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Solder

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Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 11:00 AM

dstarr
Silver solder is another alloy. Silver solder requires much more heat than a soldering iron, you have to use a torch. And special fluxes. I have never done silver soldering. Silver soldering is closer to brazing than soft soldering.

Yes, silver solder is. If you need a metal biond that's very string between brass, copper, silver, etc it's the way to go so long as the high heat needed isn't a problem. It typically has a fairly sizable % of silver in it.

That said, silver-bearing solder is different than silver solder. It melts easily at typically soldering temps. Silver-bearing solder has a % of Ag of about 2% or less (IME, there may be ones with a higher %) in a mix with lead. The Chipquik I cited earlier is desgned for circuit board fabrication and building and is used in such industrial applications.

Radio Shack also sold some 96/4 silver-bearing lead-free solder. It's the only lead-free solder I ever found that was worth heating your iron up for. It wasn't perfect but it worked. Lead-free solder without silver is pretty useless stuff for most everything I've ever tried it on.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 10:19 AM

My house, and the municipal water supply, are all 100% plastic plumbing!

Big Smile  Big Smile  Big Smile  Big Smile  Big Smile  

The only metal in the entire system is where required by code, which in my house is only the tub valve and the mount for the shower head in the bathroom.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:13 AM

SeeYou190
 
dstarr
They make 50-50 tin lead solder, but that is only for plumbing.  The plumbers think 50-50 is stronger than 60-40

I thought plumbing required lead-free solder now.

Technically the ban came in 1974, which is a while ago.  You will have to look at the legislation to see the actual phase-out dates.  But that's been a while, too.

50/50 of course doesn't make a joint 'stronger', it improves its integrity as a leakproof seal.  That alloy is far distant from the true eutectic (at 61.9 for the simple system btw) which makes it suck for much regular soldering, but the range allows good wiped joints in the absence of fluxing, so by the time full solidus is reached some manipulation for full wetting can be achieved.

My understanding was that 63:37 is used on brass rather than something like 62:38 because there will be some leach of zinc out of the substrate which affects the metallurgy at the bond.  I'm sure there are other reasons; YMMV.  Do not laugh at apparently very small proportion and elemental changes having relatively large consequences; the same is true in other areas of metallurgy as well.

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Posted by betamax on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 6:12 AM

There is no "rounding off" with solder alloys.  You either have the eutectic 63/37 alloy or you have 60/40. Try to avoid the lead free stuff when you can.

For most model railroad soldering either alloy will do.  Just remember that soldering decoders requires the proper flux and ESD precautions to avoid damaging them. 

There are a number of videos regarding soldering out there, unfortunately many of them show bad techniques. The aforementioned Ken Patterson video is one of them. 

Tags: DCC , solder
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, July 27, 2020 11:08 PM

dstarr
They make 50-50 tin lead solder, but that is only for plumbing.  The plumbers think 50-50 is stronger than 60-40

I thought plumbing required lead-free solder now.

-Kevin

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Posted by dstarr on Monday, July 27, 2020 10:38 PM

63-37  (rounded off to 60-40) tin lead solder is what you want.  60-40 is the eutectic alloy, the alloy with the lowest melting point.  Getting the work hot enough to melt solder can be difficult at times.  You want the lowest melting point to make it easier.  They make 50-50 tin lead solder, but that is only for plumbing.  The plumbers think 50-50 is stronger than 60-40, I won't argue with them, but my solder joints using 60-40 were always plenty strong.  They make solder in various sizes and with and without flux core.  The amount of flux in flux cored solder is only enough for soldering new clean printed circuit boards, most model rail road soldering needs more flux than you get in flux core solder.  You want to have a jar of rosin flux, and just a little dab will do you, to borrow an advertising slogan. 

   Rosin flux is activated when the soldering iron melts it.  The releases the active agent to clean the work.  When the heat is removed, the flux is inactivated and is not supposed to corrode the work.  In industry we always removed the rosin flux after soldering a PC board because we worried that the flux would keep corroding things even after the heat was removed.  Trouble is, Freon was the only solvent that would cut rosin flux dependably.  EPA outlawed freon some years ago because it was depleting the ozone layer.  This led to a search for "water-wash" fluxes with only moderate success.  In my home shop I have had some success removing rosin flux with very active solvents MEK and lacquer thinner. 

Acid will also clean the oxide off the work.  They sell acid flux for soldering.  Trouble can occur because the acid remains active and keeps corroding stuff.  If you can wash the entire piece of work in hot soapy water, that will get the acid off.  You cannot immerse electrical items in hot soapy water, hence the standard advice to never use acid flux on electrical work.  I only use rosin flux for all my soldering. 

Since the anti lead freaks have become active, they have been making various kinds of lead free solder.  I don't trust any of them and I stick with 60-40 tin lead solder.

Silver solder is another alloy.  Silver solder requires much more heat than a soldering iron, you have to use a torch.  And special fluxes.  I have never done silver soldering.  Silver soldering is closer to brazing than soft soldering. 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, July 27, 2020 9:58 PM

 Fast Trackls has recommended using acid-core solder to assemble their turnouts from the beginning. BUT - they fo include a step of actually rinsing off the turnout after the soldering work is done. Not practical if you are building in place, but if using the fixtures as an alternative to commercial turnouts you cna do it. The biggest problem with acid flux and electricity is that when current flows through it, it acts like an electrolyte and corrodes the joined metals. Badly. I didn;t have a problem making a turnout using the same 63/37 rosin core solder I use for electronics. 

 The main difference between 63/37 and 60/40 is that 63/37 is eutectic - the allow freezxzes and melts all at the same tempterature. 60/40, as it cools, one component freezes before the other. If workign on somethign clamped down, like a rail joint, it makes absolutely no difference. With something you are holding in place, if you are the least bit shakey, it's easier to get a good joint using 63/37. If you move the wire being soldered on before the solder freezes completely, you get a 'cold' joint, which is weak and easily broken.

                                          --Randy

 


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Posted by mlehman on Monday, July 27, 2020 7:41 PM

BigDaddy
Just to stir the pot, Ken Patterson is a big fan of acid core flux. He doesn't use it for decoder installs, but on his garden railwary and for repairing brass locos.

Acid flux has it's place. Unless you're absolutely sure what that place is, around the average model railroad layout non-acid fluxes are much more suitable. Mostly it's electrical work and you don't want acid flux on it. Even building brass can be done without it, as I managed to not need it when I built my PSC DL-535E kits.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, July 27, 2020 7:05 PM

I found this solder about maybe twenty or so years ago.

I have used Cardas Soldering Wire Quad Eutectic Silver Solder with rosin flux from Amazon. Goes from liquid to solid faster than any other solder.

I have been soldering since about 1955.

Rich

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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, July 27, 2020 5:30 PM

Just to stir the pot, Ken Patterson is a big fan of acid core flux.  He doesn't use it for decoder installs, but on his garden railwary and for repairing brass locos.

He has a video sponsored by another publication, so you can use your youtube search skills.

Henry

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Posted by mlehman on Monday, July 27, 2020 2:02 PM

Ringo58
Can you find this brand at menards or walmart?

Probably not, but brand is not so important as specification. Used to get essentially the same thing at Radio Shack, except that is no more. I picked the Chipquik up on the internet from somewhere I don't recall. 8 oz roll was about $22 IIRC.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, July 27, 2020 1:38 PM

My recommendation would also be to get some good non-acid no-clean flux and use that in addition to the relatively little amount in the core of the solder.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, July 27, 2020 12:09 PM

Home Depot and Lowes stocks rosin core solder here in Bakersfield.



Mel


 
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Posted by Ringo58 on Monday, July 27, 2020 11:31 AM

Thanks! I was using acid core and ran into issues with it sticking. Thats all I had laying around in my toolbox. Can you find this brand at menards or walmart?

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Posted by mlehman on Monday, July 27, 2020 11:29 AM

I like using a silver-bearing solder. It's not as strong as silver solder used in jewelry making, but it is an improvement on the typical lead/tin mix. I'm currently using some Chipquik SMD3SW.031. It's rather obviously 0.031" diameter with a mix of Sn62/Pb36/Ag2. It is 2.2% flux core solder that is "No-Clean Water Washable."

Mike Lehman

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, July 27, 2020 10:45 AM

I corrected my post above... sorry for the mistake.

-Kevin

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, July 27, 2020 10:44 AM

I also use .03” diameter 40/60 rosin core, some prefer 37/63 rosin core.  Just make sure it’s rosin core.



Mel



 
My Model Railroad  
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
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I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, July 27, 2020 10:39 AM

I use 63/37 rosin core solder for track joints and feeder wires. 60/40 will work fine. I use a Weller industrial soldering station and clean the joints carefully prior to solder.

Avoid acid core solder!

I bought this 1 pound spool of 1/32" Kester brand solder following the suggestion of another member of this forum. It works very well, and I am happy with it.

-Kevin

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Solder
Posted by Ringo58 on Monday, July 27, 2020 10:00 AM

What is the best type of solder to use to solder track togeather?

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