Ultimately I tried several recent BLI diesels including 2 GP20's, 2 SD45's and 3 SD40-2's. I found that I preferred other competitors diesels more.
I do still have one BLI HO RSD-15, and I sold all my HO steam. My son is really into modern diesels, so steam just isnt something we need anymore.
Have really wanted the BLI N scale AC6000, BUT Spookshow who writes an unbiased review of all N scale locomotives has stated that it is good looking locomotive that has mechanical problems which he spells out in detail. He also states "Due to all of the above caveats, I can't really rate these models any higher than a "C". Yes, the potential is there to find a decent one - I just don't know what your odds are of doing so. About all I can say is try before you buy (if at all possible). And failing that, make sure that you have the option of returning it should things not work out."
Can't speak much on BLI as I only have an EMC E1 from them. It is a paragon 3 model and I never had any problems with it. I have had it for about 5/6 years now. The pulling power is incredible and it is very detailed.
I am generally hesistant to buy from them as they have had a lot of complaints in the last few years in terms of quality control.
LARRY LOCKWOODI have a Broadway Limited ES44AC and it runs clunky stop and go . I would not recommend Broadway at all. Its so frustrating the way it sort of runs.
First post in 10 years? Wow, Larry. I encourage you to post more often, if you can.
Also, if your ES44AC runs that badly, I would encourage you to contact the BLI repairt department. I have sent a couple of steamers back in the past when they didn't operate well right out of the box. Both times BLI repaired them and shipped them back to me at NO COST. They stand behind their product.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Another old thread. Hopefully the OP has satisfactory results.
I have old PCM steam with QSI decoders and a couple of Blueline steam. Except for a cracked gear on my I1sa and a chuff sensor on the J1s they have been fantastic. My Blueline M1 has so many miles on it that the wheels are no longer tapered. It has run continuously for days at club open house many times pulling mixed freight with no interruptions.
Reading the various forums, it seems like hit or miss if you got a lemon. It's been a very long time since any of mine needed parts. But BLI was very good and responsive.
Pete.
As of their Paragon 4 series, BLI has wisely resorted to installing capacitors for 'keep alive' functionality. I have two P4s at present, and am happy to report that BLI can hopefully begin to restore their reputation in the HO model train business. Their P3 cadre was a mess, from what I see printed on the www.
I have a Broadway Limited ES44AC and it runs clunky stop and go . I would not recommend Broadway at all. Its so frustrating the way it sort of runs.
I have 5 BLI locomotives, all steam; a BlueLine "Big Boy", 2 BlueLine GE AC6000s and 2 Santa Fe Northern 4-8-4s.
I love the Blueline "Big Boy". The only issue I've had with it was one wire that came out of the connector inside the tender. Once that was fixed, I haven't a problem with it.
The older of the two Santa Fe 4-8-4s came with the QSI dual-mode decoder. I've already sent it back for replacement. The chuff sound worked, but the bell quit working. They repaired it and sent it back. They have a fellow that does decoder upgrades, upgrading to a Paragon 3 upgrade.
The other 4-8-4 Northern came with the Paragon 3 decoder. Much better decoder and more sounds. I changed some of the CV values, using BLIs DCMaster, to suit my tastes; they're pretty loud right out of the box.
The GE AC6000s took a little time to consist, but they work great together once completed.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
ChrisVA Thanks for all of the feedback. The consenus I'm seeing is that BLI makes good models but the DCC decoders generally leaving something to be desired. Since their name includes "Importers", I'm assuming the models are actually built somewhere else outside of the USA? I know their HQ is in Florida. Do they actually build some of the locos there? What goes on there if the models are built elsewhere?Thanks!
Thanks for all of the feedback. The consenus I'm seeing is that BLI makes good models but the DCC decoders generally leaving something to be desired.
Since their name includes "Importers", I'm assuming the models are actually built somewhere else outside of the USA? I know their HQ is in Florida. Do they actually build some of the locos there? What goes on there if the models are built elsewhere?Thanks!
Chris, virtually no model trains are manufactured in the USA any more. Most actual production moved to China 20 years ago.
Companies here design the models and sub contract production out to a number of both large and small manufacturers over seas, again, mostly in China.
Sheldon
The OP asked about brass hybrids too.
As someone who has dabbled in brass many times through the years, and who has also owned BLI steam engines, including the brass hybrids, I would prefer at this point in my life to buy a BLI brass hybrid over the full on brass models out there.
Though I do not like BLI's electronics and had to have a Union Pacific 4-6-6-4 repaired earlier this year because both the Paragon 3 decoder and motor were junk, they have new versions of both the motor and the Paragon 3 decoder currently available, that are being installed in the models that experience failure. You can have BLI fix them under warranty, or there is an independent repair place that can do it faster, for a fee.
Why would I prefer a BLI brass hybrid to ANY of the full on brass steam locomotives out there?
Price and value delivered for that price. I've done extensive research of the brass models currently available in the marketplace (have gone through every single steam listing at BrassTrains.com under $1100 multiple times), have bought/sold/played with many brass steam engines, and the BLI brass hybrids are a truly exceptional value for the money spent. It is nearly impossible to find professionally painted models in America, that also have the cool lights and illuminated numberboards like the BLI models (I can take or leave the sound), and MOST but not all American professional painters of brass models are using completely inferior hobby grade Floquil and Scalecoat I paint. Even if the model is bead blasted, primed, and painted, those paints actually rub off the brass with handling--starting to show bare brass on sharp edges within a couple weeks at my house (on models from three different pro painters).
The BLI engines are factory painted overseas, most likely still with lead based nasty solvent paint. Not only is that paint job basically FREE within their price structure (as compared to full on brass models of the same items--if you can find them), but that BLI factory paint is better than what you will get from almost any American painter (a few are using higher quality paints). The BLI paint jobs last; the models can be handled a lot, and they still for me have continued looking great without the paint wearing off them at all. Their factory paint is very chip resistant as well. The other guys' paint is NOT chip resistant at all.
Some of the BLI steamers have certain drivers sprung, just like the full on brass models, while other (interior) drivers may not be sprung. They have done it in a sensible way. Also, BLI uses blind drivers to enable their steam engines to go around 24" radius curves. They bevel the inside edges so that they can slip easily on and off the rail when needed. This enables some really big impressive engines to take normal curves with EASE (4-12-2, 4-6-6-4, 4-8-4's, etc.)
I have not always been a fan of BLI's sound or smoke, but the modeling, painting, lighting, and actual performance on a layout is well worth the money spent.
I was very upset to buy a brand new Paragon 3 4-6-6-4 and have it fail within a week, but the repaired model will quite easily pull every car we have on hand, and can do it with speed. It has all the torque we will ever need, and is easily capable of pulling 100 cars on level track (two drivers have rubber tires). There are YouTube product reviews where people have actually pulled the 100 cars; one was the BLI ATSF second run (Modernized version) 2-10-2. It is a beast and will pull the house, just like the 4-6-6-4.
John
NHTX As with Kevin, there are BLI diesel locomotives I would willingly buy, if some were available WITHOUT DCC and sound.
The only BLI locmotives I want are the NEW HAVEN I-5 and the NORFOLK AND WESTERN Class A. I only want one of each, and they must be DC and undecorated.
I am 99.99% sure that they will do nothing to ever produce a locomotive I would buy.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
As with Kevin, there are BLI diesel locomotives I would willingly buy, if some were available WITHOUT DCC and sound. Yes I could remove all of that stuff and replace it with additional weight but, the idea of paying another $50 or more per model, for something that is useless to me does not sit well. I imagine the production of straight DC locomotives when everything is geared to the production of DCC/sound units would be cost prohibitive.
I have seven Broadway/PCM locos. I run DC and all have had their decoders removed. Some have had their tenders replaced with Bachmann tenders.
I have two USRA heavy Mikados, each from different production runs, actually each from different factories. Both older, one from the first run, the second a Blueline. Both developed major problems early on. Both required complete disassembly and rebuilding to run correctly.
Both now have Spectrum long USRA tenders, are DC only, and Delta trailing trucks from Athearn Pacifics. Broadway was not able to supply parts that fit, I had to modify and repair the wrong parts to fix the locos.
Thanks to my die cast locomotive kit building experiance, I was able to fix them.
Next up, I own two PCM Reading T1 4-8-4's, both purchased in that brief moment years ago when BLI/PCM sold DC locomotives. They run great and pull well, and have been trouble free.
Next we have two N&W Class A 2-6-6-4's, again, one from the original release, and one Blueline version. Both lost their original electronics in favor of Bachmann DC lighiting boards in Bachmann long tenders salvaged from C&O 2-8-4's.
Both run great and pull well, easily moving upwards of 100 cars.
Lastly we have a USRA heavy Pacific from about 5 years ago, also outfited with a Bachmann USRA long haul tender, and Delta trailing truck from Athearn.
It runs very nice.
I would not consider any of these locos "exceptionally detailed". The T1's and the Class A's are nicely detailed.
The Mikados and the Pacific are acceptably detailed, and are exceptable for my purposes with the modifications I have made for my freelanced ATLANTIC CENTREAL.
At the price point of current Braodway releases, I find it disappointing that they cannot even move a headlight, or offer a Delta trailing truck to make the Pacific and Mikado models more accurate for the various roadnames - Bachmann has no trouble doing this?
The detail levels on every Broadway diesel I have ever seen leave me disappointed. I did many years ago buy a set of PCM undecorated EMD F3's. I was not happy with the detail or the performance, I sold them still basically new in the box.
At this point, I don't see many, or any, additional Broadway locos in my future.
I am a C&O modeler, but I have no interest in the 2-10-4, I stay away from locos with long rigid wheel bases, even with my 36" radius curves. Maybe a J3a or an L-1 if I found the right deal, but I don't really need either one.
Nothing else they make is of any interest.
I have one diesel, great sound but has known issues, will be getting rid of it.
I have seven eight BLI/PCM locomotives: 6 steam & 2 diesel...
I don't run them very often but the steamers are very good locomotives and most are specific to the railroad I'm modeling (New York Central). I also like the PCM (Precision Craft Models) F3 A-B. It's heavy and pulls well. I just wish BLI/PCM had done a little more research to know that NYC F3s did not come with twin headlights.
The only one that's been a disappointment for me is the SW7. It's a nice looking locomotive. However, the gearing is such that top speed is ~20 sMPH. Granted, it was primarily used for yard switching. Even so, it could still achieve a top speed of 45 sMPH.
I'm pretty much set on NYC steam so I don't expect to be purhasing any more steam (or diesel) from BLI anytime soon...unless...they decide to come out with a NYC 4-8-2 L-2a Mohawk with the Elesco FWH above the front headlight...or an H-5 2-8-2 Mike.
BRVRRBLI makes a good product and backs them up with excellent and available technicians.
This has been my experience, too.
In fact just this week I received a replacement decoder for my new streamlined K4 and a new motor and decoder for the third PRR P5a electric.
Broadway is not alone in the recent spate of bad electronics. There must have been a disturbance in the "force" as Rapido had quite a few decoder failures traced to incompatibility/high current draw in some of their latest locomotives.
I probably have over a hundred BLI engines. MOST have run flawlessly and some of these are going on twenty years now.
Yes, I've had more problems with the recent Paragon 3 electronics but BLI has provided excellent tech support and where possible, they have sent me the parts so I can do the repair myself. I prefer this to shipping the whole engine back.
PRR_GG6 by Edmund, on Flickr
Some models just seem to run forever. These GG1s span twenty years of production and they all run flawlessly and, come to think about it, I don't recall ever giving any of them a drop of oil, either.
Overall, I give BLI a score of A– in overall product and service.
Good Luck, Ed
I got a BLI Hudson for myself for my 60th birthday in 2007. It has a QSI decoder. I have a lot of 18 inch curves on my layout so I did have to take advantage of the looser engine to tender separation to make the curves.
I had a slippage problem with the motor drive shaft and the main drive gear. I took the engine apart, easily identified the problem, and fixed it with a drop of CA.
I am concerned about some problems with newer engines, but for this one, it's an old reliable.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have two BLI steamers; a first run 4-8-4 that is approaching 20 years old; and a recent purchase of a 2-10-2. Both Santa Fe; good runners. Sound quality of the 4-8-4 isn't up to what you can find now, but it is fine for my purposes. The 2-10-2 is my favorite locomotive to run at the club. Looks good, sounds good, pulls like the brute the prototype was. I will buy one or more of the Santa Fe 2-8-2s when they come out later this year/early next year.
I only have one BLI and it is the C&O 2-10-4 steamer. I love everything about it, the way it sounds and runs. It pulls better than anything else I have. The headlight burned out and a phone call had a new one in the mail for free and it was changed in seconds as it only took poping off the front of the boiler. Yes I would buy another one.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I have something like 18 BLI variant line steamers (including PCM and Hybrid). I haven't purchased a P3 loco yet, and I have no strong hankering to add another BLI model at this point. I have been very pleased with my purchases, and wouldn't hesitate to commend prospective buyers to BLI's products. The four times I have had to send in steamers for repairs, they all came back fully restored. Two occasions were my own fault. I installed a Niagara truck axle ends- reversed and caused a fatal short to the decoder. They repaired it for free. When I dropped my very fine PCM 2-8-8-2, they restored it fully for a whopping $40, including return shipping. I returned my new Hybrid Pennsy Q2 because the front LED stopped working. I waited three full months for its return, but I had the expected result.
MTH had a terrible time with their version of the Big Boy about six years ago, maybe seven. BLI has had the odd problem child. I'm sure they feel badly when things go wrong, but they keep their chins up and take back items to fix or to replace them. All importers do this. They all have a bad run now and then. Nobody likes it, least of all those trying to keep a faithful clientele.
I have 6 steam locomotives (QSI and Paragon 2), four Blue Line SD9's, 2 F-units and a pair of PRR Centipedes. All operated through 4 DC Master and 4 Quantum Engineers with power supplied by 4 MRC Controlmaster 20 units. Only problem was a failed LED headlight in a SD9, which they sent the part and I repaired. I must admit they have very, very low mileage. To date, I am satisfied with their offerings.
I have only 2, older steam locos actually put out by their once alternate company, Prcision Craft Models. They have ESU Loksound decoders, at a time when the BLI locos used QSI. Never really had a problem with them, though one did need some minor tweaks out of the box.
At the time I got the first of those, I also had running several of the QSI equipped steam locos, as my ex father in law was a huge PRR fan, so he had the GG1 and a couple of the early steam locos, as well as one of the same PCM steamers I had. They all ran fine, never had a problem with them, all were good right out of the box.
I have none of the newer ones which use their own decoders, mainly because they've made nothing I can use. There are a few of the newer ones run on the club layout which generally seem to be fine, the biggest problem on some of them was getting the harness from the tender plugged in properly - if not firmly seated, there is intermittant contact and they don't run properly.
There have been lots of postings about the newer electronics failing. Hard to tell just how widespread this is because it is human nature to complain about something, but not post that everything is perfectly fine. So the loudest voices are the ones that have had failures. Just how many total owners this represents is anyone's guess. If they DID make another loco that I could run on my layout, I'd probably buy it. Know that I am not afraid to remove their electronics and put in the decoder of my choice, because things like the Rolling Thunder have no appeal for me. I do wish they'd do DC only versions - I'm more interested in having consistent decoders across my fleet than having extra features I will never use, like the already mentioned Rolling Thunder, or the ability to record and playback moves, or the extra "non-locomotive" sounds - I don;t carry cattle in my tenders, so mooing tenders are just plain silly, station announcements are equally silly on a freight locomotive, and nor is there a microuniverse in my tender so the countryside sounds should not come from there.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Besides the engines, curious about the freight cars.
Why would any place put in decoders and refuse to help customers with any isuses?
I have five BLI steam locomotives and one ABA set of their new F3 diesels.
One of the steamers is more than 16 years old and still runs and sounds like the day I purchased it. A second is but one year younger and has its wheels run off almost daily by my grandson. The only problems I've had are with the smokers. My eldest grandson runs a couple of the larger locos with smoke and has burned out the smoke unit on the Pennsy 2-10-4 a couple of times. Once programmed to my liking we have never had a significant problem with the BLI electronics from the early Paragon 2 though the Paragon 3s.
My F3 ABA set had two powered A-units and a dummy B-unit. They crawl at speed step one and were speed matched right out of the box. As I've only had them a short time I can't say much about longevity, but if they are like the steamers, they should last my lifetime.
BLI makes a good product and backs them up with excellent and available technicians.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
I've read a lot of negative feedback about the electronic parts in the BLI engines; people often have trouble and rip the decoders out and replace them with a better brand decoder such as ESU or ST or TCS. Mechanically the BLI engines are supposed to be good, but you may have problems with the electronics.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Trainman440AND (3) they refuse to sell engines without their decoders,
This is the only reason I have no BLI locomotives.
Not only do they all have decoders, but they flat-out refused to supply me with the information necessary to remove the decoder, and were quite rude about it. They made it very clear that they did not like even being asked the question.
If you run DCC, you will probably enjoy their steam locomotive line.
I really like BLI steam. While (a) their Paragon 3(not paragon 2) decoders/motors seem to be a bit inconsistant,(2)they love to charge paragon 3 prices for "updated" paragon 2 or previous engines, AND (3) they refuse to sell engines without their decoders, their selection of (IMHO) desirable steam locos is what sells it for me.
(Given I had the money) I have nothing holding me back from buying more of their products.
I wouldnt say they're ahead, their diesel line is quite lacking(little prototype details until their new F3/F7 line), and athearn's steam locos are equally amazing(I really hope they make more), they do set a good example of what a sucessful model train manufacturer should be like: selling desireable products that will last a long time, and bringing joy to their customers.
PS I have 13 BLI engines, all steam. A mix of PCM, brass hybrid, powerhouse, Paragon, P2 and P3.
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I did a bit more looking into this company's products. They seem to be significantly ahead of the curve/other manufacturers wrt quality and features?
I also like their Brass hybrid line: The detail of a brass loco with smooth running and DCC capability.
Id be interested in hearing what experiences folks have had with their products.
Regards,
Chris