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Genesis GP 38-2 arrived today

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 6:25 PM

Well, I'm just not going to take mine apart. Ignorance is bliss.

I'll pay closer attention to the new GP38-2s, compare to the Athearn Ready to Run GP35 DCC ready and the two Roundhouse AC4400 DCC ready we have, noisewise.

Cant argue with argument that the quality of Proto 2000, or even 1000 is very good, but they are no longer made and never will be again, unless Walthers keeps up the quality. Waiting for Walthers to build something I like.

Alyth Yard

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 3:59 PM

Doughless
And replacements are impossible to find, —

I can vouch for that. I had to buy the whole replacement truck for about $30 just to get that worm retainer clip!

At last count I have about two-dozen "F" unit Genesis locos. Most of the recent ones run fine out of the box. About half of them I've had to completely "overhaul" the drive line. Another major problem I've run into was the poor pickup issue where the axle tip would not contact the bronze strip in the sideframe effectively insulating the wheel from contacting the pickup strip.

I've had bad motors on at least 3 of them.

 ATH_DC-motor2 by Edmund, on Flickr

Yes, that's melted solder slung off to the inside of the brush housing!

 ATH_DC-motor4 by Edmund, on Flickr

My most recent Genesis engines, SDP40-Fs and SDP-45s and a few others have been running very well.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 2:52 PM

Ringo58

I have 3 genesis locos ( GP38-2, GP7u, MP15AC and a F9) all 3 are the noisiest locos I own. Besides my P2K gp38 with cracked gears. Even my bachman GP38 is quieter. I do like the detail very much on the otherhand. I'm sure when they have a sound decoder installed when I switch to DCC I will like them more. On my small switching layout I prefer the P2Ks because of how smooth they run at low speeds

 

I have 2 GP40-2's, 2 Wisc Southern GP7u (I saw that you had one in the show me thread), 2 BNSF GP7u, 2 CNW GP9Rs, several GP40P-2s and several GP50's.

They all have the same motor and drivetrain design.  I have had issues with the GP7us and the GP40-2s, some of which are brand new releases from August 2020, and were the subject of my swap outs or exchanges, also the LED alignment problems.

Interestingly, all of the GP50-s and GP40P-2s run very quietly and were assembled flawlessley. 

I think it must be about the timing of the batches, and what employees were on vacation when some were assembled.......Confused

- Douglas

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 1:24 PM

Lastspikemike

Worm gears are particularly prone to end thrust, a characteristic exploited in the very clever and pretty much incomprehensible Torsen differential. They also will not reverse under pressure from the spur gear. 

As for bearing tolerance causing noise I wonder if the manufacturer relies on the motor bearings and flywheels to reduce or eliminate worm gear vibration? Out of balance flywheels can cause noise. I've successfully if crudely "machined" flywheels using emery cloth and the locomotive motor as a lathe. The noises caused by out of spec flywheels are lower in frequency.

 

I can't conclude that the worm gear itself being out of tolerance as being the problem.  I know that when adding thrush washers, it makes the fit too tight and the noise worse.

I think the problem could also lie with the flimsy worm gear cover that is the Genesis design.  And replacements are impossible to find, with replacements on the market being the older BB and RTR worm gear cover, which is much more robust.

I have actually seen the worm gear covers snap at the two "legs" that hold the truck into the frame.

IMO, I'm not sure that the redesigned truck of the genesis line is a real advantage over the older designed truck.

- Douglas

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Posted by Spalato68 on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 12:55 PM

Ringo,

you can try to check if the cause is the same as with my F7. To be absolutely sure, you can completely dissasemble one truck, remove worm gear and then assemble truck back. If you connect motor just to to this truck (the other truck must remain without drive from motor), you will either hear that noise you do not like is coming from truck (only motor and worm is rotating, but no gear is driven) or not. If not, then noise cause is somewhere else.

If noise is coming from truck, you can use toothpick to touch worm shaft while rotating - if cause is too big tolerance I explained, you will notice how noise changes while you gently touch worm shaft. You can even try to touch worm shaft without dissasembling the truck, but then this experiment is not precise as it can be.

If cause is too big tolerance, this can be relatively easily rectified. Of course, you must be able to differentiate between normal motor noise and any other noise (I assume your locomotives have standard iron core motor that is used in all Athearn Genesis locomotives - Roco motor, which is good motor but have some noise that is normal for iron core motors, and some of these motors are even noisier due to carbon brushes material, they squeak from time to time). 

And finnaly, here is a short video of my Athearn F7 at slow speed (flat DC), i.e. no decoder installed. I am satisfied, and certain it will run great with sound decoder (probably ESU). 

I have added another video, the same locomotive (now with shell), at higher speed. Squeaking is coming from powerpack potentiometer, it is over 30 years old PIKO made in GDR (German Democratic Republic).

Hrvoje

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Posted by Ringo58 on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 12:01 PM

I have 3 genesis locos ( GP38-2, GP7u, MP15AC and a F9) all 3 are the noisiest locos I own. Besides my P2K gp38 with cracked gears. Even my bachman GP38 is quieter. I do like the detail very much on the otherhand. I'm sure when they have a sound decoder installed when I switch to DCC I will like them more. On my small switching layout I prefer the P2Ks because of how smooth they run at low speeds

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:45 AM

- -
They also will not reverse under pressure from the spur gear. 

Yes they will, just not very well in miniature electric trains.

There was an article about building free rolling locomotives using different pitch worm gears with double helix design in Model Railroader. I have one brass locomotive that will spin the motor through the spur gear when pushed on the track, but you need to press downward for this to happen.

In the industrial world, worm gears being back-driven by the spur gear is very real, and usually dangerous. I do no know of a piece of equipment that is designed to operate this way, but I have seen it happen, most often on material elevators or lifts.

That is why all those extra safety devices are there.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 9:22 AM

Worm gears are particularly prone to end thrust, a characteristic exploited in the very clever and pretty much incomprehensible Torsen differential. They also will not reverse under pressure from the spur gear. 

As for bearing tolerance causing noise I wonder if the manufacturer relies on the motor bearings and flywheels to reduce or eliminate worm gear vibration? Out of balance flywheels can cause noise. I've successfully if crudely "machined" flywheels using emery cloth and the locomotive motor as a lathe. The noises caused by out of spec flywheels are lower in frequency.

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Tuesday, October 20, 2020 9:16 AM

selector

I saw the post as a two-edged dig, one at himself (which a great many would appreciate as good-natured, if slightly disingenuous), while others would see as the two-edged dig and somewhat less than conciliatory. 

I elected, on my own behalf, to take it as a self-dig, and am glad to see his public admission that he knows he can get under people‘s skin any time it suits him. I also appreciate the embedded “wink”.

Finally, it might be a good time to bury the hatchet, once and for all, act more conciliatory now that we see the wink, and lets get some oil on those dorsal feathers.

 

You saw the wink?

If anyone doesn't see either the wink or the odd time when I forget that my informal writing is somehow offensive feel free to say so. I have zero interest in stirring anything up.

I concede that my informal writing is nowhere near as well thought out as my professional  writing has to be. 

If I seem too assertive (type A?, Diane Keaton has a great line in Annie Hall I'm always reminded of by that phrase " that's one way to say it" ) then I recommend you ignore that post or thread. 

Or just call me out on it and then I'll know and adjust my approach. 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, October 19, 2020 1:45 PM

I don't own any Athearn Genesis products, not because I don't like Athearn, it's just fluke I guess. From what I have read on this forum, apart from their resistance to using LEDs (no pun intended) up until a few years ago, they are good products overall. The Roundhouse line is supposedly a notch below, mostly in terms of detailing.

I do have two Atlas trainman GP 38-2s that I bought within the last 5 years. They run VERY well in DCC. I haven't tried them in DC mode.

Simon 

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, October 19, 2020 12:45 PM

Doughless
I have added thrush washers, but they were too thick to solve the problem and I had little patience for trying to find or fabricate the exact dimensioned washer for a $230 loco.

Northwest Shortline:

https://nwsl.com/collections/screws?_=pf&pf_t_material=Material%3A%20Bronze

I keep a selection on hand. They have nylon, too.

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, October 19, 2020 12:34 PM

Spalato68

I have also done as you (especially earlier): from some mysterious reason, in some cases parts swapping can help. This also speaks itself on manufacturing tolerance(s), because if all parts are the same, swapping should not be the solution (except part is faulty, e.g. cracked gear). Living in Europe, it was not easy for me to return something bought in the USA. So I was finally happy when I found the cause, and then the solution. 

In past several years I started to remotor several Fleischmann locomotives, which included complete new gearbox made at home. At beginning, I did not know much about this, but wanted to try. I learned during that process beside other that gear/gearbox noise is in most cases proportional to tolerances (i.e. tight tolerance = quiet mechanism).

With my F7, too big play of worm shaft / shaft bearing inside gearbox could be easily observed - if I grabbed free part of worm shaft protruding out with tweezers, an excessive lateral movement was obvious. This movement combined with high rotation causes noise. 

 

Yes.  The parts of a drivetrain are made within tolerances.  They are not exactly the same.  Its strictly by chance that swapping out some parts tend to blend better with other parts, but it takes less than 5 minutes so its an easy experiment and fix if luck is with you.

I have added thrush washers, but they were too thick to solve the problem and I had little patience for trying to find or fabricate the exact dimensioned washer for a $230 loco. 

- Douglas

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Posted by Spalato68 on Monday, October 19, 2020 12:18 PM

I have also done as you (especially earlier): from some mysterious reason, in some cases parts swapping can help. This also speaks itself on manufacturing tolerance(s), because if all parts are the same, swapping should not be the solution (except part is faulty, e.g. cracked gear). Living in Europe, it was not easy for me to return something bought in the USA. So I was finally happy when I found the cause, and then the solution. 

In past several years I started to remotor several Fleischmann locomotives, which included complete new gearbox made at home. At beginning, I did not know much about this, but wanted to try. I learned during that process beside other that gear/gearbox noise is in most cases proportional to tolerances (i.e. tight tolerance = quiet mechanism).

With my F7, too big play of worm shaft / shaft bearing inside gearbox could be easily observed - if I grabbed free part of worm shaft protruding out with tweezers, an excessive lateral movement was obvious. This movement combined with high rotation causes noise. 

Btw, I tried a method with thrust washers (NWSL, different sizes) - it did not help, or just partially and result was not permanent - noise changed with time.  

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Posted by selector on Monday, October 19, 2020 12:07 PM

I saw the post as a two-edged dig, one at himself (which a great many would appreciate as good-natured, if slightly disingenuous), while others would see as the two-edged dig and somewhat less than conciliatory. 

I elected, on my own behalf, to take it as a self-dig, and am glad to see his public admission that he knows he can get under people‘s skin any time it suits him. I also appreciate the embedded “wink”.

Finally, it might be a good time to bury the hatchet, once and for all, act more conciliatory now that we see the wink, and lets get some oil on those dorsal feathers.

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, October 19, 2020 11:53 AM

Spalato68

During this long discussion one issue was mentioned that draw my attention. Douglas wrote that "...more often than not the Genesis locos have either a truck tower noise or a motor noise". 

Well, I can confirm both. While the motor noise is obvious - it comes from motor, the "gear tower noise" was for a long time a mystery for me. Locomotive is Athearn Genesis F7. I thought at first that this is caused because gears do not mesh properly, or there is some other issue directly related to either geometry or manufacturing tolerance related to gears/worm. 

Only recently I realised that the cause for noise is too big tolerance between worm shaft and worm shaft bearing. To be more precise: shaft has 2,36 mm in diameter, while shaft bearing has at least 2,39-2,40 mm in diameter. I say at least because even now, when I use brass rod which has 2,39 mm in diameter, I still can feel some slack between shaft and bearing. I have a screwdriver that has some 2,4 mm in diameter, I was able to pull it thru the bearing. So I expect that dimension difference is about 0,04 mm (or even more!), and that is huge. No oil no matter how "thick" can compensate that. I used brass rod because I found it first, and used it for testing purposes. Result was excellent - noise practically dissapeared. After that, I ordered steel rod with 2,4 mm in diameter (tolerance +/- 0,005 mm), and I am very curious if it can get thru shaft bearing, I still did not receive it. If yes, I will use it as permanent solution. 

Below is a picture showing new brass shaft mentioned above. As I removed the old motor and installed Maxon coreless motor, locomotive moves almost silently, and running is exceptionally smooth now. In fact, there is nothing wrong with gears/worm - they are excellent. 

But too big tolerance is not the only thing that can be improved here. The worm shaft bearing has (at least in my locomotive) too much play itself inside gearbox (made of two halves), so I glued thin styrene sheet on one side to fix that (it is barely visible as thin white line on shaft bearing edge looking up).

To compare, I tested how much "tolerance" is in one Roco locomotive - the mechanical principle of this locomotive is the same as with F7. Tolerance practically does not exist - shaft just barely can be inserted in shaft bearing, but it moves (rotates) freely, but just that, nothing more. 

The same issue I encountered with Proto Life Like E7. I do not know why such manufacturing tolerance was allowed, because it should be in fact easily avoidable during manufacturing process. 

One note: to be able to install worm on new worm shaft, I had to widen the bore in worm, because shaft dimension difference old vs new of 0,03 mm could easily cause worm to crack. 

Hrvoje

 

 

Yes, thank you for the second opinion.  I have concluded as well that the truck noise comes from the worm gear.  And when I have gotten one with a noisy gear, its always been the front truck.

Many here like to attack the problem by delving into science and math first thing.  Have at it.  And thank you.

I have gotten good results from simply swapping the rear truck worm gear with the front truck worm gear, or swapping out worm gears with other similar Genesis locos.  What cause a problem with one loco doesn't always cause a problem in another.  

Others I have simply sent back to the dealer for exchange or credit.

- Douglas

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Monday, October 19, 2020 11:45 AM

The way worm drive works that shaft tolerance would cause the worm to vibrate into and out of mesh with its spur gear depending on the thrust tolerance. The noise would likely be different running in reverse. You'd think plastic gears wouldn't resonate much but it seems they do.

Were it me modifying this I might be tempted to fit tubular sleeves on the ends of the shafts, assuming there is a product out there with thin enough tube walls. Fitting a tube with too thick  wall and then machining down just the end to fit inside the bearing filling out the clearance could also work. Trying to centre bore the worm gear oversize by 0.04 mm might be a challenge for the less than perfectly skilled. Mind you, grinding down the OD of, say, brass tubing perfectly concentrically might  be just as much of a challenge. 

Alternatively, fitting a thrust washer of appropriate thickness to each end of the shaft up against the bearing would help a great deal by preventing the worm from moving about so much. Come to think of it, tubing cut to exact length to act as a long thrust washer from the end of the worm gear to the face of the bearing might be easiest, no drilling or machining needed.

From casual observation it appears to me that  "everybody" now uses the old Athearn BB motor drive design so differences  in performance should be slight to non existent.

 

 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Spalato68 on Monday, October 19, 2020 11:00 AM

During this long discussion one issue was mentioned that draw my attention. Douglas wrote that "...more often than not the Genesis locos have either a truck tower noise or a motor noise". 

Well, I can confirm both. While the motor noise is obvious - it comes from motor, the "gear tower noise" was for a long time a mystery for me. Locomotive is Athearn Genesis F7. I thought at first that this is caused because gears do not mesh properly, or there is some other issue directly related to either geometry or manufacturing tolerance related to gears/worm. 

Only recently I realised that the cause for noise is too big tolerance between worm shaft and worm shaft bearing. To be more precise: shaft has 2,36 mm in diameter, while shaft bearing has at least 2,39-2,40 mm in diameter. I say at least because even now, when I use brass rod which has 2,39 mm in diameter, I still can feel some slack between shaft and bearing. I have a screwdriver that has some 2,4 mm in diameter, I was able to pull it thru the bearing. So I expect that dimension difference is about 0,04 mm (or even more!), and that is huge. No oil no matter how "thick" can compensate that. I used brass rod because I found it first, and used it for testing purposes. Result was excellent - noise practically dissapeared. After that, I ordered steel rod with 2,4 mm in diameter (tolerance +/- 0,005 mm), and I am very curious if it can get thru shaft bearing, I still did not receive it. If yes, I will use it as permanent solution. 

Below is a picture showing new brass shaft mentioned above. As I removed the old motor and installed Maxon coreless motor, locomotive moves almost silently, and running is exceptionally smooth now. In fact, there is nothing wrong with gears/worm - they are excellent. 

But too big tolerance is not the only thing that can be improved here. The worm shaft bearing has (at least in my locomotive) too much play itself inside gearbox (made of two halves), so I glued thin styrene sheet on one side to fix that (it is barely visible as thin white line on shaft bearing edge looking up).

To compare, I tested how much "tolerance" is in one Roco locomotive - the mechanical principle of this locomotive is the same as with F7. Tolerance practically does not exist - shaft just barely can be inserted in shaft bearing, but it moves (rotates) freely, but just that, nothing more. 

The same issue I encountered with Proto Life Like E7. I do not know why such manufacturing tolerance was allowed, because it should be in fact easily avoidable during manufacturing process. 

One note: to be able to install worm on new worm shaft, I had to widen the bore in worm, because shaft dimension difference old vs new of 0,03 mm could easily cause worm to crack. 

Hrvoje

 

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Monday, October 19, 2020 10:16 AM

And to think I'm the life of the party on the odd occasion I'm invited....rolling in the aisles they are, laughter is hard to fake you know.  

I am well aware of the controversy posting an opinion about a manufacturer generates. It is unavoidable though. Railroaders have strong opinions, especially the ones who are wrong.

What I have found is that a consensus usually does arise and I benefitted from that before I plunged in and bought a bunch of used DC or "DCC" converted stuff. Strangely, it isn't too difficult to separate the fly **** from the pepper here.

I ended up with only one duff locomotive out of more than a dozen I bought.

Proto 1000 and 2000 are superb imho. I only hope Walthers keeps that up. I have yet to buy a Walthers locomotive.   

Intermountain F7 set plus additional B unit, looked too good to pass up. They perform as reported, smooth runners with weirdly low top speed but good pulling power (said to be gearing, which makes perfect sense). 

Bachmann Spectrum  or current which are basically close to Spectrum level are good or bad, never in between. My duff Santa Fe will not stop derailing. Mind you it looks like its been through the wars. At least the DCC conversion works. Perhaps it just won't run on 22" radius, I'll see once I get my new layout runnable. That really is going to be 24" minimum radius.

My two Consolidations are very good once I bypassed the Digitrax hack job DCC install. The guy who did that bypassed the lighting and threw away the tender truck pickups. I can see not connecting those if you don't know how but why throw them away ? Why cut the headlight wire off right at the tender connector? On both units. Sigh.

A new (and quite expensive) Bachmann Ten Wheeler runs and looks really  good but the nearly new 4-4-0 of similar vintage just isn't very good at all. The DCC is good but the tender just will not stay railed.

I have a Bowser SD 40 on order which is "delayed due to manufacturer issues." I'm rather looking forward to that since Bowser remains well regarded here.

I have a Genesis GP9 on order which I look forward to comparing with my Proto 2000 GP9 III which is very, very good.

And then there's Rapido and it's Royal Hudson which is what sucked me back in like a tide rip and inflicted my, some say, peculiar writing style on you all.

Not my fault. If the advice advice on this forum had been no good I'd be elsewhere.

Keep it up, please. There must be hundreds of hobbyists doing what I did and using the information wisely. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, October 19, 2020 4:45 AM

Lastspikemike

At the risk of generating controversy, which I studiously eschew as everone knows, 

This is a curious statement to be thrown into a supposed discussion of Genesis diesels. Perhaps it is the OP's way of apologizing for past behavior, but if it is, it is a strange way of doing it. The opening post to this thread would have been better off without this unnecessary comment.

I have to agree with Dave and Kevin that a bad feeling still lingers about the manner in which the OP initially burst onto the scene. Let's see if time dampens this lingering feeling.

Rich

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Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Monday, October 19, 2020 12:18 AM

I have quite a few of Athearn genisis engines from the past 5-6 years and nary a problem with any of them. I can also say that about the other brands I have like scale trains, Walthers, bachmann and a few others.

Every mfg. Has made good and bad locomotives and some have made some real clunkers. I do stay away from the older engines now because I just can't rebuild them like I used to. Today's engines are mostly just wonderful to look at and run. 

If I get a bad one today I just send it back and ask for a new one or a fix. 

Dave

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, October 18, 2020 10:29 PM

tstage

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Mike bought the loco and is happy with it, but it does not take long for the Athearn bashers (or Bachmann bashers, or even Proto2000 bashers) to start telling us how good Atlas, KATO (really an N scale company who makes next to nothing in HO), Stewart, BLI and MTH are - they have to be better, they cost more.....and they have to be preordered because they make fewer of them.....

 

Actually, Sheldon, the Stewarts I was referring to are all 20-25 years old and the Atlas, mostly 15-20 years old.  Nearly all were purchased NOS off eBay and none of them were pre-ordered.  And, because they were NOS, I generally paid 30-50% off MSRP for any one of them.  Same with my Proto 2000.

Mike is entitled to his opinion on the Athearns Genesis.  He asked an open question in his original post so I answered it.  For looks I generally think Atheans are among the best - i.e. at least for the F-units and RS3s.  However, I don't have as high an opinion of them in regards to their runnability.  I wouldn't call that bashing; just stating my own experience with them.

Tom

Tom, I understand, and yes he did ask the question.

I was purposely being a little snarky myself.

Most of my fleet was purchased in similar ways, I have 140 powered locos with a dollar cost average of less than $100 each, and 40% of them are steam.

In the last 11 years, I have said more than once that it is foolish to judge these products by the brand. They all have made winners, they all make a few duds, that can often be made to run fine.

They all have strong points, they all have weak points.

I was very clear in my first response that my ONLY Genesis experiance is with seven DC powered F units which are now over 10 years old. And I am serious, they run great.

I have two older Athearn RS-3's, they run fine too, despite all the bad stuff people say?

Much better than the two BLI Mikados I had to rebuild from the frames up........

Once I got started on Proto2000 locos, I tended to stay with them because:

I run DC and they all use the same drive so they run together well.

They are Athearn clones, it is a drive I already had considerable experiance with.

And they look and run great.

And they made a LOT of stuff in my era.

 

Atlas, Kato, Stewart, all great products, but their availablity, price, features and offerings never found their way into my roster.

I am amused when some guys have said I only buy brand X or brand Y and I never by brand Z.

What if brands X and Y don't make what you want to model? (I guess that assumes you are modeling, not collecting)

And just maybe, even though they made a few duds in the past, brand Z has a great model of the loco you want?

I worked in hobby shops for a decade, I've been at this for 53 years, I don't have much really bad to say about any of the products out there.

Sheldon

 

    

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, October 18, 2020 10:03 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Mike bought the loco and is happy with it, but it does not take long for the Athearn bashers (or Bachmann bashers, or even Proto2000 bashers) to start telling us how good Atlas, KATO (really an N scale company who makes next to nothing in HO), Stewart, BLI and MTH are - they have to be better, they cost more.....and they have to be preordered because they make fewer of them.....

Actually, Sheldon, the Stewarts I was referring to are all 20-25 years old and the Atlas, mostly 15-20 years old.  Nearly all were purchased NOS off eBay and none of them were pre-ordered.  And, because they were NOS, I generally paid 30-50% off MSRP for any one of them.  Same with my Proto 2000.

Mike is entitled to his opinion on the Athearns Genesis.  He asked an open question in his original post so I answered it.  For looks I generally think Atheans are among the best - i.e. at least for the F-units and RS3s.  However, I don't have as high an opinion of them in regards to their runnability.  I wouldn't call that bashing; just stating my own experience with them.

Tom

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, October 18, 2020 9:29 PM

FlattenedQuarter

So I guess National Lampoon and MAD Magazine didn't translate well?
I quickly perused Lastspikemikes 10 most recent posts and didn't see anything snarkier, more opinionated or less tolerant than anybody else's. I think I did see something about glass houses though.

 

Those publications worked because you knew when you picked it up, what you were getting into.....

Assisted by artwork.......

And with simple well known cultural references.......

Not exactly the same as an online forum where at least some readers are here for somewhat more serious conversation.

I pick up on most of Mike's comments, but I have taken issue with his insistence on repeating false technical information, or even posting it the first time if he was not really familiar with the science/engineering.

I have no problem with snarky, I'm snarky now and then too.

Some things are opinion, and some things are engineering facts.

My response to this thread was not in agreement or disagreement with Mikes recent purchase experiance, but it is my typical response to most any "brand bashing" responses.

Mike bought the loco and is happy with it, but it does not take long for the Athearn bashers (or Bachmann bashers, or even Proto2000 bashers) to start telling us how good Atlas, KATO (really an N scale company who makes next to nothing in HO), Stewart, BLI and MTH are - they have to be better, they cost more.....and they have to be preordered because they make fewer of them.....

Everybody in this hobby today owes thanks to Athearn, LifeLike, Roundhouse, Walthers, Bachmann, Atlas, Bowser and a few others for all they have done over many decades to bring this hobby to where it is.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    March 2020
  • 47 posts
Posted by FlattenedQuarter on Sunday, October 18, 2020 9:00 PM

So I guess National Lampoon and MAD Magazine didn't translate well?
I quickly perused Lastspikemikes 10 most recent posts and didn't see anything snarkier, more opinionated or less tolerant than anybody else's. I think I did see something about glass houses though.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 9,729 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, October 18, 2020 8:21 PM

Lastspikemike

Not sarcasm. Irony, yes, but definitely not sarcastic. Mind you, the secret to successful use of sarcasm is concealment of the sarcasm.

Still a simple post generated extensive controversy.

I did notice in one didactic post the connecting of controversy with some kind of personal attack which is revealing.  

It seems I must run my new Genesis more extensively before forming an opinion. Although, the identical model I've been running for weeks now impresses me identically.

I agree that the best value in running quality from Athearn is their roundhouse line. 

 

Irony and sarcasm often do not translate well to the written word........

Sheldon 

    

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 12,279 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, October 18, 2020 8:15 PM

Lastspikemike
I have not deliberately offended anybody.

That doesn't change the fact that you have offended several people, some deeply. You seem oblivious to the impact that your printed word has had on some people. Recently there was a flurry of PMs between several members who were upset by the way you state things. Several requests were made to the Moderators to address the situation.

If you are getting this much flak perhaps you need to rethink the way you state things. You claim that your statements are "ironic" but many people are not seeing them that way. At the very least, start using the emoticons. That's what they're there for.Confused

Again, with respect,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 9,729 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, October 18, 2020 8:11 PM

None of my locomotive fleet has been recently purchased.......

The only Genesis locos I have are EMD F units, seven of them. They are DC, they run very nice.

I can offer no other experiances with Athearn Genesis diesels, I have been inactive in the local group around here for a while, and don't recall any particular opinions or observations from others about other Genesis diesels.

I do have one of the infamous Genesis 2-8-2's that so many people like to hate on. Admittedly they had some problems. I had two, sold one, one of the very few things I ever sold off.

The other one runs fine - now, like Dr Wayne I disassembled it and added all sorts of weight. It has never cracked the drive gear.

Back to diesels.

I model 1954, the only Genesis diesels that fit my era are the F units and the GP7/GP9.

My roster was full of Proto2000 GP units long before Athearn offered the Genesis GP locos.

Most of my diesel fleet is pre Walthers Proto2000, they all run great, after some gear replacements and sometimes a lighting board rewiring. It is a pretty big list - ALCO FA/FB's, ALCO PA's, ALCO S2's, EMD BL2's, EMD GP7's, EMD SD9's, EMD E8's, etc, lots of each in most cases, about 65 powered units in all from this brand.   

Again remember my disclaimer - all my locos are DC, no decoders, no sound.

The rest of my diesels are mostly Intermountain EMD F units and FP units, they run great as well.

Despite my love of EMD F units, I don't own any Stewart/Bowser F units. I know they run well, but the lack of detail on the original RTR versions, and the need t find the "version" shell in undecorated, nearly always sent me to Genesis and Intermountain for F units.

I have a few Bachmann diesels, just the GE switchers, 44 ton, 70 ton, and few other odds and ends from other brands.

I don't own any Atlas locos, the few they have in my era never seemed "available" when I was shopping.

My only Walthers locos are a Walthers Proto set of C&O F units, they are nice. 

I don't own any BLI or MTH diesels. BLI diesels alway look sparse on detail to me. I don't even know if MTH ever made anything that would fit my roster, nor do I care.....

Maybe if I used DCC, or modeled a different era, I would understand some of the complaints about some of these products, but I don't, so I don't.

And then there are the steam locos.........

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    June 2020
  • 991 posts
Posted by Lastspikemike on Sunday, October 18, 2020 7:35 PM

Not sarcasm. Irony, yes, but definitely not sarcastic. Mind you, the secret to successful use of sarcasm is concealment of the sarcasm.

Still a simple post generated extensive controversy.

I did notice in one didactic post the connecting of controversy with some kind of personal attack which is revealing.  

It seems I must run my new Genesis more extensively before forming an opinion. Although, the identical model I've been running for weeks now impresses me identically.

I agree that the best value in running quality from Athearn is their roundhouse line. 

Alyth Yard

Canada

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,784 posts
Posted by csxns on Sunday, October 18, 2020 11:23 AM

SeeYou190
I have never seen a Scale-Trains locomotive in operation.

I have several Scale Trains locos and several Athearn Genesis locos and i run DC and i can say the Athearn Genesis run better that the Scale trains.

Russell

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