Foe me i had been into modeling in HO scale for almost 30 years on and off. To me HO scale was the perfect compromise between detail and size given my avaliable space in which to build a layout. In the last 8 or 9 years my family and myself were sort of forced into a much smaller space to live....Actually we went from a 4 bedroom, 2.5 car garage house in the suburbs into a 3 bedroom mobile home in the country due to the plant i worked for selling out to a buyer overseas. Anyways, this is what got me into modeling N scale. Thinking i could still have a decent size layout just in a smaller space. I started with the 5'x9' Salt Lake Route layout that was featured in MRR Magazine back in 2000 or 2001 i think. After building that in one of the spare bedrooms i realized that it just wasnt exciting enough for me so i decided i was going to build a larger layout but still stick with N scale. I purchased a prebuilt 12'x20' gabled roof building and finished it with insulation, drywall, electrical etc. Now its been almost 2 years since i began building my "Dream" layout and i still have a long way to go. I find myself constantly running to my local hobby shop to either purchase something or ordering something. As for what i might need, well thats a long list. I have my benchwork built as well as the main lines laid but im still having trouble. My biggest mistake was rushing. I was never any good at drawing out a track plan to scale or even desigining a tracl plan that was operational so i purchased Anyrail to help. I ended up coming up with a plan that after many edits some of you actually said it looked alright. After many hours of working on it i find myself back at a stand still lol. Like i said, i rushed to get trains running without double checking everything and now i have a couple of spots that looked good on the plan but dont want to fit as they should. As i said, this is entorely my fault for getting in a hurry but like many of you, i love this hobby with a passion. For me a model railroad is a magical place. A place to go to get away and escape. Its magical and always has been for many reasons. In the years past i was always accused by my wife of wasting too much money on trains. She was correct, it is an addiction and i find myself weal when it comes to modelling. Now that im older i make wiser purchases but i still find myself picking up cars or cabooses etc. just because i dont have one like it. I will eventually get my railroad up and running but i find everyday that i go out into my train building that i need something. As for rolling stock i have 8 locomotives and roughly 30 to 40 various rolling stock. I have most of what industries i wanted on my layout although im considering adding more for more operational features. In hind site i wish i had stayed with HO scale due to me getting a little older and my eyes not being what they were 30 years ago but right now i have too much time and money invested in N scale to just give up. As some of you know, you have helped me a lot to get to this point in my layout and i always appreciate it.....As this journey continues i hope you guys will always have the patience with me that you have had up until now......Have a great day!
DoughlessSame here. While I don't really need anything train or structure wise, I need mainly post 2000's vehicles.
I think I will still continue to buy any new vehicle released that fits in with 1954 even thoufgh I do not need any.
Having a good variety of vehicles to pose makes model photography much more fun.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Same here. While I don't really need anything train or structure wise, I need mainly post 2000's vehicles. I have never really looked that hard for them yet, so I don't know who makes the best selection of modern vehicles.
- Douglas
Back to topic, I could use some late 90's to mid 2000 vehicles. I have lots of scenes to detail.
The list Jim posted looks interesting ( on another thread). I haven't on the ARF for a while. Actually, I haven't been on any forums for awhile!
Mike.
My You Tube
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Wow, I can't imagine living someplace like that, with all those "rules". What if you just want to be cool while you work on your car? Oh, I bet you can't "work" on your car either? Sorry, I was not clear enough. The issue was not the air conditioning in the garage, it was the insulated wall that made the garage not a garage anymore. When I moved to Cape Coral in 1982, you could not park a truck in a driveway, nothing could park on grass, landscaping had to be perfect, you could not work on a vehicle at your house, and there was a very powerful noise ordinance. When I bought this house in 1999, code compliance was still very strict. Almost all of these restrictions are gone now, and the degradation of the community was predictable. Cape Coral decided that instead of being like Naples, being like Lehigh Acres was OK. Sorry about the local references, Naples is a wealthy community, and Lehigh Acres is not. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Wow, I can't imagine living someplace like that, with all those "rules". What if you just want to be cool while you work on your car? Oh, I bet you can't "work" on your car either?
Sorry, I was not clear enough.
The issue was not the air conditioning in the garage, it was the insulated wall that made the garage not a garage anymore.
When I moved to Cape Coral in 1982, you could not park a truck in a driveway, nothing could park on grass, landscaping had to be perfect, you could not work on a vehicle at your house, and there was a very powerful noise ordinance.
When I bought this house in 1999, code compliance was still very strict.
Almost all of these restrictions are gone now, and the degradation of the community was predictable.
Cape Coral decided that instead of being like Naples, being like Lehigh Acres was OK. Sorry about the local references, Naples is a wealthy community, and Lehigh Acres is not.
When I first read your post I was thinking that the city probably wants garages to be able to be used as garages. With no basements, there is little place to store junk other than the driveway or the back yard if you convert your garage to non-garage space. With houses being less than 20 feet apart, a certain level of tidiness has to be assured in order for everybody's property values to remain stable, IMO.
Wonder if that same restriction applies to a third garage stall?
The wife and I are strongly considering moving to SW FL in about 5 years. Cape Coral is on the radar, but Venice/Nokomis looks like the likely landing spot. Somewhere off the coast, not too $$$.
Sorry for the OT comment.
Well, I understand that some people like to live in a sterile "perfect" environment like that. But here, how much your house costs, or how much money you have is not really linked to strict HOA rules.
It fact sone times it is just the opposite, moderately priced condos and townhouse communities can have the strictest rules around here.
Rich people do what they want, keep their property perfect or have a yard full of old farm tractors, or a 10 car garage where they restore classic cars.
Much of our land is zoned agricultural with very few restrictions, or zoned rural residential with only the most basic guidelines/restrictions.
I have 2.3 acres, I park and drive on MY grass all the time, and I'm planning to build a nice sized detached garage......
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALWow, I can't imagine living someplace like that, with all those "rules". What if you just want to be cool while you work on your car? Oh, I bet you can't "work" on your car either?
SeeYou190 thomas81z If not i will just air condition the 25x25 garage & do it that way . My firend Randy air conditioned his garage for his N scale layout. Then the city popped him for a violation. It turns out all houses in Cape Coral built after a certain date are required to have a garage, and air conditioning the garage violates that requirement. That was 10 years ago. I do not know if zoning has changed since then. He had to take down the insulated wall behind the garage door, and then the air conditioner was useless in the warm months. His N scale NORFOLK SOUTHERN empire became a 4 month a year layout. -Kevin
thomas81z If not i will just air condition the 25x25 garage & do it that way .
My firend Randy air conditioned his garage for his N scale layout. Then the city popped him for a violation. It turns out all houses in Cape Coral built after a certain date are required to have a garage, and air conditioning the garage violates that requirement.
That was 10 years ago. I do not know if zoning has changed since then.
He had to take down the insulated wall behind the garage door, and then the air conditioner was useless in the warm months. His N scale NORFOLK SOUTHERN empire became a 4 month a year layout.
Wow, I can't imagine living someplace like that, with all those "rules". What if you just want to be cool while you work on your car? Oh, I bet you can't "work" on your car either?
Kevin, sorry for your construction woes, hope it works out.
We have neighborhoods with strict HOA rules, but most housing here is not like that. And even the three incorporated towns do not have many rules or restrictions beyond the normal county laws.
So happy to be living on my quiet two acres in the rural country side.
thomas81zIf not i will just air condition the 25x25 garage & do it that way .
SeeYou190 thomas81z l, im in nw cape & since i dont have a basement <SNIP> you still in cape ? I think you were responding to me. Yes, I live in NE Cape near NFMHS and Donaldson LL Park. No basement either (no one on the Cape has one), but if I ever get this house done, I will have an 11 by 22 train room. -Kevin
thomas81z l, im in nw cape & since i dont have a basement <SNIP> you still in cape ?
I think you were responding to me.
Yes, I live in NE Cape near NFMHS and Donaldson LL Park.
No basement either (no one on the Cape has one), but if I ever get this house done, I will have an 11 by 22 train room.
i can reduce the heartbeats in this house i might be able to get a room for
a layout if not i will just air condition the 25x25 garage & do it that way .
what i have now is just basically a test bed . nice knowing there is someone else in cape that models . i live off of nelson & diplomat
rrebellPut it in yourself or get another contractor.
I cannot install these myself because the window opening size is changing.
I don't want to get into too many of the ugly details here, but since this window is changing the front elevation (street view) of the house, there are extra hurdles in the way with the city.
Hurricane requirements add more messes to the mix.
I do not want to enter into an adversarial relationship with this contractor unless there is no other option.
Don't want to discuss it any further on here, my blood is heating up!
Put it in yourself or get another contractor.
DoughlessThe type of layout he's going to build shortly (we hope shortly);
I don't know.
I just got off the phone with the contractor about the front window, and I am still getting the run-around on a completion date. Three promised dates have come and gone.
Pretty much everything is "back to normal" in Florida now, all restrictions are lifted, so I am not buying the pandemic excuse any longer.
The whole plan for the train room involves moving the master bedroom, which requires changing one window size so a closet can go in. If this does not get done, I don't know what I will do. I have already changed a significant part of the house interior for this plan, and now I am getting very frustrated.
Doughless PRR8259 said: Once you actually build a layout you will find out what can run on it and what can't. There will be "surprises" that will limit what you can run. I guarantee it. (Says the world's most interesting model train guy...) For instance: all those 86' and 89' cars advertised to handle 22" and 24" radii do not. They just don't at least not actually coupled together. The Intermountain 'racks bump each other and break ladders loose at 30" radius if you stop hard or else backup. Solution: put an Atlas 'rack between them. But do NOT couple an Atlas 'rack to some Tangent 86' boxcars. The ones with extended draft gear derail on a slight 34" radius reverse curve that I have. (Extended draft gear = end of car cushioning...incl. but not limited to NYC). Oh--do not couple Tangent 86' boxcars end to end on 34" or less reverse curve, or on 30" or less radius because they have limited coupler swing and may derail, especially the NYC. Also, do not couple Tangent 86' boxcar to Genesis F89F, or it (the flat) may derail at 34" reverse curve. Then once you build said layout stuff will become available that you didn't know you "needed". Some will run well on your layout, and some will not. Then you might end up with surplus to sell, like me. I think there is a valid point embedded here. That if you're inexperienced with the type of layout you are building, or with equipment you have never purchased before, you can end up buying what you think you need, only to find out that it doesn't work as intended or even as advertised. I don't think this point applies to Kevin, because Kevin has experience in building the type of layout he's going to build shortly (we hope shortly); but for a newbie or for someone changing themes, stocking up on product that has never been experienced before could result in wasted effort and money. I once bought a highly detailed 50 foot boxcar with all of the high priced factory underbody details installed. Upon trying to negotiate my 22 inch radius non visible turnback loop, it struggled to move since the inside of the wheels rubbed on the details. Now, there was never an advertisment that the 50 foot car would run on 22 inch radius curves, but I made the assumption based upon what I think is an industry standard for a 50 foot boxcar. I could see some of these highly detailed long cars banging their details amongst others when running in a train on a radius curve that its advertised to run on.....which it might, by itself. I have never cared for passenger cars or the 86 foot Athearn boxcar, but my impression is that back in the day they would negotiate sharp curves in a train, but possibly had exceptionally long shanked couplers to facilitate this, or truck mounted couplers. Coupler length would be unprototypical for the highly detailed collector quality cars today, so I can see where John may have gotten his recent experience. Not that prototypically accurate details such as body mounted couplers are a priority for modelers, its just that those highly detailed cars place detail accuracy above operation, IMO. Not to open another can of worms, but accumulating collector quality product with the intent to operate them on a real layout without sufficient experience with the products might have unforseen consequences.
PRR8259 said:
I think there is a valid point embedded here. That if you're inexperienced with the type of layout you are building, or with equipment you have never purchased before, you can end up buying what you think you need, only to find out that it doesn't work as intended or even as advertised.
Now that is a well reasoned opinion that does not make broad generalizations about "everyone" or "always".
Trainman440 doctorwayne PRR8259 Sheldon-- My initial post above was partly in JEST and was NOT meant to be that SERIOUS. YOU took ISSUE with it, as ALWAYS is the case! Why is it that you ALWAYS have a problem with EVERYTHING that I EVER say on ANY Topic? I'm out. I don't see how you'd consider that Sheldon took issue with anything you said (unless it was something that I didn't see in your deleted posts). Simply put, each of you have your own plans and aims and are pursuing them in your own ways and interests. Wayne Lol thing is, from what I've gathered over the years(yes, years), the Sheldon vs user forum posts are usually: someone offers an opinion of their own, Sheldon offers his thought of how useless and invalid that opinion is, and how he doesn't care for it since it doesnt apply to him....since his layout is very well built, and has no interest in DCC, and how he is satisfied with his model's performance and detail. And he refuses to back off until his "opponent" eventually gives up. Which, of course, is his opinion, and as hes said before "im not here to make friends". ...so I guess it works out. Let's be honest here, I have no definetive evidence of this, as I dont bookmark all these forums. Just what seems to be the pattern, to me. Though Im sure Sheldon will comment on how wrong I am lol. Charles
doctorwayne PRR8259 Sheldon-- My initial post above was partly in JEST and was NOT meant to be that SERIOUS. YOU took ISSUE with it, as ALWAYS is the case! Why is it that you ALWAYS have a problem with EVERYTHING that I EVER say on ANY Topic? I'm out. I don't see how you'd consider that Sheldon took issue with anything you said (unless it was something that I didn't see in your deleted posts). Simply put, each of you have your own plans and aims and are pursuing them in your own ways and interests. Wayne
PRR8259 Sheldon-- My initial post above was partly in JEST and was NOT meant to be that SERIOUS. YOU took ISSUE with it, as ALWAYS is the case! Why is it that you ALWAYS have a problem with EVERYTHING that I EVER say on ANY Topic? I'm out.
I don't see how you'd consider that Sheldon took issue with anything you said (unless it was something that I didn't see in your deleted posts). Simply put, each of you have your own plans and aims and are pursuing them in your own ways and interests.
Wayne
Lol thing is, from what I've gathered over the years(yes, years), the Sheldon vs user forum posts are usually:
someone offers an opinion of their own, Sheldon offers his thought of how useless and invalid that opinion is, and how he doesn't care for it since it doesnt apply to him....since his layout is very well built, and has no interest in DCC, and how he is satisfied with his model's performance and detail. And he refuses to back off until his "opponent" eventually gives up.
Which, of course, is his opinion, and as hes said before "im not here to make friends".
...so I guess it works out.
Let's be honest here, I have no definetive evidence of this, as I dont bookmark all these forums. Just what seems to be the pattern, to me. Though Im sure Sheldon will comment on how wrong I am lol.
Charles
John basically said "everybody" is going to have "problems" similar to his at some point, and that nobody is a well prepared as Kevin claims he is.
Yes, I challenged that idea.
Yes, I explain what I do and why, that does not suggest others are wrong or should do what I do.
Yes, I failed politically correct.
John accused me of disagreeing with "EVERY" post of his. A quick review will show dozens of his posts which I had zero response to, zero interest in and zero opinion about.
Over the years John has put some pretty "strong" opinions on this forum as well.....
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
ATLANTIC CENTRALPRR8259
...if you make a slight "oops" gluing down superelevated track and end up with a superelevation transition (of cross slope) that is a bit too fast, you still can find that some equipment will derail as the superelevation changes too quickly (in one direction), that actually runs everywhere else. Since it is backwards from my normal running direction on the mainline (downhill into a curve) it is not really a problem except once in awhile when I desire to backup.[/quote]
If you made a mistake when adding superelevation to the curve, and it now causes problems, why not simply redo it? Properly done, superelevation will work just fine, no matter the direction of travel.Pretty well all of my layout's major curves are on grades and are superelevated, and because the track is on cut-out 3/4" plywood atop risers from the open grid benchwork, it was very easy to do. This also includes a superelevated "S"-bend.
I don't have any really large locomotives...the largest with a rigid driver wheelbase is a Bachmann USRA-ish light Mountain (modified somewhat and known as a Mohawk, though). I also have a Bachmann USRA 2-6-6-2, also modified, but it's not really a big locomotive as far as articulateds are concerned.
Everything on the layout goes through those superelevated curves, in either direction, without difficulty, the longest cars being 80' heavyweight passenger cars.
I am, however, somewhat curious about your reasons for deleting your posts. It's easy for respondents to "cherry-pick" for parts to quote (as did I, but only because I wanted to specifically address the superelevation issue).
I'm wondering now what else of interest might I have missed.
PRR8259Sheldon-- My initial post above was partly in JEST and was NOT meant to be that SERIOUS. YOU took ISSUE with it, as ALWAYS is the case! Why is it that you ALWAYS have a problem with EVERYTHING that I EVER say on ANY Topic? I'm out.
I don't see how you'd consider that Sheldon took issue with anything you said (unless it was something that I didn't see in your deleted posts). Simply put, each of you have your own plans and aims and are pursuing them in your own ways and interests.My interests are different from both your's and Sheldon's, but I'm still having fun in my own ways, and I'd hope that both of you are, too.
This is a place to share our experiences in model railroading, both the good ones and those not so good. Need help?...good place to get it. Need to vent about where you screwed-up?...good place to get helpful suggestions. Need to complain about somebody else?...I think that's not generally something to be done here, as it's much easier to simply avoid whomever might be bugging you. You aren't required to rise to the bait.
thomas81zl, im in nw cape & since i dont have a basement <SNIP> you still in cape ?
I have plenty of freight car kits on hand, and aside little things like Intermountain Code88 wheels, Sergent couplers, some detail parts, I'm pretty set these days it feels like.
Alvie
Sheldon--
My initial post above was partly in JEST and was NOT meant to be that SERIOUS.
YOU took ISSUE with it, as ALWAYS is the case!
Why is it that you ALWAYS have a problem with EVERYTHING that I EVER say on ANY Topic?
I'm out.
PRR8259 Sheldon-- Again: nobody can design for all situations. It is easy to miss stuff (in most cases I can repair it and don't glue it in place till fully tested): The derailments due to superelevation transition being too fast at one point on my layout, only when backing up on a curve, apply to ALL ho diesels. While the glue was wet, I put a book on the section of track, and somehow managed to cause the superelevated curve to be too flat at a point (to transition too quickly). I could shim it--but ALL that accomplishes is moving the point at which engines derail. I can't eliminate it without tearing up (and destroying) some very nice track (Kato) and making a mess. All the steam engines on hand are actually fine, as are ALL rolling stock. All that equipment can actually move in reverse through the superelevated curve. Loosening the truck mounting screws just a little on long (86' and 89') freight cars does wonders for tracking performance on the layout even on a superelevated curve. So far as those whose rosters have 80% 50' or less cars--if all my rolling stock was the same, my layout would be "perfect" too. 60' and 65' cars are no trouble at all. It is generally at the extremes that limitations become apparent. Just try coupling a Tangent Chessie I-18 Caboose or an Athearn Genesis SP baywindow caboose to an 89' car and run it on a whole railroad, with the occasional slight vertical kink and see what happens! It's not always good. Note: Even my friends who come over to operate are bringing modern equipment including BIG stuff--the same large boxcars, autoracks, and pig flats as what I have. Steam? The smallest engines are challenger 4-6-6-4's. The little 4-8-4's are gone. My friend just brought over a PRR T-1 to run (I think actually slightly longer than a challenger). Perhaps we have issues with "size" or inadequacy, but we LIKE the big stuff. So I have to make it possible. John
Again: nobody can design for all situations. It is easy to miss stuff (in most cases I can repair it and don't glue it in place till fully tested):
The derailments due to superelevation transition being too fast at one point on my layout, only when backing up on a curve, apply to ALL ho diesels. While the glue was wet, I put a book on the section of track, and somehow managed to cause the superelevated curve to be too flat at a point (to transition too quickly). I could shim it--but ALL that accomplishes is moving the point at which engines derail. I can't eliminate it without tearing up (and destroying) some very nice track (Kato) and making a mess.
All the steam engines on hand are actually fine, as are ALL rolling stock. All that equipment can actually move in reverse through the superelevated curve. Loosening the truck mounting screws just a little on long (86' and 89') freight cars does wonders for tracking performance on the layout even on a superelevated curve.
So far as those whose rosters have 80% 50' or less cars--if all my rolling stock was the same, my layout would be "perfect" too. 60' and 65' cars are no trouble at all. It is generally at the extremes that limitations become apparent. Just try coupling a Tangent Chessie I-18 Caboose or an Athearn Genesis SP baywindow caboose to an 89' car and run it on a whole railroad, with the occasional slight vertical kink and see what happens! It's not always good.
Note: Even my friends who come over to operate are bringing modern equipment including BIG stuff--the same large boxcars, autoracks, and pig flats as what I have. Steam? The smallest engines are challenger 4-6-6-4's. The little 4-8-4's are gone. My friend just brought over a PRR T-1 to run (I think actually slightly longer than a challenger).
Perhaps we have issues with "size" or inadequacy, but we LIKE the big stuff.
So I have to make it possible.
John
John,
Whatever......
As we have discussed before, you are actually in a different hobby than me.
I have big steam locos, Allegheny's, N&W Class A's, Y-3's, EM-1's, eastern locos that fit the roads, region, and era I model. In a proportion that fits a prototypical roster, which means I have many more Mikados, Consolidations, Pacifics, Mountains, and a few of those relatively rare Northerns (Greenbiers on the C&O and ACR).
My friends don't/never have brough over large amounts of equipment to run here, I don't drag my trains all over the tristate area to the layouts I regularly visit.
I don't use KATO track.........
I've never had the problems you describe, for a brief time I modeled the 70's, I had some long freight cars (actually still have them, a small group of stuff that does not fit the current theme).
You always seem to have some sort of problem, and you seem to have a problem with people who don't complain about problems (people like me and Kevin).
Why was it necessary to challenge Kevin's position that he does not need anything, and that he is well organized and prepared to build his new layout?
I was in a hobby shop just the other day and could not find anything to buy. I have a want list, they did not have anything on my list.
Just a little more home remodeling and my layout construction will begin, and I will not be on here complaining about anything.
I will be showing my work and having fun.
Wish I was a organized as you lol, im in nw cape & since i dont have a basement,so the place I worked at had a ton of lumber so i dragged it home everyday & bought sheets of mdo plywood from lowes since its so close.
not much cash outlay there , my issue is articulated steam 30 big boys , well diffrent story$$$$$$$$$$.
i keep tearing down & rebuilding cheyenne lol. what is your road based on . you still in cape ?
deleted - is quoted below - this way saves length
PRR8259 Sheldon-- That's great for those who might have 1000 or 1500 square feet. Some of us just don't. To be clear: my curves and tunnels will clear every engine I have ever attempted to use, including Big Boys and 2-8-8-4's. It's not like I didn't design for them, and I was generally following Armstrong's book. However that book does actually pre-date some of the rolling stock that you can buy today AND if you make a slight "oops" gluing down superelevated track and end up with a superelevation transition (of cross slope) that is a bit too fast, you still can find that some equipment will derail as the superelevation changes too quickly (in one direction), that actually runs everywhere else. Since it is backwards from my normal running direction on the mainline (downhill into a curve) it is not really a problem except once in awhile when I desire to backup. I put in the small 34" radius reverse curve when adjusting other track alignment issues--improvements so that some ancient brass locos will run. Didn't have any long cars at the time to test, either. Hmmm--to your next point--what would I want to run on my layout?: Why everything that ever existed in real life, of course. So compromises must be made. John
That's great for those who might have 1000 or 1500 square feet.
Some of us just don't.
To be clear: my curves and tunnels will clear every engine I have ever attempted to use, including Big Boys and 2-8-8-4's. It's not like I didn't design for them, and I was generally following Armstrong's book.
However that book does actually pre-date some of the rolling stock that you can buy today AND if you make a slight "oops" gluing down superelevated track and end up with a superelevation transition (of cross slope) that is a bit too fast, you still can find that some equipment will derail as the superelevation changes too quickly (in one direction), that actually runs everywhere else. Since it is backwards from my normal running direction on the mainline (downhill into a curve) it is not really a problem except once in awhile when I desire to backup.
I put in the small 34" radius reverse curve when adjusting other track alignment issues--improvements so that some ancient brass locos will run. Didn't have any long cars at the time to test, either.
Hmmm--to your next point--what would I want to run on my layout?: Why everything that ever existed in real life, of course. So compromises must be made.
Super elevation transistions are a good reason to use sprung equalized trucks like I use on nearly all freight equipment.
I'm sure the radius, turnouts and clearances on my layout will allow virtually everything out there.
But I will likely never own most of the stuff that has challenged your layout.
I have never owned a Big Boy, doubt I ever will.
Large curves are not just about long cars. They are about working diaphragms that stay touching, they are about trouble free operation of long trains, and they are about realistic appearance.
And because my layout is around the room, most of the curves are viewed from the inside where they look even better.
dknelson It was only once I determined that there was nothing more I really needed that I started to buy bags full of stuff at big train shows. ... without a want list (and even more crucially, without a "have already" list) more of what you see strikes a responsive chord. That is how I ended up with three of the Walthers bulk oil dealer kits. Conclusion: it is very important to always need something, or you'll go broke on impulse purchases. Stated another way, big train shows and well stocked hobby shops are the Devil's own spawn, and I love them so. Dave Nelson
It was only once I determined that there was nothing more I really needed that I started to buy bags full of stuff at big train shows.
...
without a want list (and even more crucially, without a "have already" list) more of what you see strikes a responsive chord. That is how I ended up with three of the Walthers bulk oil dealer kits.
Conclusion: it is very important to always need something, or you'll go broke on impulse purchases. Stated another way, big train shows and well stocked hobby shops are the Devil's own spawn, and I love them so.
Dave Nelson
Actually, not having needs or lists has made train shows more fun for me. I just wander along buying whatever strikes my fancy. My spending control is I bring cash, if and when that's gone then I'm done buying. Some shows I don't buy anything, but going with my middle son who is into 3 rail O gauge makes it worthwhile anyway. Besides, I enjoy looking at the layouts.
I'll be glad when this virus is under control and I can go to the shows again.
Paul
PRR8259Once you actually build a layout you will find out what can run on it and what can't. There will be "surprises" that will limit what you can run. I guarantee it. (Says the world's most interesting model train guy...)
John, I have a very selected collection of rolling stock. 80% of my freight cars are 40 feet long, only two are longer than 50 feet (both gondolas).
I have set up obstacle courses using Kato Unitrack, and EVERY piece of equipment must be able to pass through a 22" radius S-Curve with no tangent, forward and backward, while coupled to a 89 foot boxcar on one end and a 32 foot caboose on the other.
My passenger equipment is all scale length Rivarossi equipment that runs just fine through 22 inch radius curves going forward. I will never back a passenger train, and I have zero interest in passenger train operations.
All my locomotives will handle 18 inch radius without problems; any that will not get demoted to photo-prop service only. My Bachman 2-8-8-4 will negotiate an 18" radius S curve at low speed, but it looks very silly doing it.
PRR8259Then once you build said layout stuff will become available that you didn't know you "needed". Some will run well on your layout, and some will not.
In the past decade, only one product has come out that I "needed", the Fox Valley MIDLAND ROAD 40 foot round roof boxcars. I do not foresee any new product coming out that I will desire.
We will see...
ATLANTIC CENTRALKevin has built enough layouts to avoid those problems, and he models 1954, and has little or no interest in passenger equipment.
Yes, this will be the sixth version of the STRATTON AND GILLETTE, the third in HO scale, and the second in 1954. I think I have this hammered down pretty solid now.
dknelsonWhen you go with a "want list" you stalk the aisles looking for the item, blind to the other attractions before you, and then become paralyzed at the thought that having found it, it might be available for a better price elsewhere, or that you thought you saw it for a better price earlier that day. Eventually you wander everywhere twice, the better price is not to be had, and now it's sold out at where you started and nobody else has it.
Ooof, I have done that!
My wife comes with me to train shows, and she is very good at spotting the nifty items I overlook. Together we have made an excellent team.
I look for the items on my list, and she looks for the items that I did not know I wanted.
At a train show in Atlanta in 2019, she spotted a deal on some Lunde buildings I completely missed.
When you go with a "want list" you stalk the aisles looking for the item, blind to the other attractions before you, and then become paralyzed at the thought that having found it, it might be available for a better price elsewhere, or that you thought you saw it for a better price earlier that day. Eventually you wander everywhere twice, the better price is not to be had, and now it's sold out at where you started and nobody else has it.
By contrast without a want list (and even more crucially, without a "have already" list) more of what you see strikes a responsive chord. That is how I ended up with three of the Walthers bulk oil dealer kits.
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