I have been a sign painter since a junior in HS. I have of course gain quite a ot os skil in brush painting and can do it without brush marks. That said of course I also got into spray painting on a motor vehicle assembly line. Combining the two skills also led me to airbrush painting.
Have done all these I seem to go towards brush painting my models. I can get the effects I want and can even skip weathering afterwords. Every one should try both methods and you will discover which you are best at. Of course there is one other option....have someone else do it.
Overmod...There have certainly been people who have successfully painted with a brush, and even more certainly people who weather with one. But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close...
Your comment prompted me to take a look at those TH&B geeps, which I posted earlier. Viewed through my Optivisor, under very good lighting, there are no visible brush marks or surface irregularities apparent. They must have looked good enough to the buyers, too, as I did 66 of them, finally saved from doing more when factory-painted ones became available. Those from Atlas and Proto are both better than mine, and were I modelling the diesel era, I'd use them.
I also looked at mine through a loupe, and there are brush marks...not surprising, I suppose, as there were multiple coats needed to not only achieve an evenly-opaque colour, but also because the lettering required each body shell to first be painted in the opposite colour of the final version.
That meant that the upper portion got two or three coats of the cream colour, and likewise for the lower portion, using the darker colour. The lettering was then applied, using dry transfer alphabet sets from C-D-S.The shell was then painted again, two or three coats, but in the opposite colours used for the first applications.
As soon as the paint was dry-to-the-touch, I used small bits of masking tape to daub at the unburnished lettering, lifting-off the dry transfers and revealing the contrasting coloured lettering that was hidden below. In most cases, there was little or no touch-up needed.However, there was no dry transfer lettering, at that time, for the TH&B herald, so they were done by hand, using a fine brush.
I'm still rather proud of being able to create a reasonably accurate model of the real ones, and would like to think that the process, outlined in MR's Paintshop, may have encouraged the production of the better versions that followed.
Wayne
SeeYou190OvermodBut I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close...Point out the brush marks.
OvermodBut I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close...
Kevin, your original link works just fine for me...did you go back and fix it?
I checked your thread on assmbling an Athearn car, and do use a few of the same methods, although most of mine are otherwise modified externally, usually to match a specific prototype.
I use cast lead weights, but locate them at the car's ends to put the weight more-or-less directly over the trucks, which also prevents the floor from sagging...
Here's the modified Blue Box car (one of eight), with new ends & doors (Tichy), new Viking roof (Des Plaines Hobbies), new underbody (Central Valley), and new trucks (Walthers/Proto). The car's eaves have been lowered by about 6"(HO)
There's a thread HERE showing a lot of freight car "improvements", although the car shown above starts on page four of that post.
I've converted all of my Accurail cars to have screw-mounted trucks (no big-deal modifications, simply remove the push-in pegs, and replace them with 2-56 screws).I also use screws to hold the coupler boxes and/or lids in place, using 2-56 flathead screws. I use a hand-held #19 drill bit to create a partial countersink, followed up by a few twists using a #41 bit. In most cases, the screwhead is either flush or very close to being so, almost unnoticeable on the layout...
On Train Miniature cars, I usually remove the cast-on draught gear boxes, and replace them with Kadee...
Thanks kevin. I'm lucky enough to still have a LHS across the street from me (Literally, I can see if theyre open or closed by looking out my livingroom window!)
I will run in there today on my lunch and see what they have!
Ringo58Acrylic, oil or enamel?
I prefer to use the terms "water soluable" or "solvent soluable" when describing paints. It leads to much less confusion for my purposes.
Citadel, Vallejo, Turbo-Dork, and Reaper paints are all water soluable.
Note: Vallejo does make a small selection of metallic glazes that they call "alcohol based", and these are not water soluable. I use disposable brushes when working with these.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Acrylic, oil or enamel?
Lastspikemike ".. the click link is not working. WHY CAN'T I GET LINKS TO WORK?" It seems to be a random software fault at the forum end. It doesn't seem to matter whether you use the direct copy and paste method or the "tool" allowing inserting of a URL into your post. I have noted that posting internal links to other pages in these forums frequently does not work. I hope you can appreciate the humour of your post where the link you thought did not work actually did while the same link refused to work correctly the second time you tried in the very same post. It is baffling and mildly irritating. Many of my failed attempts have been corrected by other users, thanks to them for that help. Nobody has yet explained this inexplicable random error.
".. the click link is not working. WHY CAN'T I GET LINKS TO WORK?"
It seems to be a random software fault at the forum end. It doesn't seem to matter whether you use the direct copy and paste method or the "tool" allowing inserting of a URL into your post.
I have noted that posting internal links to other pages in these forums frequently does not work.
I hope you can appreciate the humour of your post where the link you thought did not work actually did while the same link refused to work correctly the second time you tried in the very same post.
It is baffling and mildly irritating.
Many of my failed attempts have been corrected by other users, thanks to them for that help.
Nobody has yet explained this inexplicable random error.
I found that after inserting in the link from the button and then pasting in the URL, then pressing the OK button, I need to next enter a carriage return. If course, that means I can't embed a link in the middle of a line, and I need that CR even at the very end of a post, but it always works for me.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
SeeYou190 Ringo58 Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on. That looks very good. Nice work. I hope you share some of that in Weekend Photo Fun. -Kevin
Ringo58 Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on.
That looks very good. Nice work. I hope you share some of that in Weekend Photo Fun.
I forgot it was friday!
Ill have to check the one hobby shop a few minutes down the road. He has a big slection of games stuff along with tons of NOS HO stuff from the early 2000s
Ringo58Is there a one stop shop for all this stuff?
Not really.
I have been getting my Vallejo Paints online from Mega Hobby. They carry everything. Their prices are not the best, but I have never had a problem with stock levels or service from them.
Tamiya I used to buy at local hobby shops, but that is no longer an option.
Citadel Paints are available at any game store that sells Games-Workshop products.
Winsor & Newton Series 7 brushes can be purchased at Dick Blick Art Supply online, as long as they are not banned from import, which happens from time to time.
Ringo58Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on.
Ringo58 Was my project for last night. Added 33" steel wheels and removed the old coupler box and replaced it with kadee #5s.
In case you have not seen it, I posted a thread with my Athearn Blue Box assembly techniques here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx
Hmmm... the click link is not working. WHY CAN'T I GET LINKS TO WORK?
This might work:
As always thanks for all the great information guys. Is there a one stop shop for all this stuff?
Heres a 40' boxcar I practiced some more weathering on. Was my project for last night. Added 33" steel wheels and removed the old coupler box and replaced it with kadee #5s. Still need to work out the coupler height on the SW7
I went a little heavy in some parts that I need to go back and touch up, over all I am pleased with how this BB athearned turned out. Now I need to order paint and while I am waiting I need to get the layout to 80% completion.
About 40 years ago, I brush-painted these two modified Athearn Blue Box geeps, to match their prototypes, using Polly S paints (not the later and much improved PollyScale)....
Except for the number boards and the black pinstripes on the pilots, all of the lettering is painted. Not too long after that, I did another two or three dozen in the same manner, before switching over to an airbrush for the last three dozen-or-so.
I used a good-quality brush and a decent paint that self-levelled before drying, so there are no brush marks. Many paints nowadays dry more rapidly, sometimes resulting in visible brush marks, while others self-level quickly, before beginning to dry.While it didn't take too long to become accustomed to using an airbrush, I still struggle with spray cans, and try to avoid using them. The only exception that has worked well for me was Tamiya's Grey Primer in a spray can, which yielded results close to those achieved with an airbrush. I can't say if Tamiya colours as sprays are comparable, as I've not used them, but I did get good results applying some Tamiya colours with a brush.
Regardless of whether you choose to brush-paint or spray-paint the final colours, I strongly suggest that you prime those locomotives with the Tamiya spray primer. Make sure that it's fully-cured (no odour) before applying the final colours.
Ringo58Those are great videos. I actully watched the steam locomotive video earlier today!
The On30 locomotive video was great, especially since the modeller uses the same desk mat I do!
Scalecoat makes Milwaukee Road orange, by the way.
Spray paint your model from a rattle can. Here is one of my rattle can painted locomotives. Dark gray auto primer, both Krylon and Rustoleum work well.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
DSchmittBrush Painting an On30 Steam Locomotive
That is a good video. That Liquitex Black Gesso is like magic. I was pleased he gave the wargamers props for the methods. He had brush marks in the gesso, but if he would have used the same sable brushes he used for the painting that would not have happened.
He warmed his dark gray "black" with orange, I use red, but either way it was nice to see someone stating the importance of a warm dark gray.
He also thinned his paint. I am sure if he would have used Vallejo paints and thinner it would have been even better.
His use of Future Floor Wax was spot-on for pre-decal prepping.
All-in-all, a lot of good stuff was presented in that video.
DSchmitt Brush Painting an On30 Steam Locomotive https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrEwhXpL0hfxLUAPXVXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANBMDYxNV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=brush+painting+model+trains&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=2&vid=6917c7d8a8cb1e882863e33dd22f518e&action=view How to Brush Paint Scale Models https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrJ6ytwMkhf1GgAEzlXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANBMDYxNV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=brush+painting+scale+models&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=1&vid=e31918305100a239a74bd096440166f4&action=view
Brush Painting an On30 Steam Locomotive
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrEwhXpL0hfxLUAPXVXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANBMDYxNV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=brush+painting+model+trains&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=2&vid=6917c7d8a8cb1e882863e33dd22f518e&action=view
How to Brush Paint Scale Models
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrJ6ytwMkhf1GgAEzlXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANBMDYxNV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=brush+painting+scale+models&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=1&vid=e31918305100a239a74bd096440166f4&action=view
Those are great videos. I actully watched the steam locomotive video earlier today!
Thats a real nice bf109, Kevin. I alway wanted to model a kamikaze attack with one of these and a B17. Wild stories of these things with reinforced wings cutting b17s in half. Cool story of a B17 landing with a BF109 stuck in its fuselage. Sky tanks those B17s were. I guess they call them flyingfortresses for a reason!
Brush Paint Model Aircraft
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrJ6ytwMkhf1GgAEzlXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANBMDYxNV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=brush+painting+scale+models&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=4&vid=180f6f7ff7975d5f33e3dd6613a0c5f1&action=view
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrJ6ytwMkhf1GgAEzlXNyoA;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANBMDYxNV8xBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=brush+painting+scale+models&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=6&vid=fa1edc5c785d1a0aa8bd07d38f4ee24b&action=view
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Ringo58Only 11th?! Thats seriously awesome work
You need to be best of the best to win a Games Workshop Golden Daemon. I have entered five times and never reached the top tiers.
This is not the best picture, but the Slovakian BF-109 has a green and yellow hood section that is completely brush painted. No brush marks at all. The propeller spinner is also hand painted.
On this model, I also brush painted the canopy frame to try it. I will never do that again!
It can be done, and it is a good tool to have in your skill-set, but be prepared for a lot of frustration as you go.
It is like drywall taping, I have gotten pretty good at it, but there were a few frustrating days this week as I made lots of mistakes.
SeeYou190 That model came in 11th at the 2004 Games-Workshop Golden Daemon painting contest Large Model category in Atlanta, Georgia. -Kevin
That model came in 11th at the 2004 Games-Workshop Golden Daemon painting contest Large Model category in Atlanta, Georgia.
Ringo58Thanks for the help Kevin! Thats a great looking...thing! Is it a ghost train? At first glance I thought it was a ship but it has wheels! Super cool whatever it is
I added a lot to my earlier post.
The model is a Vampire Black Coach made from an Imperial Steam Tank. On the rear deck there is a vertical boiler walking beam steam engine that I built from scratch. I also built a tender for it.
Lastspikemike Easy test spray is primer in a can. You need to prime the whole shell anyway. To start out avoid trying to paint in one coat. Numerous very thin coats work best. Spray paint is very thin and the slightest excess amounts will run a short distance and then set up, you don't want that because you have to then remove the bump and start again. Don't try to "save paint". Spray from a distance and spray past both ends of your pass. Begin spraying into empty space at the start of the pass and continue spraying after the end of the shell, that way the density of the spray actually landing on your model is consistent and not affected by the start and stop caused by pressing the button and then releasing it.
Easy test spray is primer in a can. You need to prime the whole shell anyway. To start out avoid trying to paint in one coat. Numerous very thin coats work best. Spray paint is very thin and the slightest excess amounts will run a short distance and then set up, you don't want that because you have to then remove the bump and start again.
Don't try to "save paint". Spray from a distance and spray past both ends of your pass. Begin spraying into empty space at the start of the pass and continue spraying after the end of the shell, that way the density of the spray actually landing on your model is consistent and not affected by the start and stop caused by pressing the button and then releasing it.
Ive used that technique for years building model cars. I went to paint a bachmann sd40 shell last year and it did not turn out well. I guess I forgot the techniqe and will practice more on that shell. Thanks for the tips!
Lastspikemike Spray bomb is the way to go.
Spray bomb is the way to go.
Is that a brand or a term for spray paint?
SeeYou190 1) The correct paint. Vallejo, Citadel, Turbo-Dork, Reaper-Pro, or similar paints are a must. These are water-soluable, but thinning them with water is not the best idea.
1) The correct paint. Vallejo, Citadel, Turbo-Dork, Reaper-Pro, or similar paints are a must. These are water-soluable, but thinning them with water is not the best idea.
Thanks for the help Kevin! Thats a great looking...thing! Is it a ghost train? At first glance I thought it was a ship but it has wheels! Super cool whatever it is
Overmod Ringo58 I do not own an airbrush and do not have the money or space to set it up. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells? Considering the likely cost of hobby paint that is 'brushable' in the first place and the careful thinning to consistency, use of a good spray is trivial, and even a cheap airbrush driven off compressed air cans is better still. Remember too that you would need quality brushes, and the time and care to keep them clean and shaped. That alone is the end both of any big savings overall and any time savings at cleanup! There have certainly been people who have successfully painted with a brush, and even more certainly people who weather with one. But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close. If all this does not convince you, there are YouTube videos on table paints and thinning techniques. Be VERY certain to clean parting agent or surface contamination from undecorated shells ... after which surface priming orbpromoting, with what will likely be a relatively nasty activating agent, may be advisable -- be very careful with that, and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!
Ringo58 I do not own an airbrush and do not have the money or space to set it up. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells?
Considering the likely cost of hobby paint that is 'brushable' in the first place and the careful thinning to consistency, use of a good spray is trivial, and even a cheap airbrush driven off compressed air cans is better still.
Remember too that you would need quality brushes, and the time and care to keep them clean and shaped. That alone is the end both of any big savings overall and any time savings at cleanup!
There have certainly been people who have successfully painted with a brush, and even more certainly people who weather with one. But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close.
If all this does not convince you, there are YouTube videos on table paints and thinning techniques. Be VERY certain to clean parting agent or surface contamination from undecorated shells ... after which surface priming orbpromoting, with what will likely be a relatively nasty activating agent, may be advisable -- be very careful with that, and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!
I just cant buy an airbrush right now even though I really do want one and learn how to use one. I will definitly use one in the future, but for now I am limited to rattle cans and brush. I have had very good luck with weathering with a brush (well to me I'm very happy with what I've done).
Overmod and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!
and don't think because you can't smell it that your ventilation is adequate!
I've learned that being in the auto industy. Especially with brake clean
Ringo58. Whats the best approach to hand paint these shells?
It takes the proper tools and practice. I brush paint all my wargaming models, and I do not have brush marks at all.
2) The correct thinner. I am now using Vallejo thinner for acrylic paints, and I am happy with it. All the prominent painters have their own recipes for "paint juice", but I have found the ready-mixed formula from Vallejo works well with all the paints I listed above.
Never use paints without thinning them first. Quality paints have a very high pigment load and can be thinned with no loss of performance.
3) The best brushes. I only use Winsor & Newton Series 7 hand made brushes imported from England and made with bristles harvested from Siberian Weasel tails. There are videos Winsor & Newton has on line about how these brushes are made.
4) Technique. Watch online videos and learn from the masters. Marike Reimer is my favorite painter, but there are many others. Games-Workshop used to have online how-to-paint videos, but they favor their brands over what might really be best.
Brush painting miniatures (which model trains are) is a hobby all on its own.
Overmod But I have yet to see something smaller than about O gauge that doesn't show thick, irregular, or brush-mark artifacts when seen or imaged up close.
Point out the brush marks.
tin can You might be surprised at the quality of a paint job you can get with a rattle can of spray paint. I did an Angelina and Neches River GP38-2 with rattle cans; and an ANR caboose as well. The blue paint came from Lowes; a Rustoleum color. The aluminum was a small Tamiya can I have had for a while. I am painting some details on some mineral brown Santa Fe covered hoppers I am reworking with a red primer can I got from Walmart; it is almost an exact color match. With a little weathering; the cars will be perfect. Having said that, I have a long time friend who hand paints kitbashed MP shorty cabooses. He does beautiful work. I know there is an art and a methodology to brush painting; you might do a bit of research before diving in. Regardless; good luck. Paint can be stripped if need be; I use Super Clean from Walmart; a big bottle goes a long way and costs less than $10.00. Have fun!
You might be surprised at the quality of a paint job you can get with a rattle can of spray paint. I did an Angelina and Neches River GP38-2 with rattle cans; and an ANR caboose as well. The blue paint came from Lowes; a Rustoleum color. The aluminum was a small Tamiya can I have had for a while. I am painting some details on some mineral brown Santa Fe covered hoppers I am reworking with a red primer can I got from Walmart; it is almost an exact color match. With a little weathering; the cars will be perfect.
Having said that, I have a long time friend who hand paints kitbashed MP shorty cabooses. He does beautiful work. I know there is an art and a methodology to brush painting; you might do a bit of research before diving in.
Regardless; good luck. Paint can be stripped if need be; I use Super Clean from Walmart; a big bottle goes a long way and costs less than $10.00. Have fun!
I think I will try spray on one of them to test! Thanks for the tips and the shells!