An earlier post re BLI motors got me pondering carbon brushes. As a child I recall my father having to replace carbon brushes very regularily on my locomotives and I remember having to do it on Rivarossi models (albeit it was super easy) in the '90s but what's the position these days? I've never given it a thought in the last 20 years but I am assuming it still has to be done?
Now on the likes of Kato and Athearn etc the motor is easy enough to access but on the steamers in particular the Intermountain AC-12 - which I understand is nigh on impossible to disassembe without breaking something - I forsee quite a lot of bad language!
Given that I never hear the matter discussed here is it the case that the more modern motors are kind of maintenance free and how long would it be reasonable to assume that, other than lubrication, the thing will last? I know that's not an easy one to estimate and it could be the case that they used to burn out 50 years ago because I was content to run every day for about 5 hours. I think. I don't get that much track time at all now and I have so many more locomotives to run.
As an aside I was heading off on holiday once about 15 years ago and the postman brought me a nice new Kato C44-9W in SF Warbonnet. I thought I have just about enough time to go to the garage and check if this thing's definately working OK. Long story short the usual rush. All checks done and we're off. Two weeks later and I'm putting the cases out into the garage and lo and behold there's the Kato still dutifully chugging along after 16 days or so. I can assume it's run in now! So before you all scold me I know I am not going to get a prize for safety here but I know that the brushes don't wear out that soon but what's the experience here with the newer stuff?
I have many NOS (new old stock) Kato from the late 90's and early 2000's and Athearn blue box locos from the mid 80's and I have never had to replace brushes.
Mike.
My You Tube
Out of maybe 250 locomotives (HO) that I presently have or once owned and since passed along to others, I can recall maybe six or seven that have given me any kind of brush/commutator trouble. Was the brush the culprit or the commutator? Hard to tell.
I have had a few "whiners" where there was a high-pitched squeal coming from the motor and reducing some of the brush spring pressure has helped that. Sometimes I reverse the brush in the holder 180° and let them run themselves in again. Sometimes this helps.
I had a raft of Bühler can motors from some Stewart/Bowser early F units that somehow developed commutator issues. Never found a cure for the problem. The commutator would spark badly and current draw would jump up while RPM would drop by 50%. No amount of cleaning or brush dressing or replacement would cure these motors so I just replaced them.
I've had a few Athearn Genesis motors go belly-up in a similar fashion. Completely melting the insulation off the commutators.
ATH_DC-motor by Edmund, on Flickr
And the inside of the housing with splatter and melted solder all over:
ATH_DC-motor4 by Edmund, on Flickr
The Genesis motor brushes are of a composite material. When clean they have a bronze/gold color to them:
ATH_DC-motor-brush by Edmund, on Flickr
Otherwise, it seems that when the brushes are run-in properly with good brush tension they seem to run forever, (or two weeks in your case ) other than those few I mention above, the majority have run flawlessly for years. Some of my engines are going on 30 years old.
Good Luck, Ed
Thanks for the resaponses and particularily gmpullman. That was a great effort.
I'm relieved by your responses.
All the old Tyco, and a few Rivarossi, and a Varney hereor there we had when I was a kid, mostly 60's/early 70's vintage - we never changed brushes in any of them.
I have a lashup of two P2K GP7s and an Atlas Trainmaster that have hours upon hours of continuous running at the club - no signs that any of them need brushes replaced.
The only brush 'replacement' I have ever done (on a model train) was an Atlas/Kato RSC/RSD that my ex father in alw had. It was brand new unopened, packed away for years before we had a layout, and when we tried to run it - no go. With a little coaxing, it would run, a bit ragged, and if you stopped it - had to bump the flywheel to get it to go again. After some examination, it appears that too much of the glue used to attach the commutator segments was used, insulating one and as the high friction point on the brush, it always stopped turning at that point when power was removed. I cleaned the commutator best as I could, and it then ran. So while the brushes were removed (had to take apart the whole motor, actually), they weren't technically replaced, they were brand new and the problem was elsewhere.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I’ve only replaced one brush in my 69 year HO career and that was in a Rivarossi Cab Forward. Got it at the local train show about 12 years ago. It had a sticky label on it that said “Dead, doesn’t run $25 as is”. When I pulled the shell there was a brush missing, a piece of .07” pencil lead filler and I had a running Rivarossi Cab Forward for $25.My first locomotive, MDC Roundhouse 0-6-0 that I bought new in 1951 has hundreds of hours of running time and original brushes.This is just out of the paint shop (fifth time since 1951) and still runs great after 69 years.The only problem I’ve had with my 0-6-0 is I dropped it and broke off a front step, MDC sent me a new replacement frame for 0 cost in the 90s, sorry to see them go, great outfit!!!Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
69 years? Thats amazing!
I now have three MDC Roundhouse 0-6-0s, all were kits. I bought my first one from H&H Hobbies in El Paso TX in 1951 for $6.85 with paper route money. It has the original Pitman open frame motor.I bought a second kit off eBay in 2013, an unopened box kit from 1952 according to the instructions. I assembled it also using the original Pitman motor.I bought a third unopened kit in 2015 again off ebay that had a newer frame and a factory can motor, the price had increased slightly over the years to $74.I installed a Digitrax SHD166 in a spare MDC Vandi tender and it works very good behind all three of the 0-6-0s.
My favorite of coarse is my first one, the 69 year old 0-6-0. I really miss MDC/Roundhouse, great outfit, great HO steam locomotives. I also have five MDC shays and two 2-8-0s well over 40 years old, all kit built with Pitman motors. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I can't comment on the specifics of this conversation, but I have to tell a funny story- back in '07 I was working convoy support as a civilian in southern Iraq. The company I worked for was a GC directly contracted to the US military that utilized 7 companies out of Kuwait. The predominant truck was the Mercedes Benz 2040 and the driver's lived in their trucks, which meant that due to the heat, the blower motor for the ac ran pretty much 24/7/365. Whenever I had a wrecked, BD, or just broke truck, I would strip its most valuable parts, batteries, headlights, blower motors, etc (to the detriment of the company that owned the truck).
Any how, I had a truck come in with a bad blower motor, and not having anything to patch him up, told him he had to suck it up. About this time a fellow from India (all the drivers were from around the world), came up and said he could repair it, I said "show me", at this time I watched him dissect a c cell battery, pull out the carbon center, cut off a short piece, and replace the worn out brush on the blower motor with this piece of carbon from the battery. Viola, worked like a charm. I will never forget that day, or the basic principle that I had forgotten from grade school.
Sorry, but I just had to tell that story.
Kev
Kev,
I can totally identify with that on 2 levels. I worked in the Middle East too for some years. It wasn't uncommon for people to leave their Land Cruisers on all night - and I mean the engine here - just so the car would be at that perfect tempreature when they stepped in after 10 hours or so and then make that 20min drive to work.
Similarily there as in India or whereverelse in the Far East you can get anything repaired. Anything. Those dudes are resourseful in a way folk were in the west 100 years ago or maybe 50.
FlyingScotamanSimilarily there as in India or whereverelse in the Far East you can get anything repaired. Anything.
I recall the time Anthony Bourdain (Parts Unknown) visited Hong Kong and pointed out an umbrella repair man. Umbrella repair!
Cheers, Ed