Old Tyco rolling stock

[MisterBeasley]

Like retsignalmtr, I have a lot of old Mantua/Tyco cars with Talgo trucks. I'm particularly fond of my operating clamshell hoppers. I find it quite easy to remove the trucks and cut off the coupler bracket with a Dremel cutting wheel. Then, I take a Kadee plastic draft gear box (#232, lots of 'em for a couple of dollars) and mark the point on the car where the mounting hole is on each end. A quick hit with a drill and 2-56 tap, and I'm ready to mount the coupler in the box. I cut the little "ears" off the draft gear boxes, because they interfere with the truck rotation.

So far, I've just been replacing the trucks with the plastic wheels. On a few other cars, I've re-ground the trucks with a conical Dremel bit and put in new wheelsets.

After doing a few of these, I find it takes no more than about 10 minutes to do the whole coupler conversion on one of these. Fortunately, the car base height is almost exactly right, and the couplers need very little adjustment once they are mounted.

[Anonymous]

As a matter of fact I am following an old Jim Six article and making a usefull car out of an old Tyco-Mantua Gon. I got rid of the old cast underframe and substituted an Athearn underframe and trucks I had left over from another project. I also carved off the hand grabs and installed new wire ones, all that is left is paint and decals. Of course the KD's went in the Athearn Coupler Boxes.

Rick

[Anonymous]

P.S. I can report with some authority. With a little patientce and a good paint job. Tyco cars can turn out looking pretty good.

James

[Anonymous]

I to have several old Tyco cars as well as older Bachmann and Life-Like cars. I have a bunch of older MDC, as well as some Walthers truks. Im going to use these to retruck these cars. and body mount Kadee Couplers.

My parents have not let me have a layout and my model building has slowed to a crawl. But I still buy stuff like couplers and what not and am stock piling them for when I can. I feel that maybe if I stock pile eneugh. WHen I finally get around to building a layout, I won;t have to visit a hobby shop for a long time.

James

[rrgrassi]

The Kadee website has some insight on what works with the Tyco talgo trucks. The list all the tools needed.

I am converting mine as well since they are ones left over from childhood. Plus, the work is good practice for modifying other models as well. The Proto metal wheels work great in the Tyco trucks.

I have had problems with the plastic tabs that keep the trucks attached to the cars breaking. I fixed that problem by removing the plastic tabs, drilling a hole so that a modified Kadee draft box with the shoulder fits snugly. Use CA to attach it, then I use some sprue to plug the hole on the car, CA glue it in, let it dry, then drill and tap it for a 2-56 screw. With this learned, I am now making body mount coupkers, and removing the Talgo's for Kadee sprung trucks.

If you do not have a height guage, you can do what I did until I had one. Find a car of loco that is with in spec. Your LHS can do this, and using a couple of pieces of straight easy track, couple the cars together and look at the height. Do both ends, and make any adjustments needed like adding spacers, or filing down too high areas. When all in spec so to say, then do you final glueing and assembly work.

Enjoy the new kid! I remember when mine could fit the length of my forearm. That was in 1990.

[waltersrails]

they would work jsut not run as well as the newer stuff but they will work.

[Favrefan04]

Thanks to everybody that responded. I am now very encouraged to get them all done, and see how well they work for me. I do like the idea of using at least one or 2 of them as a test for my super detailing skills. Since I have few skills as the moment, I need everything that I can to practice on.

Thanks again everybody, I think a trip to my nearest LHS on my next payday is in order, so that I can get everything that I need for them. I will keep you all up to day on how they are turning out.

Happy Railroading everybody...

[retsignalmtr]

i have many of the older tyco cars with metal trucks, plastic wheels with metal axles and metal truck mounted coupler pockets. i also have newer tyco cars that have all plastic trucks and couplers. they are not hard to change to kaydee's at all. i used mostly #5s and some #27's if the coupler came out too low. cut off the coupler pockets on the trucks and body mount the kaydee's. the plastic trucks and wheels will be fine if you cannot afford to replace them with better wheels now.

[Anonymous]

What's a few dollars spent on something you like and cherish. Enjoy yourself. There's plenty of time for the more serious modeling endeavours when the time comes.

[AntonioFP45]

Wow Favrefan,

You got a lot of good tips here!

One good point that Rogerhnesley brings up is the Tyco item itself. For the most part, Tyco trains are toys, however some cars and locomotives do have "good potential".

One of the best examples "for years" was the Tyco GP20. [;)] Up unitl a few years ago no one else made a GP20 (or a decent looking one). The Tyco version had the correct scale width and length, though the drive was a junker. So with some modifications, the GP20 could be made to look like a top notch model. Model Railroader featured an excellent article back in the late 80s or early 90s in which a modeler did a beautiful job with one of these. He did a Union Pacific version.

Also, the green Santa Fe 50 ft. flat car with the imitation wooden deck that just about most of us over 30 have owned as newbies! With Kadee Trucks and minor underbody detailing these can look quite nice! I'm converting mine into a rusty M.O.W / Diesel shop unit.[8D][;)]

Hope all goes well!

[orsonroy]

Here's what the NEB&W website has to say about Tyco freight car models in general:

QUOTE:
The Mantua Metal Products Co. (or something like that) got started in Mantua, NJ in the 1920's. At one point, they were headed by John Tyler, and the company took the name "Tyco" from a contraction of "Tyler Co." In more recent times, there was a split between the two, with Tyco getting the toy end of the product line, and Mantua getting the more serious model railroad line.
According to Dave LeCount, Tyco went out of business, although some products wound up under the IHC banner. (He has a web site to discuss the Tyco line.)
At one point, Mantua picked up a lot of the Lindberg line of cars, really funky-end reefers, along with a high side Erie gon, and so while there was some cross-over between the two lines, there were also differences.
The Old-Time flat, box, stock, and passenger cars are still being produced under the Mantua label and are discussed under the Mantua section.

40 Foot Steel Box Car - This model is similar to the MDC and Athearn kits, being based (more or less) on the 1937 AAR box car. The Tyco car has cast on running boards, and at one point, this made me cast it aside without a second thought. Now that I've had that chance, I think I like it better than either the MDC or Athearn model, as is. I think I'd prefer cast-on running board over too-thick separate ones. (Yes, the separate ones can be replaced with thinner ones, but I'm speaking at the moment right out of the box). And the Tyco car has no silly door claws and much thinner door tracks.

Wood Reefer - This is a wood side Dreadnaught-ended cars with a raised panel roof. At first glance it is similar to the Train-Miniature one, except the Tyco has the more modern roof, a two-panel end instead of T-M's odd three panel end (but the Tyco end has the ribs too creased, almost coming to a point). The Tyco kit also has the running boards cast on. The Tyco car also has nice wood grain on the boards (although some question where wood grain should be visible, I like it on this car.)
I believe that this is actually pretty close to the PFE's R-40-10, which is what InterMountain is coming out with, and some other cars c. 1940.

50 Foot Flat Car - The car has 13 stake pockets with a fishbelly side, the same basics as the Athearn flat. I think there are differences in detailing. Richard Hendrickson said the Tyco flat, to the best of his knowledge, it is a bogus generic design with no prototype whatever. He'd be pleasantly surprised to learn otherwise.
Timothy O'Connor said the L&N and MP both had some 13 stake pocket flats approximately the same size as the Athearn model. Ben Hom said it does appear to be a fairly close knock-off of the Athearn car, minus the heavy Athearn brakestaff. The Tyco car has a separate casting for the deck, which overhangs the side (the Athearn doesn't), which I believe was a 1940's advancement (it allowed a little more width).
Hom also mentioned one version was lettered for Santa Fe, on a green body. Very strange color for the ATSF.

40 Foot Gon - This is an 11 panel gon with irregular rib spacing and a Dreadnaught end. It appears to be based on a crude drawing of a Texas & Pacific gon many years ago in Railroad Model Craftsman. (Steve Wagner said that Tyco actually offered it painted T&P.) I superdetailed, painted, and lettered it as shown here. Richard Hendrickson showed in an article how to cut down the height of the sides to model a D&H gon, and we followed this idea for our NEB&W steel gons [Model photo]. Cyril Durrenburger had an extensive article in Model Railroader on a number of kitbashing possibilities.

Quad Hopper - Tyco has, like so many other companies, copied the Athearn quad, the 1929 ARA offset car. They even copied the blue B&M scheme which I think existed only in Uncle Irv's fertile imagination. (What was in those cigars he always smoked?)

Caboose - Steve Wagner said that this is vaguely close to the PRR N8 class.

So straight from a proto modeler's website (well, proto-lance anyway), these cars aren't the worst models in the world, but they're not the best. If you dig hard enough you can find a prototype for almost every one of the body styles, and if you put enough work (and money) into them, you can come up with OK models of real cars. None of the cars are the ONLY model of that particular body style, however, so if you want a model RR that at least LOOKS like the real thing, you have other options.

If you've got the cars and are on a budget, I say keep 'em. Converting them to better wheelsets and couplers won't break the bank ($1.50 per car for Kadees, and either $2.98 for a pair of Walthers trucks with metal wheelsets OR $2.98 for a pair of Accurail truck sideframes and $2.67 for four Life Like metal wheelsets). You can also practice painting, weathering, decalling, and superdetailing these cars without destroying a higher priced car.

[rogerhensley]

Depends upon the car and the modeler as to worth. I have a Santa Fe box that has not been done by anyone else. It's a good example of a car that existed. Another case is a Bachmann P&LE coil car that is almost dead on and no one else has done it let alone better.

Never overlook nostalgia. That can be a driving force that defies logoc. :-)

And lastly, couplers and trucks can be changed a whole lot more cheaply than the $20 to $40 that today's r-t-r is bringing...

[Anonymous]

I wont want to keep quiet but would like to venture a humble opinion very gently that Tyco cars are not worth the expense of conversion (Wheels, couplers and etc) However... I applaud your efforts and support whatever you choose to do with the Tyco cars. Who knows?? With Grab irons and other detail added on they may become pretty good hanh?

I would like pics when you are done, take care and have a great weekend.

[rogerhensley]

It is not at all impossible to convert Tyco and others to new trucks and Kadee couplers. Nor does it have to be expensive if you use Athearn trucks. See http://www.nmra.org/beginner/retrucking.html for an article in the NMRA Beginner's pages that addresses just exactly that. :-)

[Morpar]

I am kind of in the same boat too. I have around 50 old Tyco cars, and while they are no match for a lot of the other manufacturers in detail, they still look good from a few feet away in a train! I have been trying Walther's trucks. My LHS has the roller bearing trucks (1013) for $2 a set. I haven't started upgrading to metal wheels yet, but the rolling characteristics don't seem too bad, a lot better than the original trucks. I don't know if they also offer non-roller bearing, I haven't looked for them. These trucks will mount on a 1/8" diameter piece of plastic tubing, then secure with the small wood screws that I seem to have way too many of (for now). Just fill the truck mounting hole in the floor with telscoping tubing until it fills the entire hole, leaving the 1/8" out. I glue all this together with the tubing slightly higher than the bolster, then smooth it down when dry. Then glue in the 1/8" tubing with a little more than the thickness of the truck bolster exposed. When the glue is dry, mount the truck with the screw and you're done. This works on all brands of cars, you just may need to drill out the hole in the floor to fit the tubing in. I know the hole is a different size on some cars even amongst the Tyco line. Good luck.

[cefinkjr]

I'm in the midst of a project much like you're talking about -- refurbishing several Mantua/Tyco cars. They're even older than the ones you're working on but I'm sure they're very similar if not identical. I agree that they probably aren't worth it but the car price was right -- one modern covered hopper for about 20 elderly cars less t/c.

They're getting Accurail trucks with metal wheels from various manufacturers because that's what is on hand.

I'm putting Kadee #5s on these cars by drilling a #50 hole at the proper location in the floor (watch out for the gaping hole that's already there) and mounting the coupler with a #2 x 1/4 Pan Head Steel Self Tapping Screw (Walther's description of their part number 947-1150 - $2.98 per pack of a dozen). So far, so good.

Chuck

[nfmisso]

Different manufacturers wheels come on different length axles. I measured P2K at 1.008", IM at 1.013" and Kadee at 1.018". On trucks that P2K works well, Kadee will not even rotate, and on trucks Kadee works well, P2K just fall out. NWSL and ReBoxx offer a variety of axle lengths.

Invest in some basic tools, including a caliper, like this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47257
and a "tool" like this one:
http://www.reboxx.com/Tools.htm
and a Kadee #205 coupler height guage
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page120.htm

Take a look at the article on the NYC Trix caboose in the Feb 2005 issue of MR, follow those basic techniques to mount knuckle couplers on your Tyco cars.

[Anonymous]

I think you can have some fun this winter fixing your Tyco cars. When I got back into the hobby just after Christmas last year, I found all my old Tyco cars with hook horn couplers. Not being very bright I went merrily on my way changing all of them over to KD #5 couplers. I didn't know you couldn't do that. All of the cars work fine. As far as the wheels go, I had an old Tyco Penn RR caboose that I complelely redid. New paint, decals, Intermountian 33" conductinng wheels, mounted some red lights on the back and some pick-up wipers. The looks great and works great. Try the Intermountain 33" wheels. They seem to work fine.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Favrefan,

O.K, since you're keeping the Tycos, you can make a few relatively inexpensive changes. I don't know your exact budget but I hope this helps.

[1] According to the Walther's Catalog KD #27 will work on Tyco freight cars. You may need to purchase the Talgo Truck Adapter kit ($2.95).

[2]Here's another slightly more expensive option that'll keep your track cleaner and add a little weight to the car: Purchase Kadee Talgo Trucks ( #380-516). Comes with the Knuckle coupler already mounted. You can use styrene to plug the Talgo hole in the body and tap out for 2-56 screws. Price of this truck: $8.00 per pair. You might be able to find some at discounted prices online.

Now here's something weird! I took a Tyco Santa Fe Flat car that I've had since 1973. I popped off a truck and mounted Proto 2000 Wheels. Doesn't work as the axle needle is a hair too long. I reinstalled the cheap plastic Tyco axle and discovered that the wheels roll almost as good as Intermountain Metal wheels!! Go figure!

Still, the plastic wheels will build up grime quickly, which you don't want to have on your track. That's why I would go with the metal truck sets.

There are wheel sets (IM or Jaybee) that have slightly shorter needles that might fit the Tyco trucks. Hopefully Don Gibson or one of the other "Wheel and Car" gurus will chime in with info!

Let us know what you decide to do!

God Bless that little one!


[

[Favrefan04]

I guess I didn't realize that new trucks would cost that much. I also didn't realize that I would have to replace all of the trucks as well. I thought that I could just replace the wheels and cut off the truck mounted coupler housings, mount the new body mounted couplers, and be done with it. Darn that sucks.

I am sure that I have at least 2 that are not Tyco cars. I am not sure who made them, but I know that the detail on those two are so much better, that they might be worth updating. Maybe if I find that it is not so bad after those two and I still feel like I need more rolling stock then I will work on the others 1 or 2 at a time.

Thanks for the reply cacole, I appreciate the advice and info.

[cacole]

Tyco and other train set rolling stock is nearly impossible to convert to metal wheels and knuckle couplers, because they didn't use standard length needle-pointed axles. In many cases, the entire truck will have to be changed, and a body-mounted coupler installed. Sometimes this is going to cost more than the value of the car, so you're better of just replacing the entire thing.

[Favrefan04]

I am sure that this has been asked a couple of times but I am going to ask it again. I have several old box cars and the like from the mid to late 80's (my first experiance with model railroading). I believe that they are all Tyco products, and the all have the hook type of couplers, as well as plastic wheels. I am curious how much work would it take to convert them to Kadee couplers?

I have a very limited budget at the moment as my wife and I are expecting our first child and most of our money is going to the baby. I don't have a layout built yet, but I wanted to do something constructive in the hobby.

I have been reading my MRR each month as well as a couple of other magazines that I have managed to pick up, but this only makes me want to get busy that much more.

I do have a couple of kits that I could put together and all of that, but I wanted to start with these others first. I know that many of you will say that the detail of the old Tyco cars is too poor, but I am willing to sacrafice that for the moment until I can get my hobby fund going again after my wife goes back to work.