AntonioFP45But they tended to grime up rather quickly.
Sure did:
Amtrak_631-641_DC-3-23-79 by Edmund, on Flickr
[Click to go to Flickr where you can enlarge the photo quite a bit]
Amtrak_SDP2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
riogrande5761 .......................I don't think I've seen any photo's with the white wrapped chains but most of the photo's I've looked at are western.
.......................I don't think I've seen any photo's with the white wrapped chains but most of the photo's I've looked at are western.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
AntonioFP45RioGrande - Here's a shot that I got from a modeler a while back, but it's sparse on details. Something I had not even realized in looking at more photos. I had become used to seeing the white wrapped nose "smile chains" on the SDP40F's that I saw regularly in my young railfanning days. I had not realized that most of the SDP40F fleet had originally been equipped with chains were actually wrapped in black. Always something new for me to learn!
That photo may be from the first year of operation before the ice breakers were installed. Number 629 looks pretty new in that photo. The baggage car appears to be a "rainbow" scheme from one of the private roads not yet repained in Amtrak paint. There were a few like that when the SDP40F's were first in use.
I don't think I've seen any photo's with the white wrapped chains but most of the photo's I've looked at are western.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Oldengineman - that is so cool that you got to operate an SDP40F! I did get a cab ride in one and yes, it was more spacious than an F40PH's cab.
RioGrande - Here's a shot that I got from a modeler a while back, but it's sparse on details.
Something I had not even realized in looking at more photos. I had become used to seeing the white wrapped nose "smile chains" on the SDP40F's that I saw regularly in my young railfanning days. I had not realized that most of the SDP40F fleet had originally been equipped with chains were actually wrapped in black. Always something new for me to learn!
The only time I got to run an SDP40 was at the end of 1979, when I was a fireman on the New Haven extra board (for Conrail).
I got called for the evening hostling job at Cedar Hill yard, by the old (and still standing) concrete coal tower. They still had an engine terminal there at the time, not long afterwards I believe it was closed.
New Haven still had a pretty good Amtrak diesel shop back then, and they were rebuilding some of the remaining SDP40's one-at-a-time. They weren't used on the Shore Line any more, I remember asking about them and one of the guys said that they were hard on the track. But the NH shop did the rebuilds and sent them back out west and south where they were still being run.
One was at the engine house that evening, waiting to go out, and the foreman needed it moved, so I got up and looked around.
I recall how spacious the cab was, after being on F-40's. Much more room, perhaps because the rear wall was "further back" from the seat. I still remember thinking it was as big as a living room!
I went back inside to get the hand brake, lots of room back there, too. There were two steam generators and a big water tank -- a BIG tank. I'm wondering if the water sloshing around in the tanks of two units coupled back-to-back could have been the source of the derailment problems that they had with them.
Anyhow, I moved it around a little, put the brake back on, and got off. I seem to recall the number "640" -- it's been 41 years. That was the only time I ever worked the hostling job at Cedar Hill.
I still think of that engine as quite a piece of machinery. I don't recall ever seeing another one in my career on the railroad...
I see in your photos #629 is in phase 3 paint without the icebreakers. Id guess when it was repainted was after mid-1980 when the San Francisco Zephyr was re-equipped with F40PHs and Superliner EQ.
I wonder if #629 ever ran in pointless arrow without the icebreakers as you plan to model? Might have been they were removed when 629 was shopped and repainted and reassigned to the southeast. I've read that most of the SDP40Fs that were repainted to phase 3, were repainted in the 1980/81 time frame.
Maybe the choice would be to renumber a Genesis Phase 3 SDP40F to #629 if that engine never ran in Phase 1 without the icebreakers. Or were they removed before repainting to phase 3? If so, it probably didn't run in that configuration long. Are there any post SFZ photos of #629 in phase 1 without icebreakers as you propose to model?
Wow so much great information from everyone here, I really like learning locomotive history from such great people here.
You simply can't learn this stuff from books or the internet.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Hi Rio Grande,
Yep.....629 became a regular on the Silver Star and Silver Meteor. These are shots I took of her on the Silver Star. Phase III, minus icecutter sporting a K5LA. The SCL engineer climbng into her cab is Murray Thomas (r.i.p). A very pleasant gentleman.
Interestingly, an Amtrak station agent that I knew back then commented to me that the "West Coast trains" always seemed to get the newer equipment first. May explain why 628, 629, 611, 618, 622, 632, 634, 639, and some others were gradually transferred over to the still, steam-heated east coast trains. But....as a railfan there were zero complaints from me!
riogrande5761 SDP40F 629 was part of the pool regularly assigned to the Amtrak San Francisco Zephyr. I am not aware if it ever ran on a south or south eastern Amtrak train. But Athearn has produced 3 previous runs and many are still available and it's quite possible road numbers on one of those runs were used on those trains. Shame to cut the antlers off of #629 which used them over Donner Pass. I waited several years for Athearn to finally run the SFZ road numbers (4th run of SDP40Fs).
SDP40F 629 was part of the pool regularly assigned to the Amtrak San Francisco Zephyr. I am not aware if it ever ran on a south or south eastern Amtrak train. But Athearn has produced 3 previous runs and many are still available and it's quite possible road numbers on one of those runs were used on those trains. Shame to cut the antlers off of #629 which used them over Donner Pass. I waited several years for Athearn to finally run the SFZ road numbers (4th run of SDP40Fs).
riogrande5761I am not aware if it ever ran on a south or south eastern Amtrak train.
I've seen pictures of them on the Floridian, Champion, and Silver Meteor.
Motley This is a really great thread, I am learning alot about the SDP40Fs. You guys gave me some great ideas for an Amtrack trains to use at Denver Union Station. I really like the ice breakers on top! I will probably model 2 Amtrack trains, the Superliner cars, and the Amtrack streamliner cars I wanted to model the D&RGW Ski Train, (Rapido has some Ski Train passengers cars suppose to be released soon) they used the SDP40Fs, does anybody know if SDP40Fs are available in D&RGW?
This is a really great thread, I am learning alot about the SDP40Fs. You guys gave me some great ideas for an Amtrack trains to use at Denver Union Station. I really like the ice breakers on top!
I will probably model 2 Amtrack trains, the Superliner cars, and the Amtrack streamliner cars
I wanted to model the D&RGW Ski Train, (Rapido has some Ski Train passengers cars suppose to be released soon) they used the SDP40Fs, does anybody know if SDP40Fs are available in D&RGW?
I am modeling two Amtrak trains as well. Amtrak California Zephyr ran with Superliner cars and has evolved over the years from Phase 2 paint to Phase 3 and later. For over 10 years, the Amtrak CZ was pulled by F40PH's in mostly phase 3 paint, until replaced with the GE diesels sometime in the mid-late 1990's.
The San Francisco Zephyr bypassed the D&RGW except for a re-route or two when there was a derailment on the UP. It did run between Cheyenne WY and Denver and on to Chicago. It was pulled by pointless arrow SDP40F's and heritage equipment such as ex-Santa Fe baggage cars, and baggage-dorms, coaches, lounges, diners and sleeper drawn from former Santa Fe, SP, UP, California Zephyr and a few other roads. It was basically an interesting dogs breakfast of passenger cars.
The San Francisco Zephyr SDP40F's were drawn mainly from road numbers 582-587 and 622-629. That is why this recent run with 583, 586, 625 and 629 all have ice-breakers, because they ran over Donner Pass where ice cycles often hung from tunnel openings during the winter.
As for dome cars, reportedly the SP banned most domes from Donner Pass and only ran allowed the former SP 3/4 domes and a few lower profile eastern domes. But in the late 1970's, the clearances were improved in anticipation of the planned Superliner cars so regular domes could be seen on the SFZ train in the late 1970s. I've hunted down a couple of the former NP domes painted for Amtrak Phase 1 and Phase 2 paint since they were used on the San Francisco Zephyr along with occasional use of former CZ or CB&Q domes.
AntonioFP45 Hi Motley - I may be mistaken but I think that the Rio Grande Ski Train was hauled by F40PH's that were painted in the Rio Grande livery.
Hi Motley - I may be mistaken but I think that the Rio Grande Ski Train was hauled by F40PH's that were painted in the Rio Grande livery.
In later years, yes. But for a number of early years from around 1988 and into the 1990's, the former Tempo equipped Ski Train was pulled by SD50's, SD40T-2's and the D&RGW painted GP60's.
Chatanuga - Thanks for posting those photos. It's interesting to see the changes on the same units over the time. My thinking regarding the front "smile" chain would be to form it with a piece of either 28 or 26 gauge wire that has white insulation.
My thinking regarding the front "smile" chain would be to form it with a piece of either 28 or 26 gauge wire that has white insulation.
What about a fine chain?
Well, looks like I'm the odd-man in this group since I seem to be the only one that's modeling early-Amtrak's east coast trains (Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Champion,). . BTW: I saw unit #611 regularly in Phase III with a K5LA horn, assigned to the Star. Interestingly, my Athearn SDP40F #629 came equipped with a roof mounted "icicle cutter". It's a cool looking feature, but I'm going to (somehow) carefully remove the cutter and mail it to a modeler that requested it when I stated that I was modeling strictly east and southeastern trains and would not need it.
Interestingly, my Athearn SDP40F #629 came equipped with a roof mounted "icicle cutter". It's a cool looking feature, but I'm going to (somehow) carefully remove the cutter and mail it to a modeler that requested it when I stated that I was modeling strictly east and southeastern trains and would not need it.
Chatanuga - Thanks for posting those photos. It's interesting to see the changes on the same units over the time.
Well, looks like I'm the odd-man in this group since I seem to be the only one that's modeling early-Amtrak's east coast trains (Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Champion,). . BTW: I saw unit #611 regularly in Phase III with a K5LA horn, assigned to the Star.
I'm almost thinking that a thin wire with black insulation might work. I'm thinking cut it a little longer than needed, strip a little of the insulation off the ends, bend the wire to a curved shape, and bend the exposed wire on the ends into a hook to simply hook over the grab irons on either side of the door, allowing the "chain" to hang off the grab irons like the real thing. No need for gluing, drilling, etc.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
chatanugaOne detail I'm trying to figure out how to add to the locomotives is what looks like a covered safety chain across the nose in front of the door. I'm almost thinking a small black wire hooked over the grab irons or something.
Same here. Many photos of these engines leading the San Francisco Zephyr and those "smile" chains too.
AntonioFP45 Athearn did a nice job with their research!
Athearn did a nice job with their research!
Yes, that's one thing that has amazed me with these models. It seems like yesterday when I was a kid in the 80s, and manufacturers back then would just make a generic model of a locomotive and slap whatever paint schemes they wanted on it, typically with only one road number.
While there is always a place for kitbashing and scratchbuilding models to get what we want or need for our layouts, to be able to get accurate models with locomotive specific details is quite awesome.
Here's the model of #575 in Phase I paint.
And here is the real locomotive.
Apparently it was repainted prior to August 1977 in Phase II paint.
Here's the model of #523.
And here is #523 in it's original Phase I paint.
By August 1976, it was in Phase II paint.
Still active in 1981. The numberboards were white by that time like on the model. The horn seems to have been changed as well as the ACI tags on the sides removed.
And the model of #634.
And #634 in Phase I paint.
And repainted in Phase III. Looks like the horn may have been updated by the time it was in Phase III paint.
One detail I'm trying to figure out how to add to the locomotives is what looks like a covered safety chain across the nose in front of the door. I'm almost thinking a small black wire hooked over the grab irons or something.
FWIW info.
This might be of interest to some fellow modelers.
Not all, but a number of the SDP40F's that survived from 1978-82 were re-equipped with Nathan K5LA horns. So yes, it's prototypical to have a Phase III unit with the same horn sound as an Amtrak F40PH (although some F40's originally were equipped with Nathan P5a horns). I could not find a list so I'm using online photos (and my personal ones) as reference.
My Athearn SDP40F (629) is in the Phase 1 scheme, so I will leave its stock Leslie horn scheme intact, which does have a pleasant sound.
Athearn Genesis Phase 3 units #631 and #634 already have the correct K5LA horn mounted on the cab roof, and the sound scheme is available on the decoder. The other Phase III units offered (622,626) have the Nathan 4 chime, S4T horns mounted on the cab roof, as did the prototypes.
riogrande5761 I like the plexiglass along the outside edge. Keeps trains from taking the big dive.
I like the plexiglass along the outside edge. Keeps trains from taking the big dive.
Yeah, it's good stuff. I added the siding closest to the aisle to facilitate the relative lack of standard gauge track in my dual-gauge Durango. But it really was life on the edge. Not so much the dangers of the long plunge to the hard concrete, but the layout height makes it susceptible to "belly rub" derailments. It's unobtrusive and you mostly look right over or past it. It's about 1/4" thick by around 14' long total, with a glued splce at the 8' mark. The local plastic shop made it up for me for ~$100. Doesn't take too many $50 RTRs landing hard to make that cost seem very reasonable.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I like modeling the 70's when the SDP40F's pulled the San Francisco Zephyr. The passenger consists were interesting and the make-up was almost never the same, being drawn from a variety of former private RR cars Amtrak inherited.
I've managed to hunt down a variety of baggage, baggage-dorms, coaches, lounges, domes and sleepers built by ACF, Pullman Standard and Budd from Walthers and Broadway Limted.
The Rainbow period is also an interesting and fun time to model early Amtrak trains when many of the private passenger cars were still in original colors, such as GN, NP, BN, UP, CB&Q and Santa Fe. As the early 70's progressed, Amtrak phase 1 pointless arrow cars were being mixed in and by 1974, most, if not all cars in the consist were Amtrak painted. It's a really fascinating period to model from 1971-1980.
chatanugaAs I said just before the videos of the locomotives running, in my world, the SDP40Fs didn't have the derailment problems that the prototypes had. As a result they lasted into the early 1990s, working alongside the F40PHs.
If I modelled the 1990s I would also take this approach. I love the look of the SDP40 locomotives.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
riogrande5761D&RGW didn't run the SFZ, but I'm going to run it anyway, back story or no.
I take the Zephyr as flexible and expansive passenger train concept myself, so am prone to support such creative liberties. Our layouts are more prototype specifc all the times, but they also serve as somewhat traditional purpose in being generic frames to display equipment of all kinds, including that which never operated over the lines we depict.
One usually has to limit things to building and maintaining one layout, even when we are blessed with an interest in several and sundry locations and lines.
I operate a Houston-Portland Zephyr over my somewhat fictitious Four Corners Division. It offers the usual NG goodies familiar to most, plus provides a standard gauge line that starts with the branch to Moab, continues on to Dove Creek, CO and thense to Durango. From there, it follows a re-standard-gauged Farmington branch beyond there and down to Grants and thence east via trackage rights to Albuquerque...
I haven't figure out much beyond that and the endpoints. Equipment is drawn from the CZ pool, apparently expanded beyond CB&Q/DRGW/WP. The less thinking here, the better. It just looks good tooling through the vast vistas of the West.
chatanugaAs I said just before the videos of the locomotives running, in my world, the SDP40Fs didn't have the derailment problems that the prototypes had. As a result they lasted into the early 1990s, working alongside the F40PHs. As Bob Ross used to say, it's your world. Kevin
As I just said - we can run what we want. No need to justify.
D&RGW didn't run the SFZ, but I'm going to run it anyway, back story or no.
chatanuga As I said just before the videos of the locomotives running, in my world, the SDP40Fs didn't have the derailment problems that the prototypes had. As a result they lasted into the early 1990s, working alongside the F40PHs
As I said just before the videos of the locomotives running, in my world, the SDP40Fs didn't have the derailment problems that the prototypes had. As a result they lasted into the early 1990s, working alongside the F40PHs
I like this point of view, and may be adopting it.
Haven't watched the entire video, but your shots of the moving locos taken from a train running in front of it are brilliant.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
riogrande5761 Finally watched most of the video. Noticed the SDP40F's pulling MHC's, Material Handling Cars which is an anachronism. According to UtahRails.net, the SDP40F locomototives remained in service until mid April 1981. https://utahrails.net/pass/amtrak-hep-locos.php -- Material Handling Cars (in service: 1986-2003) https://utahrails.net/pass/amtrak-mail-express.php So it doesn't look like the SDP40F's were around long enough to pull MHC's, if that matters. But as always, we can run what we want.
Finally watched most of the video. Noticed the SDP40F's pulling MHC's, Material Handling Cars which is an anachronism.
According to UtahRails.net, the SDP40F locomototives remained in service until mid April 1981.
https://utahrails.net/pass/amtrak-hep-locos.php
-- Material Handling Cars (in service: 1986-2003)
https://utahrails.net/pass/amtrak-mail-express.php
So it doesn't look like the SDP40F's were around long enough to pull MHC's, if that matters. But as always, we can run what we want.
As I said just before the videos of the locomotives running, in my world, the SDP40Fs didn't have the derailment problems that the prototypes had. As a result they lasted into the early 1990s, working alongside the F40PHs.
As Bob Ross used to say, it's your world.
Ah, so a rental. If you expect to be there a while, maybe 2' high backdrops could work using hardboard.
I'll have to look into the usage of the repainted SDP40Fs for more info.
Found this discussion at TrainOrders.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4688185,4688185#msg-4688185
One inconsistency is #622 was list in a group said to be repainted in phase III between 1980 and 1981, but #622 was photographed in 1979 in phase III paint pulling the SFZ. There was a separate report of #622 working out of Oakland in phase III paint in 79 also.
riogrande5761 Edit: I see in the video, there were Phase II paint Genesis SDP40F's. BTW, the cinderblock walls don't make the nicest back drop for a layout. I know it's extra work, but installing stud-walls and drywall with a drop ceiling will make the layout room a much nicer environment. I delayed layout construction by a year in-order to finish my basement and it was really worth it. It took nearly a year because my wife and I did it on the weekends DIY, but a contractor could do it in a few weeks. Food for thought anyway.
Edit: I see in the video, there were Phase II paint Genesis SDP40F's.
BTW, the cinderblock walls don't make the nicest back drop for a layout. I know it's extra work, but installing stud-walls and drywall with a drop ceiling will make the layout room a much nicer environment. I delayed layout construction by a year in-order to finish my basement and it was really worth it. It took nearly a year because my wife and I did it on the weekends DIY, but a contractor could do it in a few weeks. Food for thought anyway.
EilifStill prefer Phase 1, but that's a great looking loco
Same here. For some reason the phase 1 is a real eye catcher. I've used a photo of one in the foot hills of the Sierra Nevada mountains as my desktop wall paper.
Phase 1 seemed to dominate the San Francisco Zephyr though heritage equipment years, upto mid-1980 when the Superliner EQ took over.
I'm modeling the D&RGW which the SFZ didn't use, except for a few rare occasions. However, the SFZ was a dog's breakfast of heritage passenger cars but it's been fun hunting down models to build it. Most are avaible in plastic since Walthers has run correct Santa Fe, UP and other trains, which Amtrak drew much of it's fleet from. The only difficult passenger car would be getting the SP 3/4 dome, only available in brass as far as I know.
The San Francisco Zephyr was routed over Donner Pass over the Sierra's and due to tunnel clearance concerns, SP reportedly restricted dome cars to only it's 3/4 dome and possibly a few others, but most were prohibited. Apparently in the late 80's, the tunnel clearances were increased to handle the upcoming Superliners so the SFZ was allowed to have standard domes during the late 70's.
Still prefer Phase 1, but that's a great looking loco. Skipped around and enjoyed some of the great footage on that video, but 37min is more than I'm willing to invest now.
They were mostly gone by the time I can remember traveling via Amtrak, but I still love the look of the SDP40F. Last year I was able to take a couple shots of the last of their less-attractive cousins, the F40C .
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/2019/06/chicago-trainspotting-metra-vintage.html