Hi all, I own some NS Atlas custom line #4 turnouts with metal frogs and metal guard rails. Are they wired any different from the all plastic ones, and does anyone know when they were made?
Thanks, Rob
Mister Mikado Hi all, I own some NS Atlas custom line #4 turnouts with metal frogs and metal guard rails. Are they wired any different from the all plastic ones, and does anyone know when they were made? Thanks, Rob
They are still being made that way right now, in both code 100 and code 83, and they have been this way for 30 years or more.
The older all plastic frogs on Custom Line turnouts have not been made since that time.
The frog is isolated, but can be wired to a relay to power it. The small lug with the hole on the frog is to accept a small screw to attach the wire.
The internal wiring of the turnout is the same as the much older ones where the power is passed thru the turnout by jumpers under the frog.
Atlas also makes a the "snap switch" which is not a #4 or #6, but is a match to a curved section of 18" or 22" radius "snap track". These still have plastic frogs.
Sheldon
Very helpful and educational Sheldon, thank you! -Rob
May I hear opinions on which Atlas type is more reliable for running and electrical connectivity--the plastic frog types or the metal frogs with the metal guard rails?
The powered metal frog will always be more reliable than a plastic frog. The smaller frog sizes liek the #4 you can often get away without powering the frog, unless you run some really small locos with limited power pickup, but as you get to larger frog numbers, the frog gets larger, thus the unpowered amount of track the loco has to get through gets bigger, and even some larger locos can have issues. The #8s, those have a rather huge frog area, powering it is pretty much required.
Now my actual experience. My last layout used all #4. I installed wires to power the frogs, but never hooked them up - because all of my locos could get through at creeping speed without stalling, down to my smallest, a Bachmann 44 tonner.
Layout before that - it was mostly #6s. And I never powered the frogs and all my locos worked fine. That was the beginning of sound, and none of the sound locos had sound dropouts, either. My smallest loco at that time was probably a P2K S-1 switcher, and it had no problem even without powering the frog.
At the very least - make provisions to power the frogs as you lay the track. It's much harder to go back later and do it. Since the metal frogs are made of some type of pot metal and not nickle silver like the rails, it is very difficult to solder to. I used a brass screw in the hole and soldered the wire to that. Easier to do before installing the turnout - and you can run the screw in from underneath, and paint the shiny 'dot' that appears in the hole fromt he top to completely hide it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have a number of Walthers-Shinohara turnouts, and a lot of Atlas plastic frog turnouts, plus a few Atlas metal frog turnouts. All of them work well at normal speeds. The slow speed turnouts in yards generally cause no problems, but most of them are short snap-switches with short frogs.
When I added the W-S turnouts, I powered them with Tortoise machines so it was easy to power the frogs, just a few wires for each turnout. I did notice that the performance improved with wired frogs. Unwired metal frogs, realistically, are just like plastic frogs -- a dead spot.
The metal frog Atlas turnouts are driven by Atlas machines. Some day I may get a Frog Juicer to power those frogs, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Randy is right about the odd metal used for Atlas frogs. Others have suggested either finding the right weird screw size, or drilling and tapping that hole for a screw size you can find.
My W-S turnouts have normal metal frogs and can be soldered. Still, I now always solder a green wire to each metal frog on my bench before installation, then thread it through for later connection.
I'm working on a switching layout that uses mostly Atlas no. 4 turnouts. The layout is DCC and the frogs are connected to Tam Valley Frog Juicers.
The best way I've found to power those frogs is to tap them for 2-56 brass screws, then solder wire to the head of the screws. As said above, install the screw from below and drop the wires as you lay the turnouts. Kadee makes a 2-56 tap and drill set. If you haven't tried tapping a hole before, some tips:
Use light oil (the same stuff you use for your locomotives) to lubricate the tap. Put a drop or two on the hole each time you start the tapping process.
Stop and back out the tap often, like as soon as the resistance gets tight. After you clear the chips off the tap, add another drop of oil.
Tighten the tap securely in a pin vice. I usually have to crank down pretty hard with a couple pairs of pliers so the tap doesn't slip in the vice.
After you do a couple holes, you'll get a feel for when you can keep going with the tap. If it gets stuck, remove the pin vice and grab the tap with your pliers and carefully twist it back out.
Voila! You've added a new skill to your repertoire.
Eric
Pretty sure I used 1-72 screws, and the pot metal was soft enough that even a brass screw self-tapped. I did not use a tap. Unfortunately my workbench supplies are still packed up in the garage so I can't check my stash to see what I have, or I could get the exact screw size and length. I know they were HO-Bits