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Stand alone rail rolling stock on layout with power

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  • Member since
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Stand alone rail rolling stock on layout with power
Posted by roybrownson on Saturday, April 4, 2020 4:07 PM

My question is on my layout will any of my train cars like oil tank cars just sitting next to the oil loading station be damaged by the track power when running my locomotives on the layout? Like if the oil cars wheels are not metal. Thanks! Roy

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, April 4, 2020 4:25 PM

No, this should never be a problem.

Whether the wheels ar plastic or metal, they will be insulated, so even if voltage is present, no current will flow through the freight car, so nothing will happen.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by roybrownson on Sunday, April 5, 2020 12:33 AM

Thanks! 

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, April 5, 2020 12:40 AM

SeeYou190
No, this should never be a problem.

Ahem.  Never say never.  Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, April 5, 2020 12:44 AM

maxman
Ahem. Never say never. Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down.

I would think that to be an extremely rare situation. In that case it was an equipment failure, and the car probably would not have worked in a train on powered mainline trackage either.

I have a bigger fear of waking up and finding myself in Westeros, then being fed to a dragon, than my fear of a freight car melting on a powered siding.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 5, 2020 7:03 AM

maxman
 
SeeYou190
No, this should never be a problem. 

Ahem.  Never say never.  Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down. 

Say whaaaa???

Alton Junction

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:09 AM

richhotrain

 

 
maxman
 
SeeYou190
No, this should never be a problem. 

Ahem.  Never say never.  Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down. 

 

 

Say whaaaa???

 

 

 

WAIT!!!! I know EXACTLY what hapened!!!! This was on the Blue moon of the 5th Monday on the 32nd!!!!

You know, that day that the earth's rotation went backwards for like an hour....

Either that, or he entered a parrallel dimension for 5 minutes to manage that one.

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:19 AM

richhotrain

 

 
maxman
 
SeeYou190
No, this should never be a problem. 

Ahem.  Never say never.  Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down. 

 

 

Say whaaaa???

 

 

Maxman´s sense of humor does not appeal to everyone. He didn´t tell you his friend fed 25kV into the track.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:21 AM

Tinplate Toddler

Maxman´s sense of humor does not appeal to everyone. He didn´t tell you his friend fed 25kV into the track. 

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Alton Junction

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:25 AM

Tinplate Toddler

 

 
richhotrain

 

 
maxman
 
SeeYou190
No, this should never be a problem. 

Ahem.  Never say never.  Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down. 

 

 

Say whaaaa???

 

 

 

 

Maxman´s sense of humor does not appeal to everyone. He didn´t tell you his friend fed 25kV into the track.

 

LaughLaugh

You Win! (Good thing I'm not a comedian by profession!)

LaughLaugh

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:28 AM

I could see metal trucks with metal wheels installed wrong causing a short.  But i dont see how it could melt plastic.  Anybody have an idea?  
Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:32 AM

NVSRR

I could see metal trucks with metal wheels installed wrong causing a short.  But i dont see how it could melt plastic.  Anybody have an idea?  

Perhaps maxman's friend filled those Atlas tank cars with acetone. Smile, Wink & Grin

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, April 5, 2020 8:43 AM

A system like a power cab resets itself.  The power goes off then it comes back on, and off and on.  The trucks would get hotter and hotter if the wheels and the trucks were metal and installed backwards.   The same thing has happened to people who have had a derailment, while their trains were running unattended.

However we just had a thread on metal wheels and trucks.  The problem is immediately obvious and caused by the owner monkeying with the wheels.  The wheels never flip themselves around while sitting in the yard.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, April 5, 2020 9:03 AM

We are talking about 12V, are we not? We are also taking about a tank car which is made of plastic, thus insulating, are we not? Normally, power packs have a built in overload protection circuit which will cut the power in case of a short and will not restore power until the short is resolved.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by csxns on Sunday, April 5, 2020 9:27 AM

The last flat cars with pipe loads MTH came out with the wheels will short out the LHS only found two that was ok.

Russell

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, April 5, 2020 9:36 AM

No, I was not trying to be humorous, and there was no acetone in the car.  There may have been too much beer involved.

He was installing resistors on the wheelsets and did a poor job of testing on (at least) one of them.  The resistors bridge the insulation on the insulated wheel.

This resulted in a low level current draw that was not enough to trip the DCC system, but did allow everything to get hot enough over time to melt things.

Yes, when he smelled smoke and finally saw what was happening, there was stuff in his shorts that needed resolution.

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, April 5, 2020 9:50 AM

maxman

No, I was not trying to be humorous, and there was no acetone in the car.  There may have been too much beer involved.

He was installing resistors on the wheelsets and did a poor job of testing on (at least) one of them.  The resistors bridge the insulation on the insulated wheel.

This resulted in a low level current draw that was not enough to trip the DCC system, but did allow everything to get hot enough over time to melt things.

Yes, when he smelled smoke and finally saw what was happening, there was stuff in his shorts that needed resolution.

 

Thanks, Maxman - that´s indeed possible.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by John-NYBW on Sunday, April 5, 2020 10:08 AM

richhotrain

 

 
maxman
 
SeeYou190
No, this should never be a problem. 

Ahem.  Never say never.  Friend of mine managed to break down the insulation on one of his Atlas tank cars and it melted down. 

 

 

Say whaaaa???

 

 

I never figure out why this happened but it might have been improper wiring of a turnout with a powered frog but I had a problem location where the trucks melted on a piece of equipment. One was the observation car of my Walthers 20th Century Limited set and the other was the front truck of a BLI F-unit. I'm not positive but it might have been due to the trucks bridging the gap between a DCC zone and a reversing section with an auto reverser.  It happened at about the same location. I never did figure it out but I have since replaced the turnouts with insulated frog Atlas turnouts and the problem has not recurred. Knock wood.  

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Posted by dknelson on Sunday, April 5, 2020 11:18 AM

I think the OP can rest easy unless there are special circumstances (such as signal detection type resistors added which are I suppose perpetually trying to, well, resist if there is track power).

But I do recall my best friend's old layout (so, 12 volt DC, HO) where on a little used spur he had placed a nice model of a "speeder" - an all metal kit, perhaps Durango Press's Fairmont? -- with a couple of "track workers" nearby as a little scene, but he had painted all the speeder wheels includng the treads and tiny flanges so it did not create a short.  It was more or less part of the scenery and we took it for granted.

Then one night we could not get his layout to run.  The circuit breaker kept tripping.  He was crawling under the layout looking for a loose wire, pulling all the locomotives off, then we started removing all the rolling stock.  We "bent the iron" on all his turnouts.  Nothing worked.  I picked up the little speeder model - problem solved.  The paint was of course an insulator and thus a resistor of sorts and over the years I can only assume the current was trying to flow and what?  Melted some paint?  Burnt it away?  Could it be that a prior short circuit had attacked the insulating paint in some way?  

It's been nearly 40 years since that incident but we still remember it and laugh about it. 

Dave Nelson

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Sunday, April 5, 2020 12:20 PM

maxman

No, I was not trying to be humorous, and there was no acetone in the car.  There may have been too much beer involved.

He was installing resistors on the wheelsets and did a poor job of testing on (at least) one of them.  The resistors bridge the insulation on the insulated wheel.

This resulted in a low level current draw that was not enough to trip the DCC system, but did allow everything to get hot enough over time to melt things.

Yes, when he smelled smoke and finally saw what was happening, there was stuff in his shorts that needed resolution.

 

 

This is why "Bud" never should help with electrical work....

Ricky W.

HO scale Proto-freelancer.

My Railroad rules:

1: It's my railroad, my rules.

2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.

3: Any objections, consult above rules.

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, April 6, 2020 9:52 AM

The resistor must have been the wrong one also to get enough power. It was close to reset breaker point of break but not there, if that makes any sense by the way I am describing it.

 

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Posted by maxman on Monday, April 6, 2020 12:23 PM

rrebell

The resistor must have been the wrong one also to get enough power. It was close to reset breaker point of break but not there, if that makes any sense by the way I am describing it.

No, it was the right one.  Problem had somethiing to do with the attachment goop product creating a path around the resistor.

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