I'll bump this; I now have one of the Van's K5as and it is just as fine a piece of jewelry in the hand as I expected. I have not tinkered with cleanup or running yet... but does Loksound have a project for it, or does TCM have reasonable support?
Not sure why the mikado wasn't included. The CN had 497 of them so they weren't unusual. I expect CP had lots too.
Stix, I grew up in Winnipeg and saw a lot of steam in the last few years it ran, 1957-59. I railfanned on the CN west mainline and the most common loco I saw was the mikado. Also saw a lot of Pacifics and Mountains. Not that many ten wheelers or consolidations.
Overmod, I paid $395 for my K5a and getting a major 'tune-up' plus a motion decoder only cost an additional $105. So in the end not any more than Rapido cost range. Sound would have added another $100. It runs as well or better than any plastic loco I have.
CN Charlie
wjstixSo, despite not being the best or most plentiful NYC engine, you could consider it the iconic Central steam engine.
Perhaps the point is better made over on 'that other railroad' where 2-8-0s were used all the time... but the 'lollipops' there were more iconic, at least to most of the PRR steam aficionados I know. Were 2-8-2s not as popular in Canada due to size vs. era as they were in the United States?
Suppose I said "New York Central steam engine". What would you picture in your mind? It probably wouldn't be an H-5 class 2-8-2, although (I believe) that was the most common engine on NYC's roster. It probably wouldn't be the Niagara 4-8-4, although that was almost certainly the best steam engine the railroad (some would argue the best any railroad) had. It would probably be the 4-6-4 Hudson. So, despite not being the best or most plentiful NYC engine, you could consider it the iconic Central steam engine.
If you lived in a town on the CP or CN in steam days, the engines you'd see the most would be 4-6-0s and 2-8-0s, doing their mundane everyday work. When you thought back to that time, that is the images you would probably recall.
CNCharlieOvermod, If you want a K5a, Van Hobbies did a run in 1978 made by Samhongsa. I
Not that I don't keep thinking about it whenever I see one...
The thing is that one with Rapido detail design, modern drive and all, and non-collector price would sure put me over the line into active purchasing...
Overmod, If you want a K5a, Van Hobbies did a run in 1978 made by Samhongsa. I wanted a K5a too so I bought a brass one that had been nicely painted. It is a beauty and after some work on the drive, it now runs very smoothly. It does have a can motor. I bought mine from Brasstrains and I see they have a one for sale now. Get it painted as the cost to paint such a loco is high. I would like a Jubilee also and Van Hobbies did a run in 1974 but I find they aren't that well done. I was quoted $300 to paint one. I guess I'll be in an an assisted living place by the time Rapido bring theirs out. Time isn't on my side which is why I bought a brass CN J4e Pacific. It is on Rapido's list but I can't wait that long.
doctorwayneI dunno, Mike, but the Japanese and Koreans made a lot of Canadian steam locomotives, too.
And not-too-pricey compared to the latest plastic steam locomotive offerings.
The brass Canadian locomotives are beauties.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
LastspikemikeTrainsubstantiation, anyone?
What he meant about the Canadian locomotives is 'at currently cost-effective price tiers' and with a good selection. I suspect only a Canadian firm, and moreover one with more enthusiasm than concern for opportunity cost, would undertake the combination of scope and quality for price that Rapido has...
Funny how I have no objection to the phrase 'iconic Canadian steam' but pick at 'icons of Canadian steam'. It's not the same thing semantically but I can't put my finger on why...
And I am still watching for a Canadian to explain why a 2-8-0 is iconic but a 2-8-2 isn't
I maintain that Rapido simply misused the word.
Instead of icon, they should have chosen a word such as titan.
Rich
Alton Junction
LastspikemikeFinally, surely Rapido couldn't possibly be riffing on the fact that Rapido and only Rapido makes a Canadian steam locomotive.
I dunno, Mike, but the Japanese and Koreans made a lot of Canadian steam locomotives, too.
Wayne
I am precisely the same way about the prospect of a real K5a instead of that kludge in the toy-train set, and a U4b, and any Jubilee. I'd never have the excuse to run them, but then again I never wear the Edward Howard...
And yeah, that would apply to a K1a if they made them, and probably to specific road numbers of Betty.
And a high-pressure Selkirk, but that ain't one I think they'll make...
I wonder if Jason is sensing this disturbance in the force he created.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
LastspikemikeThe current meaning now unfortunately includes merely a pictograph representing a computer pathname.
Of course in the intervening years much in IxD, including using pictorial avatars for clickable entities or controls, has been trivialized at times. But if you are going to judge it you should do so using the truth, not what you believe.
To bring this DEFINITIVELY back on topic: here is the list of 'icons of Canadian steam' taken from lastspikemike's informational post on the 21st:
Royal Hudson (as issued). Then, scheduled:
"2018"
CP 4-6-0 (three classes);
CN 4-6-0 (two classes)
"2019"
Regular (not 'royal') CP Hudson (two classes)
CN 2-8-0 (2 classes
"2020"
CP light Pacific (two classes)
CN light Mountain (one class, U1f)
"2021"
CP heavy Pacific (3 classes)
CN heavy Pacific (3 classes
"2022"
Selkirk (two classes; presumably semistreamlined and 'regular'?)
CN U4 (two classes - no mention of CN vs. GTW streamlining differences, but I 'thought' I remembered U4a was the CN streamlining and U4b the Grand Trunk Western with those snazzy fins)
"2023"
(finally!) the CP Jubilees (2 classes; essentially counts as two different engines)
Some of these are iconic in their own right, and I think we have discussed them. Some of the 4-6-0s are engineered and built like large road power; one such (I believe from 1930) is at NH&I in pieces ... very impressive pieces when you examine them. This is a general-purpose engine, not a trick pony like a PRR G5, and I believe (although this is not an area of direct interest for me) that several authors have written about these engines as particularly good for what the railroad 'needed' up to (and perhaps after!) the advent of dieselization.
Let the real Canadians comment profusely!
Let's face it, icon was the not best choice of words.
Remember that "icon" can mean "representative" - in other words, "typical". It doesn't necessarily mean "famous". I think Rapido is trying to build engines that were well known Canadian engine types that many modellers of the steam / transition era in Canada could use, not just record-setters or 'celebrity' engines.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo offense to our Canadian friends, Canada had great steam locos, but I'm not buying any. And my reasons are also complelely subjective. I don't collect random "famous" locomotive models, I don't own a model of a UP BigBoy, or a long list of other locos the manufacturers keep cranking out. I only buy models that fit the theme of my layout.
You repeat these kinds of assertions (I don't buy, I don't do, I don't this or that) over and over and over and over - over how many years in how many topics? Wouldn't it be easier to just put those statement in a signature and save the trouble of typing it out umpteen times in umpteen topics?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The OP's question is highly subjective, as have been a great percentage of the replies, at least the ones I tried to drag myself through. Which is to be expected.
Only the people/person who made the list have those subjective answers.
No offense to our Canadian friends, Canada had great steam locos, but I'm not buying any. And my reasons are also complelely subjective.
I don't collect random "famous" locomotive models, I don't own a model of a UP BigBoy, or a long list of other locos the manufacturers keep cranking out.
I only buy models that fit the theme of my layout. I don't model Canada.........
So unless Rapido makes a B&O P7d, or some other jewel of railroading in the Mid Atlantic, they are off my radar.
As for the direction of this thread or this forum, I find myself less motivated to read or post anything every day.
Sheldon
Overmod Probably a better solution was the 'foes' function that the Forums had up until just a few years ago. As I recall the documentation saying, this would quietly suppress posts from anyone a particular used designated a 'foe', a bit like a user filter on an e-mail system.
Probably a better solution was the 'foes' function that the Forums had up until just a few years ago. As I recall the documentation saying, this would quietly suppress posts from anyone a particular used designated a 'foe', a bit like a user filter on an e-mail system.
Oops, you are quite right, it was F2a. The F1a had 75" drivers same as the Hudsons.
CP only built 5 F2as . CN too only built 5 locos with 80" drivers, their only Hudsons.
CNCharlie Lastspikemike, the Jubilee that set the speed record was a Fa2 which was built before the Fa1.
Lastspikemike, the Jubilee that set the speed record was a Fa2 which was built before the Fa1.
These do not greatly differ in mechanical details from the Milwaukee A class, which Alfred Bruce (head of the company that built them) said would easily go 128mph. If a PRR T1 can have balance faster than that on 80" drivers, so could a Jubilee with better rod geometry ... and greater and more effective (on a proportional basis) radiant-section design.
The little Jubilees are like Hudsons downsized to handle little, rather than light, consists, and do just fine producing about ⅔ the drawbar pull of a corresponding enlargement to 4-6-4. Piston valves, not-too-sophisticated ports and passages, and relatively low drivers should preclude T1-style slipping even on indifferent trackage, I suspect.
Lastspikemike, the Jubilee that set the speed record was a Fa2 which was built before the Fa1. The Fa2 is the model that is listed on Rapido's Icons of Steam list but I believe it is last on the list. While the 2 are both Jubilees they had different drivers, different pilot and a few other things that can be seen in any photos of the two. By the way a Fa2 was used on the Calgary-Edmonton train for a number of years. I think it was #3001. Several Jubilees(Fa1) ran out of the Brandon, MB division as they accelerated quickly and so were good on local trains on the prairies. I have several photos in the books by Lawrence Stuckey. He was a rail photographer who also was a fireman/engineer on the CP out of Brandon. He quit when diesels took over from steam and ran a photography business. Try to find his book Prairie Cinders. He has great comments on many of the CP steam classes. The book was published in 1993. He also published a couple of photo books 'Steam in Manitoba'.
Engi1487 I hoped that some forum member would list each of the twelve classes and tell me why each was iconic and chosen by Rapido.
I'm only honorarily Canadian and don't have any interest in most of the list, so I can't, and haven't, provided itemized comments for the great majority. I'd be reasonably sure that Jason Shron could, whether or not he's psyched himself out of building the whole series as indicated, but it can't hurt to ask him.
richhotrainToo bad that the software doesn't permit an OP to block certain members.
Probably a better solution was the 'foes' function that the Forums had up until just a few years ago. As I recall the documentation saying, this would quietly suppress posts from anyone a particular used designated a 'foe', a bit like a user filter on an e-mail system. Judicious use of this would neatly solve a number of issues people have; I have been tempted for decades to put a little routine in with the parsing for browser display compatibility that scans for certain keywords and suppressed or flags any post that contains them; if Kalmbach IT were motivated in designing the vaporware New Strictly-from-Commercial User Experience they could easily set this up as a kind of 'negative keywords list' for flagging posts of interest.
richhotrain Too bad that the software doesn't permit an OP to block certain members. That would solve the problem of overwhelming technical info. Rich
Too bad that the software doesn't permit an OP to block certain members. That would solve the problem of overwhelming technical info.
Engi1487 SeeYou190 And another thread is swirling into the sanitary system. I thought we were going to discuss what made certain Canadian locmotives iconic. Oh well. -Kevin Hi Kevin. I am glad you say this as this is what I was expecting what would happen, and hoped would happen. I hoped that some forum membes would list each of the twelve classes and tell me why each was iconic and chosen by Rapido.I am glad for the responses even though they where not what I was hoping for. The amount of technical info is overwhelming. Ah well.
SeeYou190 And another thread is swirling into the sanitary system. I thought we were going to discuss what made certain Canadian locmotives iconic. Oh well. -Kevin
And another thread is swirling into the sanitary system.
I thought we were going to discuss what made certain Canadian locmotives iconic.
Oh well.
Hi Kevin. I am glad you say this as this is what I was expecting what would happen, and hoped would happen. I hoped that some forum membes would list each of the twelve classes and tell me why each was iconic and chosen by Rapido.I am glad for the responses even though they where not what I was hoping for. The amount of technical info is overwhelming.
Ah well.
LastspikemikeWe like to claim our Selkirk was the most powerful non articulated steam locomotive in the Commonwealth World.
How does the CPR Hudson class compare to the most usual USA Hudson class in size and power?
My impression is that CPR built quite different designs. It's only an impression though, at the moment.
Heck, I've only just sorted out the different valve gear types used on all steam locomotives....
I assume you've read the Shields article on Evolution of Locomotive Valve Gears -- if not, find it. Then, if you have not located and downloaded your copy of Charlie Dockstader's valve-gear wireframe simulator, do so -- if you have to acquire a used computer to run it, do that too; it's worth it. You will learn a great deal about practical valve-gear design by playing with the many variables and observing the result.
LastspikemikeI don't know but logically the Ten Wheeler would be followed by the Mikado, most numerous in part because pretty much every Consolidation was rebuilt as a Mikado. Then they should do the Consolidation.
Consolidations were more likely to be converted to 0-8-0s than to Mikados, as the latter would require a new frame. Many CNR (and possibly CPR) Consolidations were pretty close to equals of the Mikes, as far as tractive effort was concerned.
Lastspikemike...Since I have not looked into Steam Locomotives of the CNR I do not know in what way Canadian built CNR locomotives might be Icons of Canadian Steam...
Mike, I have amended my earlier post on Canadian locomotive builders, as I had neglected to mention that those Canadian-built locos were for the predecessors of the CNR, and then later, for the CNR itself.
Rapido did include some CNR locomotives in their Icon list, one of them being the CNR's H-6 10 Wheeler. However, decent brass models of the H-6 seem to be everywhere, so there was not much support for that one, which was slated to be done at the same time as the CPR D-10s (or in-lieu-of the D-10, had it not received adequate demand).
Here's one of mine in-service...
...and another getting some modifications to represent a specific locomotive...
I'll be using the original chassis for the tender, but will build a different body to better-match the particular prototype that I wish to represent.