Haven't seen good ol' Bill Murray for a while
TF
Track fiddlerRich, It's got rich chocolate, caramel, nougat, chewy... It's absolutely delicious!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TPxiXGr9nFM
Rich, It's got rich chocolate, caramel, nougat, chewy... It's absolutely delicious!
Like stealing candy from a baby!
TF, that post is lascivious, salacious, outrageous!
Rich
Alton Junction
So your telling me the seller doesn't offer returns?
Did he tell you there is something wrong with it before you bought it?
Come again! ... Now he won't return it? ....Preposterous!
Oh I think we may just have a very good case here. Just tighten up your seatbelt and hang on for the ride!
Giddy-up
I am less leery about buying something from a seller that states they do not accepts returns.
I had the same experience as Kevin a few weeks ago. I would have to agree with Douglas and Kevin. If you're a tire kicker and just decided you didn't like something, you probably won't get in a return. But if something is wrong with it and wasn't stated in the description, you will!
These sellers have to keep a good repore and high percentage rating with both eBay and their customers to continue success selling things.
I received a locomotive a few weeks ago, put it on the track and it smoked, filling the room with that electrical smell. The shell was hard to remove as I had to force it being careful not to break it to see what was wrong. The tungsten chassis was bent and split in the seams.
I immediately messaged eBay, telling them the situation and immediately they emailed me back saying they will notify the seller. It wasn't even 10 minutes later and the seller emailed me apologizing and stating that she never took the locomotive out of the box to see if it ran.
She told me to just throw it in the garbage and she will arrange my full refund. It wasn't even five minutes later and I had a refund from PayPal. I as well almost feel guilty about saving it for parts for an alike locomotive.
This seller will also get a top review from me.
SeeYou190 Update: The seller emailed me and told me to keep the refund and keep the lot of cars and the locomotive in the interest of customer satisfaction. That is beyond what I was asking for, and I feel a bit guilty, but I am going to leave him the best feedback I can come up with. -Kevin
Update:
The seller emailed me and told me to keep the refund and keep the lot of cars and the locomotive in the interest of customer satisfaction.
That is beyond what I was asking for, and I feel a bit guilty, but I am going to leave him the best feedback I can come up with.
-Kevin
Great news. I've been on both ends of those kinds of transactions, one where I was the seller and I could see the buyer's position.
Seemed like the seller originally wasn't trying to be an arse about it, he was simply having difficulty figuring out how to separate the deal.
- Douglas
This is the message the seller sent me this afternoon:
Hi,I did see your offer for the 50% refund this morning which I greatappreciate. I do take my listing of items accurately as it is a keycomponent of making online shopping reliable and trustworthy. I received a large collection of trains and they were delivered by theoriginal collector as all "working, or new" as I had originally listedthem. Granted, I have little knowledge of train equipment so I had to listthem on the information received.I thought offering the full refund andyou keeping the pieces is my best way of making amends and helping furthera good shopping experience for all buyers.Please enjoy the trains andaccept my apologies for the listing error. Thanks again forunderstanding,
Wow, That is remarkable.
Living the dream.
Hi Douglas--
Oh, your theories may be right on.
In my case, if an item is damaged I can quickly get to the "ok I don't want this" part, but I only legitimately return damaged items. More often than not I accept items that may have been a little bit mishandled by somebody and then end up reselling them myself, but I'm very honest in item descriptions. If I know something doesn't work, I state it in the listing.
If I've repaired something to look as good as new (and as strong or better--like by using wire to repair a broken plastic sunshade--then I might let the photos do the talking).
I make every effort to ship out fully intact models that run or operate well.
John
P.S. the gentleman I'm dealing with says he will accept the return, but I don't have the paypal refund just yet.
PRR8259 My returns are based upon item condition description. I have accepted "new" steam engines that were ok, but the smoke units did not work. That is not a big deal for me because I don't need smoke. Sound not working great--that can be ok if I can turn it off so I don't have to listen to it. Minor repairs--a missing driver spring on a brass steam engine--can be ok, because I have actually learned how to do relatively minor repairs like that. If the engine is what I want cosmetically, ie undamaged otherwise, then I can make the repairs. Cracks in the body of something that was going to be my "best" or "favorite" engine on hand, of all the ones in my loco roster, are indeed troubling. I want it to be right. If it's not right it has to go back. I've done maybe 8 returns in the last 10 years, even have fixed or tried to fix stuff that was damaged in shipping, sometimes with good results, and sometimes not so good. One never knows quite how well the repair will turn out. There is one Ebay seller that sent me a piece of junk Intermountain item (can't remember exactly what the item was). He did flip out on me for not really any good reason regarding that item and has "banned" me from buying anything of his. He's also one of those clowns that does not actually have the item in his own inventory but always has to get it from Intermountain, and of course he's selling the items Intermountain apparently is having difficulty getting rid of (like Mexican roadname freight cars, excepting the apparently in demand autorack). I've got well over 100 orders with MBK, and only ever returned two or three items (last was a damaged-in-shipping Athearn SD-50). Trainworld I do not buy from anymore because their shipping was horrible; they damaged items sent to me with horrible, actually non-existent packing (throw Athearn Genesis steamer in a larger box with no cushion whatsoever and expect it to not break) and they've flat out lied to me with regard to which version an LGB engine was that I bought from them (so I spent $1300 or more for the junk version that experienced gearbox failures constantly ie twice in less than one year). "New" to TW apparently means they can drag it around to shows, let the box get dog-eared, let multiple people handle and sometimes damage the item, and then they still sell it as "new" but give you quite a bit of smart-alek big city attitude if you ask any questions at all. John
My returns are based upon item condition description.
I have accepted "new" steam engines that were ok, but the smoke units did not work. That is not a big deal for me because I don't need smoke. Sound not working great--that can be ok if I can turn it off so I don't have to listen to it.
Minor repairs--a missing driver spring on a brass steam engine--can be ok, because I have actually learned how to do relatively minor repairs like that. If the engine is what I want cosmetically, ie undamaged otherwise, then I can make the repairs.
Cracks in the body of something that was going to be my "best" or "favorite" engine on hand, of all the ones in my loco roster, are indeed troubling. I want it to be right. If it's not right it has to go back.
I've done maybe 8 returns in the last 10 years, even have fixed or tried to fix stuff that was damaged in shipping, sometimes with good results, and sometimes not so good. One never knows quite how well the repair will turn out.
There is one Ebay seller that sent me a piece of junk Intermountain item (can't remember exactly what the item was). He did flip out on me for not really any good reason regarding that item and has "banned" me from buying anything of his. He's also one of those clowns that does not actually have the item in his own inventory but always has to get it from Intermountain, and of course he's selling the items Intermountain apparently is having difficulty getting rid of (like Mexican roadname freight cars, excepting the apparently in demand autorack).
I've got well over 100 orders with MBK, and only ever returned two or three items (last was a damaged-in-shipping Athearn SD-50).
Trainworld I do not buy from anymore because their shipping was horrible; they damaged items sent to me with horrible, actually non-existent packing (throw Athearn Genesis steamer in a larger box with no cushion whatsoever and expect it to not break) and they've flat out lied to me with regard to which version an LGB engine was that I bought from them (so I spent $1300 or more for the junk version that experienced gearbox failures constantly ie twice in less than one year). "New" to TW apparently means they can drag it around to shows, let the box get dog-eared, let multiple people handle and sometimes damage the item, and then they still sell it as "new" but give you quite a bit of smart-alek big city attitude if you ask any questions at all.
Here's what I'm thinking lately. Some retailers say that if an item is defective, they won't take it back and its the buyer's responsibility to send it to the manufacturer. They are not responsible for factory defects, like in my case a bad speaker.
Maybe folks are returining the items under liberal "simply changed my mind" policy (not item is defective) because they will get a refund by saying that instead of telling the truth that the item is defective. So then the retailer resells the defective item again.
Or, some customer switches out a bad part of an existing loco with a new loco they just purcahsed, then takes advantage of the liberal return policy and sends back the item.
I swear that some of the items I have bought from online retailers with liberal return policies sold me an item that was monkeyed with, maybe not even knwoing it was monkeyed with because they accept returns simply upon request.
I've had one retailer in the past refuse my return request by quoting "we've been taken by buyers in the past". I don't remember my exact problem, but I do remember in fell into a gray area, and I perfectly understood his reasons for not granting by return request.
Reminds me of back in early days of the Life Like cracked gear fiasco when LL handed out replacement wheel sets like candy upon request. Included new wheels too. I often wondered how many people requested new gears just to replace their old cintered wheelsets on their Athearn BB locos, when they never even has a LL P2K with cracked gears. I remember reading several years later that LL stopped that practice because they were handing out more replacement gears and wheelsets than they originally sold.
So I always have this idea that buyers screw over sellers way way more often than sellers screw over buyers.
JMO.
SeeYou190 I am in a weird situation right now on eBay and need some advice on how to handle it. I am adding to this discussion because it is in the "returns on eBay" bucket. I bought a "lot" of items on eBay last week (multiple items in a single auction) that were delivered yesterday. Included in the lot was a locomotive that I was only so-so interested in. There were also several freight cars that I really wanted. The seller was asking $150.00 which was way too high. I offered $70.00 which he accepted. $70.00 was a fair price. The items arrived. The freight cars were all just fine. However the locomotive was missing the handrails and detail parts. The locomotive also did not run. I opened it up and found the motor had a melted commutator, and the wheels were worn down. My guess is that a previous owner bought this locomotive as a donor for another one, and swapped the chassis. The shell is mint/perfect. I sent the seller an email last night asking for a 50% refund because the locomotive is not good, but I still want the freight cars. He issued me a full refund, including shipping, and is asking for all items to be returned. I do not want to return all items. I have exchanged another email with him. He says from his end it is easier to cancel the whole sale and he will relist the freight cars when he gets them back. What should I do? -Kevin
I am in a weird situation right now on eBay and need some advice on how to handle it. I am adding to this discussion because it is in the "returns on eBay" bucket.
I bought a "lot" of items on eBay last week (multiple items in a single auction) that were delivered yesterday. Included in the lot was a locomotive that I was only so-so interested in. There were also several freight cars that I really wanted.
The seller was asking $150.00 which was way too high. I offered $70.00 which he accepted. $70.00 was a fair price.
The items arrived. The freight cars were all just fine. However the locomotive was missing the handrails and detail parts. The locomotive also did not run. I opened it up and found the motor had a melted commutator, and the wheels were worn down. My guess is that a previous owner bought this locomotive as a donor for another one, and swapped the chassis. The shell is mint/perfect.
I sent the seller an email last night asking for a 50% refund because the locomotive is not good, but I still want the freight cars.
He issued me a full refund, including shipping, and is asking for all items to be returned. I do not want to return all items.
I have exchanged another email with him. He says from his end it is easier to cancel the whole sale and he will relist the freight cars when he gets them back.
What should I do?
That's a tough call because both you and the seller are probably trying to establish a value for the crappy loco that's separate from the whole lot. You're saying that you based 50% of your bid upon the loco you didn't think was crap, and maybe he's thinking that his freight cars are worth 80% of the total sales price.
Without seeing how the lot was described, it seems like each of you has decent support for your position.
I think ebay policy would say that if the item(s) are not as described, you deserve a full refund. Except you don't want that and want a different deal. Tough call.
Maybe back down to asking for a partial refund of 25 to 30% instead of half, and be happy you got the cars you wanted.
Bottom line, I think his offer of the full refund falls within the ebay policy, but I would think that he would have to figure that any other subsequent buyer is going to have the same issue with the crappy loco as you did, and would want something refunded. So I would think you could get something refunded if you asked for a little less.
DoughlessNah, if I was directing something at you, I'm not shy about using the quote function.
OK. I try not to jump into the middle of other people's conversations.
rrebell Doughless SeeYou190 As a side note, interesting policy Train World has. Buyers who have "frequent returns" are banned from shopping at TW. TW accually says you have to pay shipping, even if item defective. Luckily everything I have ever gotten from them was great.
Doughless SeeYou190 As a side note, interesting policy Train World has. Buyers who have "frequent returns" are banned from shopping at TW.
SeeYou190
As a side note, interesting policy Train World has. Buyers who have "frequent returns" are banned from shopping at TW.
TW accually says you have to pay shipping, even if item defective. Luckily everything I have ever gotten from them was great.
Yes, that is also their policy, and I don't blame them. I guess they are encouraging only itmes that are defective as being returable items, without actually sayng it that harshly. I'm willing to spend $12 to ship and item back if I receive my $200 back for the POS I bought. If that is disclosed as policy, then I know that going in and willing to make that deal.
If I were to by something then return it because I don't like the shade of blue. I might not want to risk spending the $15 on shipping for something I just want to chaeck out and see if it runs or looks like I expected. (Although, they have a 12% restocking fee for probably such circumstances)
I should travel to NYC and test the item at the store if I wanted to do that, rather than buy it then return it.
As far as purchases, I have purchased 7 locos from them in the past 9 months, and returned 3 of them due to defectivness. A bad speaker, and two items with broken handrails. I don't blame TW though, I blame Athearn. Never had those types of problems with Atlas products, regardless where they were purchased.
That's what made me think of TW's excessive return policy. Wondering if returning 3 of 7 items put me into the "frequent returner" definition. No problmes so far.
Doughless SeeYou190 Doughless I'm still not getting the problem. Defective items are covered under the EBAY buyer protection policy. Hi Douglas, not sure if your post was directed towards me or not. I was only stating that I do get defective items from time to time (rarely), not that I was unable to get a refund, eventually. The ebay buyer protection system has worked for me when normal requests to the seller did not. -Kevin Nah, if I was directing something at you, I'm not shy about using the quote function. But yours may have been added to an environment that implied a buyer is more likley to get a defective item from a seller who doesn't accept returns. (Not that you were making that assumption) As a general rule, I don't think that assumption is accurate. As a seller and buyer on ebay, I have had many more problems with buyers than sellers. If I accepted returns, it would encourage buyers, say, to win a bidding war, then return the item for what ever reason they wanted (including sleeping on it then waking up realizing they spent too much). Turns out to be nothing but a big waste of time for him, me , and the other bidders. My 7 day listing just became fodder for somebody's emotions. I recently sold an item to a buyer who won a bidding war and paid $280 for a loco I spent $130 to buy. I think its a good thing that I don't accept returns. Good thing I described the item properly. A reason that some may get defective items from buyers is because the seller never described the item correctly or with enough detail to begin with. If they say, runs great, and the buyer finds out it doesn't run great, then the seller is responsible. Of course, "great" may be in the eye of the beholder. In this case, the issue is not whether or not the seller accepts returns, its whether the seller described the item clearly or the buyer was willing to buy somehting with a judgmental description. Buyer is taking the risk. As a side note, interesting policy Train World has. Buyers who have "frequent returns" are banned from shopping at TW.
SeeYou190 Doughless I'm still not getting the problem. Defective items are covered under the EBAY buyer protection policy. Hi Douglas, not sure if your post was directed towards me or not. I was only stating that I do get defective items from time to time (rarely), not that I was unable to get a refund, eventually. The ebay buyer protection system has worked for me when normal requests to the seller did not. -Kevin
Doughless I'm still not getting the problem. Defective items are covered under the EBAY buyer protection policy.
Hi Douglas, not sure if your post was directed towards me or not.
I was only stating that I do get defective items from time to time (rarely), not that I was unable to get a refund, eventually.
The ebay buyer protection system has worked for me when normal requests to the seller did not.
Nah, if I was directing something at you, I'm not shy about using the quote function. But yours may have been added to an environment that implied a buyer is more likley to get a defective item from a seller who doesn't accept returns. (Not that you were making that assumption) As a general rule, I don't think that assumption is accurate.
As a seller and buyer on ebay, I have had many more problems with buyers than sellers. If I accepted returns, it would encourage buyers, say, to win a bidding war, then return the item for what ever reason they wanted (including sleeping on it then waking up realizing they spent too much). Turns out to be nothing but a big waste of time for him, me , and the other bidders. My 7 day listing just became fodder for somebody's emotions.
I recently sold an item to a buyer who won a bidding war and paid $280 for a loco I spent $130 to buy. I think its a good thing that I don't accept returns. Good thing I described the item properly.
A reason that some may get defective items from buyers is because the seller never described the item correctly or with enough detail to begin with.
If they say, runs great, and the buyer finds out it doesn't run great, then the seller is responsible. Of course, "great" may be in the eye of the beholder. In this case, the issue is not whether or not the seller accepts returns, its whether the seller described the item clearly or the buyer was willing to buy somehting with a judgmental description. Buyer is taking the risk.
As a seller and buyer on ebay, I have had many more problems with buyers than sellers. If I accepted returns, it would encourage buyers, say, to win a bidding war, then return the item for what ever reason they wanted (including sleeping on it then waking up realizing they spent too much). Turns out to be nothing but a big waste of time for him, me , and the other bidders. My patient, 7 day listing just became fodder for somebody's emotions in the last 5 minutes.
Normally, I absolutely refuse to buy ANYTHING from a seller who won't accept returns, and this is WHY:
In my latest Ebay purchase, either I goofed and missed that, or the seller changed the auction after I bought, to not accept returns. It looks like I goofed and messed up big time this time.
I bought a BLI Santa Fe 4-8-4, actually number 3751, Paragon 3, latest run.
Smokestack does NOT fit right. Someone not only turned it on a lathe (it is still out of round), to make it fit "better", but it still won't fit flush (appears to be hitting smoke unit which is slightly out of alignment inside the boiler). It was also force-fit and has cracked the smoke box!
This item is not "new" or "mint".
Seller is 82, and bought it for his grandchildren. Clearly knows very little about trains.
I took the nice and civil approach of keeping things respectful. I even offered to eat the shipping cost BOTH ways if he'd refund my money for just the engine, which he agreed to do.
Now he has received the engine back, claims there is no crack when there actually is (his eyes are 82) and refuses to give me my money back. Stated last night he is sending the item BACK to me.
I immediately contacted Ebay to go through THEIR formal return policy, which is going to be a major hassle, to get MY money ($290 for just the engine, and I'm out more than $40 shipping) back.
Also, his shipping was horrible. Threw item into box with 3 or 4 pieces of crumped up paper. The BLI box was freely bouncing around inside the shipping box when I got the model the first time. By a miracle it had only one damaged corner.
If I don't get satisfaction from Ebay, I will out the seller and post his name on here for everyone to see, so they don't buy trains from him.
The crack is a hairline and I didn't think I could get a good photo of it. Stack will not fit flush as is supposed to but remains loose even if you try to force it tight.
John Mock
E-bay is a crap shoot, but I'd never purchase anything without a return policy.
I'd never get a loco 2nd-hand. Having been burned with a used car, I refuse to get anything motorized old.
DoughlessI'm still not getting the problem. Defective items are covered under the EBAY buyer protection policy.
I'm still not getting the problem.
Defective items are covered under the EBAY buyer protection policy.
There is ample room for a clear decription of the item. Pictures also help describe the item.
If its defective, or arrives broken, or in any way different than how it was described, then the buyer claims the item is "Not as described", and the seller must refund the money AND pay return shipping.
Even if the seller "does not accept returns".
There is a gray area. That is when the seller described things not too clearly. Or waivers on condition. Or doesn't inlcude enough pictures. Or descibed it as New when it is not, etc.
But that is about a buyer gambling on something..buying based upon poor or unclear descriptions...making assumptions about the condition etc....that wasn't in the description.
If you're unclear, unsure, etc. its probably because that's how the item was presented. Don't buy.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the seller's return policy.
PRR8259If you only buy from people who accept returns, you are LESS likely to receive a defective item.
I have also found this to be true, but my sampling size is mighty small. The only defective items I have received (2 or 3) were from sellers not taking returns.
I also think that when a seller says "this item has not been tested, so I do not know if it works or not" actually means "I tested it and it does not work".
It amazes me that some sellers can test functional locomotives, and mark them as "tested and works correctly", but other locomotives from the same seller are "untested because I cannot test this type of item.
I buy and sell on Ebay often.
I routinely offer returns--if you don't, the items don't sell very well.
I refuse to buy from ANY seller that does not offer returns. I just recently made a mistake and goofed--and seller did not know the item nearly as well as I do. In fact the seller is not into trains at all. I got a defective item and am trying to return it for a refund, but I'll be out more than $50 shipping for both directions.
If you only buy from people who accept returns, you are LESS likely to receive a defective item.
Many folk selling on ebay or for that matter at shows are not "train people" They buy estates and anything they think they can make a profit on and sell it at those venues. They might run it back and forth on a piece of track to see if it runs, but judging its running qualities is where the "but" comes in. As our perception of how it runs maybe different than theirs. The no return part is about the same as buying a model and taking it home, then trying to return it(used engines). IMHO, the best looking dockside outside of a brass one is the old AHM/Rivarossi version. But it has deep flanges, so code 100 track only. The older Varney that has had the valve gear upgrades done looks good as well and pulls much better. But finding one with the correct upgraded valve gear is not that easy and you cant just go out and buy those parts these days. A brass one is the top of the line route and once remotored with a modern can motor, will outperform all the others. I dont let the "no returns" dictate whether I buy or not. I let my own judgement of the model do the talking, its not a perfect system but works most of the time. Mike the Aspie
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
I’ve been selling stuff recently. The “no return“ is the default from Ebay.
Bing MattsonHow can they sell something that cheap w/free shipping?
We can't discuss the reason for that in here because it will lead to a political discussion, and that is not allowed.
You can easily find the answer from online news sources.
Do be aware that you often cannot return things shipped from China, as
1. it often takes more than 30 days to even ship to you, sometimes the return option expires
2. its a pain to ship things internationally, and often not worthwhile.
Charles
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLb3FRqukolAtnD1khrb6lQ
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I volunteer on a tourist RR and last Jan my wife ordered me a new conductor hat , from China. She just asked for a refund as a no show, (Jan. to Aug).
On the other hand I ordered two volt/amp meters from China, got them in two weeks or less. Cost was $0.35 each with free shipping. How can they sell something that cheap w/free shipping? It defies reason in my mind. Guess the world is wacky, but I've still got my trains and NOTHING EVER goes wacky in that world.
I