riogrande5761 I'm not up on the spotting features of the SD7 vs. SD9, but I have noticed SD7's have a ladder on both sides of the front high hood and the SD9 only has 1 ladder.
I'm not up on the spotting features of the SD7 vs. SD9, but I have noticed SD7's have a ladder on both sides of the front high hood and the SD9 only has 1 ladder.
Actually the ladder thing varies from road to road, and time frame to time frame.
I'm not an expert on every variation, on every road, but on the B&O alone I can show you photos of every possible variation of those ladder positions or lack thereof.
Sheldon
Just got an email from one of the major Internet Retailers. It was a Bachmann promotion, they are not rivet counter quality... but;
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
GPs are 4 axle and SDs are 6. That I know but from what I looked up, SD9s and 7s are very similar but one of the big spotting differences is where the class lights are positioned. Looking back at a picture of the box this is indeed an SD9. Also funny how mine fits right into your roster!
Ringo58 richhotrain Small point, but I believe that is an SD9. Rich You're right! I honestly forgot what it was, how can you tell?
richhotrain Small point, but I believe that is an SD9. Rich
Small point, but I believe that is an SD9.
Rich
You're right! I honestly forgot what it was, how can you tell?
But, honestly, I cannot tell an SD7 from an SD9 or, for that matter, an SD from a GP without referring to prototype photos.
What caught my attention on your photo was the road number 1721. I have the 1719 and 1720 which are GP9s and the 1722 and 1723 which are SD9s. So, your 1721 caught my attention. I also have two SD7s, numbered 1661 and 1663.
Alton Junction
Ringo58 I was intimidated at first by the prices too but if you know what you want, finding it at a good cost is always a good feeling. Like this P2k sd7 in my favorite paint sceme, found at a trainshow for $40 and is by far my smoothest running engines
I was intimidated at first by the prices too but if you know what you want, finding it at a good cost is always a good feeling. Like this P2k sd7 in my favorite paint sceme, found at a trainshow for $40 and is by far my smoothest running engines
Ringo58 Like this P2k sd7 in my favorite paint sceme, found at a trainshow for $40 and is by far my smoothest running engines
Indeed. I have several of the older Life Like P2K GP7s,9s and GP38-2s. I have Atlas/Roco S-4s, Atlas Kato GP7 and RS-11s as well as Atlas Classic GP7s and RS-3s. I have BB SW7s,GP7s and 2 BB GP35s several BB GP38-2s SW1500s and RTR SSW1500s, GP38-2s and GP60Ms. I have a Kato GP35,a IM GP10, a ST operator SD40-2, a BLI SW7 and a Bachmann S-4 plus 2 brass steam engines.
80% of these engines has one thing in common..They was bought used.
I still like to switch cars with a BB SW7,GP7 or one of the two BB GP35s.
My next layout power will be either my MRC Control Master 2 or CM20 since my staem engies are DC.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Trainman440 BigDaddy We had a thread awhile ago by someone who regreted getting in the hobby because the money he spent, but he felt he was also trapped in the hobby, because of the money he spent. Sunk Cost Fallacy...when you commit to something (even if you dont want to) because you've already spent so much into it already. A classic error in human thinking.
BigDaddy We had a thread awhile ago by someone who regreted getting in the hobby because the money he spent, but he felt he was also trapped in the hobby, because of the money he spent.
We had a thread awhile ago by someone who regreted getting in the hobby because the money he spent, but he felt he was also trapped in the hobby, because of the money he spent.
Sunk Cost Fallacy...when you commit to something (even if you dont want to) because you've already spent so much into it already. A classic error in human thinking.
After starting in HO I switched to O and eventually S. None of these changes were because of cost. I just wanted something bigger than HO. Found O was too big and settled on S.
I still have all my HO and O. Plus I have bought some 3 rail O gauge and some On30 along the way. I have a test layout (5'4"x 12') where I set up temporary tracks in different scales and just run trains. I also have the "big one" in S scale under construction.
I am in the hobby to have fun. I don't consider any of the money I spent to be an investment. I just do things that appeal to me. Like a couple of years ago I bought and built an Accurail boxcar just because I was curious about it.
Enjoy
Paul
I think the hobby can be expensive when you look at someones massive bassement layout and all their super detailed scenes and locomotives, and maybe intimidates you a little , but all in all you can have a great time fot cheap. I'm building a small shelf layout in my apartment and I have done everything for under $100 so far. As for rolling stock and locomotives, theres so many options out there. I am an ebay lover and like hunting for stuff on there. For example this boxcar, bought on ebay for $7 and then painted and weathered with $.75 worth of paint from walmart.
I have learned this hobby is what you make of it
Same here, I think it's great everyone takes the time to explain everything and not push me off because I'm still a "kid"!
doctorwayneI could afford to spend more, but I wouldn't get the same enjoyment from something that didn't require any further input from me.
Wayne, For decades I enjoyed buying undecorated BB cars and painting and decaling them.
Some 40' boxcars would include names like Buffalo Creek, C&IM, A&WP, S&A, D&TSL,WAG.
Personally, I don't "get" the handwringing over the expense of our hobby. It's as expensive or as cheap as you choose to make it.
I have a handful of high-priced (in my opinion) freight cars, some decent-quality plastic locomotives, and a couple of brass locos bought at what I would consider reasonable prices. If I couldn't have afforded some (or any) of those, then I would have settled for whatever I could have afforded.
I have a lot of mid- and what nowadays would be considered low-quality rolling stock, but all of it has been upgraded to some degree, with new details and paint, and new lettering, too, which has developed into one of my favourite aspects of this hobby. I could afford to spend more, but I wouldn't get the same enjoyment from something that didn't require any further input from me.
As the man said, "If ya got 'em, smoke 'em!", or in this case, "If ya can afford 'em, buy 'em!"
Otherwise quitcher-you-know-what about the expense.
(That last remark is not directed to the O.P., by the way.)
to the Model Railroader Forums bgibbs1000!
Wayne
Random_Idea_Poster_6263Now that you say that, being a young twenty something I must be in the minority age demographic of this forum?
It has been a while since anyone tried to compile demographics of the regular forum participants. Generally, we seem to be a bit older, but there are a lot of young people here too.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
riogrande5761Atlas seems to be producing less HO stuff but used to be a bigger player in the HO field.
Jim, Atlas was bigger in N Scale for years and some joke Atlas was the Athearn of N Scale. All of my N Scale was Atlas because of the wide selection like GP7/9s SD7/9s, GP30, GP35 etc.
I never could understand why Atlas never made HO SD7/9 or the GP30/35.
rrinkerThe Average Joe rarely had anything bigger than a 4x8.
Randy, The few home layouts I visited back in the early 60 during Div 5 NMRA meets was more like 5x9' "ping pong" tables then 4x8s. My Dad's layout was a "L" dog bone along two walls..
The majority of the members at the Columbus HO model railroad club diidn't have a layout just 3-6' test tracks. Many felt a 6' test tack was needed to inspect and impove a locomotive kit drive performance.
Thinking back I don''t recall seeing that many BB engines on operation nights.. Of course back the steam was still king and 80% of the engines on the layout as steam with lots of Hobbytown FAs, PAs, RS-3s and RSD4-5s along with Tenshodo F units and some Lindsey SW7s.
BigDaddy Our demographic is mostly grumpy old men, we have plenty of complaints as it is.
Our demographic is mostly grumpy old men, we have plenty of complaints as it is.
Checked a few 1954 issue, no one was really advertising BB car kits for sale. Skipped ahead to 1967 and I found the AHC ad listed BB cars for $2.19. MAYBE 3 years earlier they could have sold for $1.49. But that's the actual selling price, not MRSP. The Accurail kits today sell for under $15 street price, even if they do carry an MSRP of $18.95.
Using those numbers, the Accurail car is $2 CHEAPER in real money cost after inflation. And they are better detailed models.
Sure, you has "Dollar Model" projects in 1964. That's about $8 today - probably not likely to build a piece of rolling stock for that unless you find some discarded trucks and couplers, but a small carstock structure? You could probably replicate it for $8 worth of card stock today.
But it's also true this has never been a truly inexpensive hobby. Look in those old issues. The Average Joe rarely had anything bigger than a 4x8. The big layouts featured back then all belonged to a doctor or some other profession that paid well above average. There are more large layouts these days built by people of more modest means than ever before.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Guys, This hobby has never been cheap even back in the day and you will plainly see this if you check the prices on HO seeker.
As examples a Penn-Line PRR L1 was $44.95 RTR or $34.50 in the kit. The Hobbytown RS-3 was sold in two kits. You bought the body kit and the the drive kit and the total cost was around $25.00.
Of course back in those days some shops allowed both layaway and charge. Of course you had to make weekly or bi-weekly payments.
Recall most skilled blue collar workers was making $100.00-125.00 weekly.
SeeYou190MOST IMPORTANTLY: Why doesn't Walthers, Trainworld, or MB Klein (Model Train Stuff) have a "Getting Started" tab out front and center on their home page?
All good points Kevin.
I like the "getting started" idea. A good better best explanation really helps a person wanting to start out. Being upfront explaining the problems someone may run into by buying low-end stuff is a non-starter if it may mean no sale at all. It's best to do one's homework before diving into anything. Buying less is more if it means having one high-quality loco over two cheap ones and avoiding frustrations of poor running. A Newby to the hobby may be at a loss as to tweaking a piece of crap to make it usable in an enjoyable way.
When I returned to the hobby I had one Atlas Trainmaster loco gold series, four #5 Walthers turnouts, three boxes of Walthers code 83 track and an Atlas 33000g propane tank car. At first, I just used an old DC transformer I had on hand. I bought all the lumber to build what I currently have but had a loop on one bench up and running pretty quickly to start. I was well on my way for under a $1000.00.
The kid and I get to a few Vancouver Canuck games each year and each one is at least a $500.00 bill. So the year I spent under a $1000.00 to launch me back into this hobby I likely spent two or three thousand on hockey games.
Like Nittany Lion, I don't budget for anything, I spend what I want but that is not a lot. One new locomotive a year has been my average. Having to juggle finances would drive me insane so I live well within my means which means I always have money in the bank for when I want something.
Crandell, my Uncle got a very impressive telescope and all the equipment that went along with it from his buddy just before his buddy passed. It had to go in the back of a pick-up with an 8' box to move it. When my Uncle died, my cousin offered it up to me. I did not take it as I knew she had no idea of its value. It is a big-ticket item and she started lending it out to Astronomy groups, she still owns it 30 years later. I think it will stay in the family for some time.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I have met people who have sunk a ton of coin into one or more hobbies. If you think this hobby is costly, try astronomy. I'm not talking about magazine subscriptions, or a cheap pair of Tasco 10 X 50 binoculars. I'm talking about a good sky atlas, a couple of cooled CCD imaging systems adapted to the optical backs of 20" reflectors or 6" apochromatic refractors. And a decent trio of eyepieces for when you don't want to do imaging. And a decent spotting scope, tracking drive, mount on which to put the tracking system, tripod heavy enough to minimize and to dampen vibrations when you touch the scope, carrying cases for everything, collimaters, filters, the cost of getting out from under the light domes of built-up and urban spaces, heaters, dew caps....I will spare you further examples.
What does a decent snow mobile and trailer cost initially, and then what is the maintenance and operating cost? Oh, and lets not forget the decent and reasonably reliable second hand half-ton to pull it all.
I would think that crocheting, fly tying, and perhaps even frugal local fishing would be doable for 'most anybody.
riogrande5761 Some are still in it for the passion. A few that come to mind are ScaleTrains, Rapido, Moloco, Arrowhead and probably Tangent.
Some are still in it for the passion. A few that come to mind are ScaleTrains, Rapido, Moloco, Arrowhead and probably Tangent.
Good point. Interestingly, you can add to this list the guys who sell you the most expensive stuff, brass. For a Santa Fe modeler, Fred Hill and Dave Allen (The Coach Yard) or Jack Vansworth (Division Point) come to mind.
BATMAN Yep, this is a lowcost hobby and I love it.
Yep, this is a lowcost hobby and I love it.
I don't track my expenses because I keep them in relative control and rarely go in for big ticket items. For instance, my locomotive fleet is sitting at 10, with 2 outstanding pre-orders, and an operational plan for my as-yet unbuilt layout looking at a fleet size of no more than 14 to 16. They all been purchased over the last 12 years, spreading that cost out significantly. Judging from the cadence of other purchases, I'd be hard pressed to say I spend more than $1500 a year.
For comparison, my other main interest is college football. I very, very rarely go to games because of the cost involved. Before there was a global pandemic, I was planning on going to PSU-Virginia Tech this year. A pair of tickets for my wife and I was going to be $600+. It was going to require two nights staying near Blacksburg, another $700+. I never worry about food costs on trips because I'm going to eat anyhow. But all the ancillary costs and gas woudl probably exceed $150. So one weekend of going to a football game would out strip my other hobby expenses. If I wanted to go to all 12 regular season games, that's a ton of money. A good season and a Rose Bowl trip would be close to $5000 right there.
I think I'll just watch the game on TV, from the train room, where that $5000 is going a looooooot further.
I think the "sticker shock:" element of Model Railroading comes from the fact that there is no way to be a full-fledged model railroader without a pretty hefty up-front buy-in.
In Wargaming, you can opt to start with De Bellis Antiquitatis (DBA), and for less that $100.00 you can have a full all-option army, the rule book, and the paints you need. Then you are ready to go to the conventons and join in all the fun.
You can grow into Flames Of War, and that multi-thousand dollar money pit as you want to.
The master of incremental marketing, Games Workshop, will get you sucked in for less that $100.00 for "everything you need to play the game", then next thing you know, your bank account is $2,000.00 lighter, and you still want more!
Short of buying a garbage quality "train set" (which I think turn off more people than they attract) how much does it really cost to get a "start-up package" to enter into model railroading?
Is there even a hobby shop around well enough stocked to get a newcomer "on the reel" if he walks in the door?
MOST IMPORTANTLY: Why doesn't Walthers, Trainworld, or MB Klein (Model Train Stuff) have a "Getting Started" tab out front and center on their home page?
On the spitfire, a plane will cast $2,000,000 but a car vonly $12,000.
rrebellThe hobby is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree. I have said this before, I use to spend way more on transportation alone, to go out to the airfield to fly my R/C planes than I do on this hobby.
Golf, sking and mountain biking cost more than MRR by a long shot. But it is all relative, you spend what you want or can. I would love to own a vintage spitfire and could probably swing it if I gave up most of the other things that make me happy. With trains, the initial outlay cost the money and there is not much outlay after you buy that expensive new locomotive. With a boat or airplane, buying the things is the cheap part!
My first car was bought brand new from the dealer for $2100.
I go to train shows, and look for the guy who has a lot of Accurail kits. I carry an updated spreadsheet of every piece of rolling stock on my layout, and usually find a Milwaukee Road boxcar that I don't have. Then, I keep a stock of Intermountain metal wheelsets and Kadee couplers to bring the kits up to my standards.
I don't even look at built-up structures. I prefer kits for my structures, so I can add lighting and details, and paint them to my liking.
Part of the price I pay for train kits is the "play value" I get from the joy of putting them together.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
rrinker As these threads are not terribly productive
Pretty much. The only thing productive is someone venting about something that bothers them.
In the middlin' past, most hobby manufacturers were in it because of their passion for the hobby. Some became the "Big" manufacturers, like Varney, Atlas and Athearn
Atlas seems to be producing less HO stuff but used to be a bigger player in the HO field.