I think I got it--a 4x8 Layout

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

About the "garages": It seems like it would be just as easy to turn those three tracks off the main (that become "garages") into a three-track yard that would serve exactly the same purpose (storing trains offline) but would be a lot easier to build. It would work kind of like a staging yard (a yard where model railroaders store complete trains, "made up" to run during an op session) but in plain sight rather than off the layout.

The more I've been thinking about it, the more I think it should be more like a "working" layout with a pseudo yard. From the "What do your kids like?" post, I'm figuring that the kids want to do the switching cars, etc.

QUOTE: The concept of "parking entire trains" is railroad operation's dirty little secret--model railroaders do it in places off the layout. But since your priority is sending these three little trains on their way, a "visible staging" yard might be an ideal solution--and when you (and your daughter) are wanting a more "advanced" way to deal with trains, it would be easy to turn it into a classification yard.

If I pull the three turnouts from the spurs, I have 5 available. It just seems like a small space for a yard. I would like to keep each of the trains on the track, but I have several extra freight and passenger cars that could sit in the yard, or used for that matter now that the grade is less steep. The idea of being able to turn off the block under their "sleeping" area is appealing.

QUOTE: I know this is a "learning layout" for you--but one lesson you'd learn from building this plan is "don't put switches under the mountain!", as well as "don't put stub-end sidings inside of tunnels!" They're inaccessible, which means you WILL (that murphy's law thing we talked about earlier) spend a lot of time extracting derailed equipment from tunnels and cursing.

I had already thought about the problem with the spurs. My plan was to put a RR sign at the point where the nose of the engine would be when there was about an inch to the bumper. I had not thought about the turnouts assuming I could with work, get then reliable before I put the mountain on top of them. I had planned to have access to that area from underneath. I'll see what I can do to get them out of doors--however, the logical place to put it will be harder to reach in a relatively inaccessible corner between the mountain and the wall.

I need to redesign it again I'm afraid.

QUOTE: I'll put on my thinking cap and see if I can point you to something that has that folded-figure-eight with an inner loop and a three-track yard where your trains can sleep!

Any help at all will be appreciated.

QUOTE: Speaking of which, how's your progress with "Track Planning for Realistic Operation"?

It is pretty dense. I've pretty much waded through the theoretical stuff and just about to start the layouts. I don't really get it yet if that is what you are asking.

[Jetrock]

About the "garages": It seems like it would be just as easy to turn those three tracks off the main (that become "garages") into a three-track yard that would serve exactly the same purpose (storing trains offline) but would be a lot easier to build. It would work kind of like a staging yard (a yard where model railroaders store complete trains, "made up" to run during an op session) but in plain sight rather than off the layout.

The concept of "parking entire trains" is railroad operation's dirty little secret--model railroaders do it in places off the layout. But since your priority is sending these three little trains on their way, a "visible staging" yard might be an ideal solution--and when you (and your daughter) are wanting a more "advanced" way to deal with trains, it would be easy to turn it into a classification yard.

I know this is a "learning layout" for you--but one lesson you'd learn from building this plan is "don't put switches under the mountain!", as well as "don't put stub-end sidings inside of tunnels!" They're inaccessible, which means you WILL (that murphy's law thing we talked about earlier) spend a lot of time extracting derailed equipment from tunnels and cursing.

I'll put on my thinking cap and see if I can point you to something that has that folded-figure-eight with an inner loop and a three-track yard where your trains can sleep!

Speaking of which, how's your progress with "Track Planning for Realistic Operation"?

[Anonymous]

Oh,

By the way, if you do put in DCC, use Bachmann's E-Z DCC system. You can buy it for $95.00 (Manufacturer) or $65.00 (Street and Trainworld), or you can buy it with a locomotive for $140.00.

If you buy that, it will come with a desil with a choice of 3 road name. There is Santa Fe, Chessie, and Norfolk and Southern. Bachmann also has some desils already equipped with DCC for aroun $24.00 (Street and Trainworld) to $44.00.

If you buy IHC locomotives, Decoders are really easy to intall in them, even thoguh they are not DCC ready.

All you need is a locomotive, decoder and wires, and a soldering iron. I recommend the cold heat soldering iron.

Have fun with the layout.

Keep in touch through e-mail.

Nick

[Anonymous]

Hey Ya'll

That sounds great. Hor Hogwarts and Diagon Alley, you might want to consider 2 removable side boards for them, so you don't have to cram them on the 4x8.

Nick

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

Neat idea chip, are you leaving the trains intact when you park them. If not I like turntable idea from Jetrock. If you are cool layout. How is your son doing, having a blast I hope. And your daughter how is her train coming.

Tim

The trains will remain intact. My daughter is the big surprize. On a whim I got her a 4-4-0 that she will drive at home. She has become quite involved with building the "Kings Crossing" station. She has also picked out a cabin which will be Hagrid's house.

The big surpise is that today when I reminded my wife about the MMR club meeting tonight she told me that my daughter was expecting to go. She doesn't know it yet, but I'm going to give her the 4-8-4 for her "club" locomotive. The club has a bunch of decoders that they purchased for $15 so we'll set her up with one of those, and I have a ton of modern freight cars for her to weather...

[SpaceMouse]

Jetrock,

QUOTE: It does seem like an awful lot of loops without much particular purpose...

That sentence caused me pause when I first read it and I have been thinking about it all day.

It made me think that in order to keep the kids' attention, I have to have a reason or something to do for each section of track--just like adults do with the yards, industries and other operations. I designed it the way I did because kids like tunnels and bridges. Now I realize I have to provide a fantasy for them become involved in and give them a reason to go to each area of the track.. Like Diagon Alley and Gringots Bank.

[SpaceMouse]

Hmmm,

I appreciate the comments. This design was done entirely with my son in mind--well not exactly, I'll explain in a sentence or two. Autistic kids for some reason like repetitive action. However, he would tire of a single loop, slower with a double loop and slower yet with more options. I tried to think of trains when I was a kid and I always wanted more to do. I put three garages in this layout just to establish a sense of ownership and putting the trains to bed when they are done. All the trains in this layout will be short--engine plus 2-4 cars.

This is a learning track for the three of us. For all of us, I wanted a bunch of turnouts, so that we could learn to think ahead, etc. (although, I can see thekids flipping each others switches and them getting mad.) I'll build the elevations and landscape and make mistakes and my daughter will build the structures and learn those techniques and my son will run the trains. Mostly my son will run the trains while the big track is being built.

In the bigger table there will be a roundhouse and yard and industries and a town. The bigger track will be where Hogwarts wiil be (my daughter's real interest is Harry Potter.) But if we make a Hogwart's model before the big track is ready, it will probably bide its time in the upper loop shown above.

I will probably put DCC in, but only because when I put it in the bigger track, I will just have to run a couple wires over a door to make the little track work. So for a while at least. The kids will be able to run two trains on this layout. Again, they wil have to learn to drive together and I rather they make their mistakes together. When you learn how to cooperate, you will be able to run your trains on the big track.

So ifrom an operational point, this track makes no sense. But in a sense of letting kids play (and me testing stuff)--well that's waht it was designed for. But while the other track is being built, I can explain why I'm doing certain things, and how the big track will work differently, etc. and maybe I'll get the kids more involved with the operations.

Right now, the only thing the kids are concerned about is stopping at the trrain station, picking up Harry Potter and taking him to Hogwarts.

[Jetrock]

It does seem like an awful lot of loops without much particular purpose...I assume that the circle on the left is the hill where Hogwarts will go, but why are there so many concentric loops?--I note that the Hogwarts loop forms a "folded figure eight" double loop, and then there's an inner loop, and then there's a big sort of passing track thing that goes from one part of the outer loop to another part of the same loop, and then a pair of crossovers (one of which appears to be mostly inside of a tunnel.)

If you want a pair of loops (one for son, one for daughter) and an engine storage facility, there are easier ways to do it. Here's an example:

(Taken from www.thortrains.net)
You could even add that vital "Hogwarts loop" to this plan by adding a switch to the right side of the passing track, reversing the direction of the spur switch on the lower right side, and running a curve between them. This plan is even done in EZ-Track so you could use your EZ-Track stuff up...

[TurboOne]

Neat idea chip, are you leaving the trains intact when you park them. If not I like turntable idea from Jetrock. If you are cool layout. How is your son doing, having a blast I hope. And your daughter how is her train coming.

Tim

[Jetrock]

One thing to consider: Instead of three separate turnouts for engine storage, have one turnout going in the other direction leading to a turntable and a three-stall roundhouse. It will take up less space and look nice too. If you don't feel up to a turntable, you can use a three-way switch instead.

[SpaceMouse]

You will notice there are three colors.

Blue: ground level zero--EZ track

Pink: Ground Level zero: EZ track inside tunnel

Brown: elevated: Atlas 100--outside brown elevation loop goes up; inside elevation goes down



Each of the spurs going underground will be wired on their own block so that trains can be parked and turned off. My kids and I can take turns driving our own trains.

The grades will be supported by plywood on risers except accros the front where the track will be on risers.

The top loop circles the mountain. Inside the lower loop will be the townees. Just rocks and trees and a few structures.

No industry--No yard, (although I have 3 extra turnouts and no place to park Lil Guy.) These trains basically park in a garage for service.