I'm not positive, Tom, as I was only a kid at the time, but I seem to recall wigwags on at least a couple of crossings, here in southern Ontario, on Central's CASO tracks.
The New York Central was also part-owner of my hometown TH&B, in Hamilton, Ontario, and there's a good chance that some of the many crossings there were wigwags, too.
Wayne
BATMANI have often thought of using Ngineering stainless tubing and an aquarium pump as a means of propulsion. An intermittent puff of air could get the thing rockin.
I never thought of that! A simple vane inside the box, and a pair of watch hole jewels for the bearings, and little what, 36-gauge leads to the LED in the swinger? Some pretty simple escapement theory would control your pump or valve, too... come to think of it, all you'd need would be some adjustment to vary the pulse timing of the pump as you watch the wig-wag, to get a good swing amplitude at resonant frequency, then a periodic adjustment if it changed time a bit...
Firing up the pump to control air admission is probably waaaaay too much overall latency with the long required piping length, so you might be looking at some sort of small proportional air valve near the base, and a metering nozzle (perhaps just flattening the tubing appropriately?) at the business end. You could probably run a bunch of these off a small air compressor and 'reservoir' tank... or run the aquarium pump continuously and just valve its airflow as desired.
That's not a bad idea, Dave, and might be worthwhile pursuing, although I'm not all that interested in such things for my railroad.
However, I have been following this thread, because back in the mid-'50s, my dad worked for a small company called Activated Advertising. They made moving ads for window displays and also as novelty items for the home.I remember a Christmas ornament that we had from them, which was made of white bead-type styrofoam. It had a square styrofoam base, with a styrofoam arch attached to it, and within the arch was a styrofoam bell, which, once set in-motion manually, would swing back and forth pretty-much until it was manually stopped. I recall it as being about a foot tall-or-so.
The activation was done by two magnets, one in the base, and one in the bell, with their poles aligned in opposition. I've been trying to visualise how this might be used to power a wigwag, and am wondering if the very small rare earth-type magnets available nowadays might work for such a device.Perhaps this mention of a long forgotten novelty might give some of our more creative Members the incentive to try both your suggestion and perhaps investigate this idea, too.
If you've ever stood at a RR crossing at night and noticed how the alternating red lights at the crossing signal seem to make what is lit up around you seem to "move" slightly because the angle of being lit differs slightly. I wonder if it would be possible (and technologically easier) to create a trompe l'oeil ("fool the eye") wigwag signal by having a mast with two wigwags one at each of the extremes of their back and forth movement, but have the lighting alternate between them. If done right perhaps the eye would "see" movement. And maybe the effect would be enhanced if the round discs of the two wigwags were transparent or translucent rather than solid, with only portions painted.
It might look strange when sitting still but mostly you'd only tend to notice it anyway when a train is crossing and it is lit up. What I have in mind is something akin to the sense of motion you get from one of those flip books for kids that as you flip the pages, seem to show motion.
Dave Nelson
Yeah, I'd expect a 2 steps per rotation motor would be fairly jerky. I wonder what they are out of - they look like some sort of disk drive stepper, or maybe CD player, but they have to be smoother than that for those functions. I wonder if they have a half step option of some sort, and just have a more complex drive need than indicated by the seller.
If an idea presents itself (I have no real use for a wig wag myself), maybe I'll order some and play around. I'm no stepper motor expert, but I think even the one that somes in many Arduino kits (I have one of those) aren't driven in the way it first appears you would wire it up.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
RandyWhen I gave up on the stepper motor I worked on a servo drive rod for awhile and it’s doable but tedious. I haven’t totally given up but it’s pretty far back on the burner at this time.Another thing about the stepper motor, the movement was too jerky. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I was thinking, I could get some of those motors and play around with them. But not sure what I would do with them, so I don't want to really spend the money. Wait - 10 motors for 70 cents?
Mel, if you have a sketch that makes them move back and forth, the issue is probably only with keeping track of the steps - that's the only way you will get them to stop in a specific position. The problem with those motors is being only 2 phase they can only stop in 180 degree incrememnts. Depending on the gearing, that may be almost no different, to be a step off, or it may be very noticable when the wig-wag is supposed to hand perfectly vertical when stopped. But say it's 6 steps from center to one end, you'd have to go 6, then -12, then another 6 and it should be back at the original start position. If not, it's missing a step, maybe because they are coming too fast for the motor to react.
I suspect you could do this with a servo, if you can get a linkage inside the pole.
I'm also thinking the best way to get it to stop vertical is to actually couple the mechanism loosely. Like the moving part ends in a C shape, with a vertical pin from the wig wag itself in the center of the C. Freely pivoting, with a decent amount of weight on the signal - maybe make that of metal. That way there is some leeway in just where the mechanism stops yet the wig wag will hang perfectly vertically.
I leave the construction of such a fiddly bit to someone who can see better than I can.
tstage I wish the NYC had used wigwags. Obviously they are better suited for warmer and drier climates where snow and freezing rain is less likely to occur. I just find them fascinating to watch, as well as unusual. I also have a soft spot for ball signals.
I wish the NYC had used wigwags. Obviously they are better suited for warmer and drier climates where snow and freezing rain is less likely to occur. I just find them fascinating to watch, as well as unusual. I also have a soft spot for ball signals.
i grew up in northeastern Wisconsin in a town with a lot of grade crossings ... every one protected by wigwags.
BATMAN There are a lot of very smart capable housebound modelers here on this forum, we should turn this working wig wag thread into a group developement project. Suggestions of gears, piano wire, cams and such will give people ideas. I have often thought of using Ngineering stainless tubing and an aquarium pump as a means of propulsion. An intermittent puff of air could get the thing rockin. Being the dummy in the crowd, I'll sit back and take notes.
There are a lot of very smart capable housebound modelers here on this forum, we should turn this working wig wag thread into a group developement project.
Suggestions of gears, piano wire, cams and such will give people ideas. I have often thought of using Ngineering stainless tubing and an aquarium pump as a means of propulsion. An intermittent puff of air could get the thing rockin.
Being the dummy in the crowd, I'll sit back and take notes.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I think Wayne has the right idea. LOL!
Many years ago a local modeler I know built the working wig wag from ALM. It was an extremely difficult build. He got it to work but not in a very smooth manner.
Today he doesn't operate it due to problems with the mechanism. I suspect if his experience with this kit was the norm, that might be why ALM no longer sells the operating kit version. I bought a couple of the non operating versions - they look great.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
sschnablWell, I didn't say they were cheap...
Wow, I guess not! And not even a picture, with it working?
Mike.
My You Tube
Well, I didn't say they were cheap...
I know it won't walk your dog, but it is operational and the target is lighted. I've seen one of them in their shop, and it looks great. But, yes, that is a lot for one crossing.
At $339...it better be operational with a lighted target...AND walk your dog.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Enginehouse Services, LLC in Green Bay makes one, but it looks like they are currently out of stock.
https://enginehouseservices.com/model-railroad/operating-banjo-wig-wag-grade-crossing-signal-kit-lighted-working-replica-of-the-model-5-auto-flag-wig-wag-l/
Scott
Actually, the YouTube link that Mel provided is a Showcase Miniatures wigwag that has been animated with a tiny motor. The view angle in the clip doesn't indicate if the target is wired for lighting. However, the oscillation of the wigwag (i.e. rate and dimunition) is pretty spot-on from the prototype footage that I've viewed on the internet.
Tom
Hi andrechapelon
Doesn't look like they do working ones but they do some interesting bits and pieces
Including a wig wag with open location case posibilities of an interesting scene there, if suitable figures and ute are avalable.
Then it doesn't need to work just have the right figures and posibley a working red LED ?
regards John
John Busby Hi all Does any one know of a manufacturer of HO scale working wig wag level crossing signals and the control circuit board to go with them. I am running an analogue DC layout So far all I have been able to find are kits for or ready made dummy wig wags and I really want working ones. regards John
Hi all
Does any one know of a manufacturer of HO scale working wig wag level crossing signals and the control circuit board to go with them.
I am running an analogue DC layout
So far all I have been able to find are kits for or ready made dummy wig wags
and I really want working ones.
Don't know if they make operating models, but Showcase Miniatures makes quite a few varieties.
https://www.showcaseminiatures.net/ho_scale/ho_scale_signals_wigwags_trackside_details/
richhotrain SeeYou190 For you guys that use operating signals... Do you have a means to turn them off, or do they work all the time? I use a pair of opti-sensors to turn the alternating red lamps on and off. No experience with hanging wig-wags. Rich
SeeYou190 For you guys that use operating signals... Do you have a means to turn them off, or do they work all the time?
For you guys that use operating signals... Do you have a means to turn them off, or do they work all the time?
I use a pair of opti-sensors to turn the alternating red lamps on and off.
No experience with hanging wig-wags.
Rich
Yes, opti-sensors are the best way to control crossing gates and crossing signals.
I plan to have a few sets on the new layout.
Working wigwag, sounds like a lot of fussy work, even more so than working gates.
From the quick research I did, I doubt very many were ever used here in the Mid Atlantic. Seems to have been more popular out west, and maybe in New England.
I've seen them in museums, never saw one in actual service.
Sheldon
Alton Junction
American Limited Models at one time sold an operating wig wag, https://www.walthers.com/operating-wigwag-crossing-signal-kit-without-detector,
now shown as out of stock. But you can probably find one either via Ebay or maybe through that HOSwap.io website.
There was also a thread on this circa, 2011, http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/189984.aspx which has some more information model and prototype.
I watched that one last night, Mel, along with some actual wigwag footage. The model is pretty spot-on with the oscillation speed.
And I just ran across this MR thread from 2014 by Ed (gmpullman), indicating that he briefly spotted a working wigwag (possibly located in central or western OH ) on an NYC video.
Sweet! - Thanks, Ed!
fmilhaupt tstage I wish the NYC had used wigwags. [snip] One of the last hanging wig-wag signals in Michigan, if not the last one along a working line in Michigan, was on a former NYC line in Lansing. The signal had been out of service for well over a decade the last time I saw it, though the line was still in use. This was a former Lake Shore & Michigan Southern line.
tstage I wish the NYC had used wigwags. [snip]
I wish the NYC had used wigwags. [snip]
How 'bout that! I would love to have a wigwag on my next NYC layout. I'll definitely look into it. Thanks, fmilhaupt!
I do believe Rich Eaton's working wig wags are no longer on the market (HO scale).
Don Fowler made and sold working wig wags in HO years ago.
Both might be found on the auction site.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
SeeYou190 For you guys that use operating signals... Do you have a means to turn them off, or do they work all the time? It seems to me in out model railroad world they would activate very often as we run our trains. -Kevin
For you guys that use operating signals... Do you have a means to turn them off, or do they work all the time? It seems to me in out model railroad world they would activate very often as we run our trains.
-Kevin