SURE,
I' m in the way to open a debate which is a never ending story about the best way to clean track.
This reflection is based on some scientific and industrial after facts and also my own background professional work in the metallic construction.
I share part of this reflection from an another forum, because I feel it important.
I must also mention I use "No OX" as a final treatment for my track, but in any case I wouldn't hit no one which has another approach which seems work reliabily for him.
Again a debate about pro and cons my method are not the finality of this thread, I just ask to share a 30 years observation and conclusion based on some real after facts.
I never use any abrasive device to clean my track, this was first a dad advice, but time has show me it's really better to no do it.
I have an excellent excellent example why using abrasive treatment to clean track is not a good way to go.
I have already say I'm an iron worker, I have had my own little company in Belgium about ironworks and now I have a job of analyst of industrial quality soldering job here in Canada for agreement.
Here come my example about the consequences of abrasive job;
When we work with inoxydable, you have three way to weld it, using the simple arc method or the Tig or Mig procedure which include gaz atmosphere to protect the welding job.( robot use gaz atmosphere all the time)
The arc method is the simplest use but this one has a lot of consequences about oxidized inoxydable which really rust after a while because of inclusion of oxygen and carbon in the metal assembly.
Many welding job need a grinder job after to minimalise the solder point.
With inoxydable for a professional finish you must use special grinder disk and avoid to use them for any other job than inoxydable.
Why, when you grid inoxydable, you include carbon particules in the scratch, dirt from the disk grinder; this carbon is included in the welding spot when you weld the inoxydable because heat allow it to go out of the metallic atomic structure.
So when you grid a weld spot, you include more carbon to the surface, this carbon allow rusting effect on inoxydable which is the same as iron; to avoid this, the inox need to receive after the welding and grinding job a acid treatment to avoid any carbon and dirt particles residues to be on the surface, surface need to be polished.
We can't use any acid to have a clean job to destroy any microscopic inclusion which are in the scratch.
I tell you this example because when you use abrasive on nickel silver, you include in the scratch like on my inox example, numerous different kind of dirt in the scratch which are in our rail case microscopic but they exist; in fact you include more dirt in the metallic assembly in a form of way, this allow also the famous gump to have a real fixing point
Even if you use often the bright boy or similar abrasive device, you don't bring a solution to the cleaning of the track, you just displace the problem in time, meaning in a few months you must come back with the abrasive job.
This is why I never had used any abrasive form of work to clean up my track, but only the use of non abrasive device, wiping, polishing and some chemicals or solvent cleaner to help.
Sure when you have used the bright boy the train run better, not because of the bright boy use, just because the head of the rails are clean; you have just push away the surface dirt and push away the oxidized.
Sorry but the track is not clean, you have included in the job, numerous particules which are for the most bad for electrical contact and second which can for the most regenerate the dirt and oxidized action relatively quickly.
It's also very important to vacuum the track just after a scratching job, but in the time, the gump on the track is mixed with the bright boy or alike dust and go in the famous microscopic scratch on the rails, one day or another you will need to polish the head of the rails.
But even you do it in rules, after a while these scratchs are full of dirt; I don't remember the forum but a guy's has done the experiment with a piece of track and shared big microscopic pictures where you can see how much dirt was inserted in these scratch after an abrasive cleaning job; it was amazing !
This, at a time produce micro electrical arc between wheels and track, this is confirmed by numerous analysis on forum, even on non train forum about Nickel Silver use for electrical device.
So just a simple question, how many time you could wait before the need to come back with an abrasive to clean your track ?
Anyway, if we can clean track we can't stop the oxidized process, here comes all the treatment we speak about it from years, with good, medium or bad results; each of us prefer this way or this way.
To my point of view only graphite and "No OX" are guarantee procedure, because these have a industrial and scientific background use as a appreciation.
And about wiping solvent or any other product to clean the track, you must dry clean the track before running a train on it; I use "No OX" and I let it dry one or two day before running any trains
With my never abrasive treatment and " No OX" treatment I go over 18 months, last time this was in 2017 and until my move and the packaging of my layout in august 2019, my layout was running great, I have made none treatment to any piece of track during this period and this is in N scale.
When you use a "polishing" work on a surface you use some product which contain a kind of "sand" with an incredible fine granulometry, which has a very light and subtle action on the surface; this is the reason why sometimes polishing a surface take time .
But polishing don't include scratch in the work, which are bad for our rail heads.
Using only tissues wet with some cleaner is far enough to clean or track heads and if your rails heads are heavily oxidized you can come with some polishing agent but don't use a real abrasive like paper grit or bright boy, these device go to far in the scratching way and really damage the head of the rails for numerous reasons discussed here before.
Just a few of industrial switching track have received the graphite treatment, it works great too, but slippage on a grade designed layout can be a issue with graphite.
This is my observation since around 30 years of "No OX" use and also a professional background about metallic use and analysis.
No OX, is a professional stuff so we can expect good result.
Art Fahie, of Blair Line introduced it a long time ago for his N scale layout.
How I use it
The trick is to wipe it very slightly on the head of the rail; a tissue impregnate of "No OX" and wiped on the head of the rail is far enough, minimum is the best for our train use; let dry "No OX3 one or two day and run again your train…..I will run like a charm !
I know everybody has his own way to clean track, and each of us prefer to use this method or this method.
I use "No OX" from a long time ago now, after the use of the "classic" way of clean track, and following my own experience "No OX" seems to be the most durable trick I have used.
Knowing I will have for sure pro and con's of No OX or about my following method, I just would say It works for my N scale use, and it's durable, since it go largely over one year without any need of cleaning track and sincerely, I not believe I will need to do it soon; the only reason could be the layout is not in use from a while because of my move from Europe to Quebec.
Here are some of my reflections after maintenance during a 45 years period and the way I go, with excellent result in a scale which is very sensitive about electrical continuity,
Dad was my teacher for many things about my train knowledge and because he was a civilian engineer, he had a special technical approach about train.
45 years ago good electrical contact was obtained by clean surface and by the polished way to obtain clean surface; this way was for him in scale with the little train, specially N scale where he introduced me at the very beginning existence of the scale.
Here is another reflection, about the fact everything has a scale, so all the things we do need to have a scale to respect to the end the scale we use; this is a very important concept which is not often applied; cleaning track is one of the victims.
Like HO or N scale, even O scale, abrase a rail is really over scale, it's important to remember the fact everything has a scale, so an abrasive job is for sure out of scale, a polishing job is more to the scale; a very very little amount of cleaner agent or in my cas "No OX" is more to the "scale" of our trains.
We have tomorrow excellent products which can act as real anti oxidized process.
I prefer to follow the way of polish in place of mechanicals approach, because there are some after fact of the mechanicals approach which can be problematic in the future ; scratching the files of the track is one.
Don't use heavy solvent like acetone, and similar one, they are not safe for the plastic parts of the track and really not necessary to clean track; white spirit or alcool do the job as fine.
I used first white spirits with excellent results, but time evolding I have try to find more specified products.
I have had excellent result by using WD40 as a cleaning agent, It's important to know there are many different kind of WD40, one is really a special contact cleaner.
Even with the use of "No OX", a day comes when the track need to be clean up unfortunately, but you can avoid this a long time if you clean regularly wheels of locomotives and cars and about cars use only metallic wheels; plastic ones are a factor to bring gump on the track
Cleaning track is for me a step by step job; first you need to vacuum the track; for difficult reaching part like some tunnel, a rolling vacuum car is an excellent tool, mine is a Model Lux vacuum car extremely powerful and DCC ready; I run it often in freight main train.
Cleaning the rail head of the track remain a big job.
I divide the job by a running process, by using a running train and by hand using a stick with different pads similar of the one offered by WS
I have done a real cleaning train for my N scale layout, I ended by his consist just by reading thread about cleaning track; he is heavy, but I use severals powered units to run it.
The drying cars which have tissue pads are two old big DB diesel frame, which I have modified to support the drying support tissue pad.
I use this train to clean my mainline, siding, branch line and yard; for the industrial spurs and small track I use hand pad with a stick ; I used only white spirit and now the WD40 to clean my track.
My cleaning train has a real consist of working cars and locomotives ; this include CMX cars,homemade drying pads car made from old locomotives frames, locomotive power with old Kato F7 ABA set and two Model Lux polishing car
The consist is front a CMX car full of WD40 contact cleaner, following by a homemade drying car with a sliding tissue pad from a running DB locomotive frame, followed by a second CMX car full of WD40, a second DB locomotive frame drying pad, a Model lux polishing car, a old set of ABA Kato F7 locomotives, again a CMX car, a simple pad drying car and a Model Lux polishing car to finish the train.
I regulate the fluid flow of the CMX to the minimum possible, it's not necessary to put a lot of fluid.
I allow this train to run all along the main two or three time back and forth, the drying pads are regularly changed like the pads of the CMX car.
This is a one day job, including all the manual cleaning of local track.
When my track is clean and shiny again, "No OX" is put again along the track, I use the same old tissues from years to do the job and wipe a very very small amount of "No OX" on the rail heads, this tissue is become himself like "No OX"; the stick pads are used to put "No OX" on bridges and small track; I don't try to put it in tunnel the cars and locomotives by running put some "No OX" on these track., let it dry a few days before running trains.
I'm so happy with "No OX" I lightly wipe it on track which is just lay; I don't wait to have oxidized track, when my track is ballasted and painted, I clean the top of the rails as usual and I put very lightly "No OX" as a preventive action; this don't allow the top of the track to be oxidize quickly.
I can confirm, this job is done around every 18 months, may be more, but I must admit I also run often my train which include severals cars with sliding pads à la John Allen.
The layout, when not in use is covered to protect him from dust; no dust production is allowed in the layout room; I firmly believe this also help to keep clean track longer.
My point turnout are all electrical live one, I use Fastrack turnouts, live point and frog are for me a necessity in N scale, the Peco code 55 for the old parts of the layout has been modified to have alive point and frog.
I have also used some times ago the graphite trick on some lone track with good results, I don't ask to use it on main because of the grade problems and slipping possible issue, but it's work well for sure.
And after all the thread about the subject the answer are always the same with the users of "No OX"; this is easily testable in all the thread speaking about "No OX"
- Better electricity continuity on the layout directly visible after the treatment.
- Nearly no more stalling locomotives even in the less used track
- Durability, always more than any other trick
- Recommended since Linn Westcott in the 50's as the one of the best treatment.
- Industrial guarantee recognized by professional of the electricity use
On the run whith my Maclau River RR in Nscale
Marc - I don´t want to dampen your enthusiasm, but this topic has been discussed at length not only once, but so many times, that I have lost track. One thing I was able to gain from these many contributions was, that each and every one has his own preferred method he is happy with. In my case that´s a process of "gleaming", described a number of times in this forum, which is very similar to your process.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Whoa. I had to keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling to get to the end of the original post. I don't have time read read all of that or the desire. Maybe if I'm having insomnia, I'll see how far I get.
If you can do a "cliff notes" version ...
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
My preferred method for track cleaning is using 91% Alcohol on a shotgun cleaning pad and a bright boy as needed for cleaning track.. Some times I just used my bright boy to clean track like I did for decades before I started using 91% alcohol.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I'm also a "gleam" fan. Described a way down this thread, by our friend Jeffrey:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/212742.aspx
I also run a CMX car, using denatured alcohol, infrequently as a touchup. Works fine for me on code 83 nickle silver track, incombination with metal wheelsets on nearly all my rolling stock.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
peahrensI'm also a "gleam" fan.
I was gleaming before I knew it had a name.
I started doing this when a friend showed me a piece of plexiglass he was using for a see-through water base. He samded the edge of it so smooth, it was see through just like a piece of glass.
I figured if you could get plexiglass that smooth, you could do it to rail heads.
The only thing I use to clean my track is a worn-out silver coin.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I don't have a pile of anecdotal or empirical evidence to justify what my personal orientation to this topic is these days. However, I tend to be a 'hybridizer' who cherry picks what seems reasonable to do from a thinking standpoint, and what I can actually tolerate and still get some jollies from an operating session.
I wipe with alcohol, and then I run a large 2" steel washer back and forth. As so many of us have concluded, running metal tires covers a lot of ground as well. So far, the past two years, this treatment has worked really well. The only other thing I'm prepared to try...soon...is to use a Walthers track-cleaning car (new process and item for me), but I'm going to apply kerosene to the pad. I want it's cleaning properties to see what happens to the pad, and to see if kerosene will affect the pad adversely. But the latest evidence is that both kerosene and WD-40's Contact Cleaner are at the top of the recommended list of non-polar track cleaning fluids.
I'm feeling optimistic.
BRAKIE My preferred method for track cleaning is using 91%
My preferred method for track cleaning is using 91%
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain BRAKIE My preferred method for track cleaning is using 91% Denatured alcohol works great. Rich
Denatured alcohol works great.
Rich, That's what I use.. Why I wrote 91% alcohol instead I have no idea-- wait! A senior mind slip perhaps?
BRAKIE richhotrain BRAKIE My preferred method for track cleaning is using 91% Denatured alcohol works great. Rich Rich, That's what I use.. Why I wrote 91% alcohol instead I have no idea-- wait! A senior mind slip perhaps?
I understand the science behind "gleaming" (a new term for me) or cleaning with some type of solution, but once you have already used a Bright Boy or some similar abrasive methid, isn't the damage already done to the rail heads? So, after the first time, aren't you stuck with having to always abrade?
Llenroc fan I understand the science behind "gleaming" (a new term for me) or cleaning with some type of solution, but once you have already used a Bright Boy or some similar abrasive methid, isn't the damage already done to the rail heads? So, after the first time, aren't you stuck with having to always abrade?
In my experience, if the rail appears to be clean, use denatured alcohol on a piece of white cloth. If the rail has obvious dirt, gunk, dried glue, whatever, on it, then a Bright Boy is safe to use to get that obvious stuff off the rail without actually abrading it. Once the obvious stuff is removed from the rail, then use denatured alcohol on a white cloth to finish the job.
Well there are abrasives and then there are abrasives. The classic Bright Boy (which I have always assumed is the "same stuff" as the old fashioned "typewriter eraser" - remember the gray disc with a stiff little brush attached? -- or what was called an "ink eraser" both of which simply wore away the paper with the mistake on it) has grit suspended in the rubbery base. Maybe the same grit as emery cloth for all I know. The grit is harder than the metal of the rail which is why it leaves the small scraches.
But the also classic John Allen "masonite on the two nails under the boxcar" track cleaner is also an abrasive in the sense that it rubs the dirt away rather than dissolves it. But it isn't harder than the rail. It's just harder than the dirt.
When I paint the sides of rail, I first run a Qtip lightly oiled over the top of the rail so the paint does not adhere there. Then after painting I run a 1/4" piece of balsa wood over the rail to clean up any paint that is there, plus wipe away remaining oil. It is "abrasive" but does nothing meaningful to the rail in the way of scratches.
The OP has certainly given us a great deal of information and frankly I have yet to make my way through all of it. But the term "abrasive" covers so many things that it is not easy to know what to avoid and what is OK.
Dave Nelson
A colleague at the club actually cleans track through various phases. Some sidings at the club get a lot less traffic (and attention from the guys cleaning the track) and can become fairly oxydized. In these situations, the colleague will start with the bright boy, and then gradually finish the job with a finer polishing material (fingernail polisher). After these 2 or 3 phases, he will wipe everything clean with alcohol. My personal conclusion: I think you can gleam after using the bright boy to remove the scratches.
Simon
PS: WD40 and petroleum products can be harmful to your health. These warning signs on the bottles should be taken seriously.
Not hip to the science but read about polar vs non-polar solvents for track cleaning. Appears that non-polar solvents inhibit the mirco-arcing that creates metal oxides (black stuff?).
A list of non-polar solvents included various contact cleaners, kerosene, mineral spirits, turpentine, Wahl Clipper oil and WD-40. No-Ox was not mentioned, but a microscopic thin layer of graphite is on the list.
Interestingly a thick layer of graphite, IPA, MEK, acetone and lacquer thinner were listed as polar solvents and as such less desirable for track cleaning.
Haven't run trains much since changing over to a non-polar contact cleaner so cannot attest to it's track cleaning effectiveness over my old stand-by lacquer thinner. The contact cleaner costs more and evaporates quicker, but I do like that it seems much less harmful than lacquer thinner to painted rails and ties.
Regards, Peter
oops! Double.
Only if you use a microscope zoom to several thousandths-IIRC 20,000 then you might see little scratches on the rail.
I been using a bright boy for decades and at scale switching speeds there's never been a problem.
BRAKIE Only if you use a microscope zoom to several thousandths-IIRC 20,000 then you might see little scratches on the rail. I been using a bright boy for decades and at scale switching speeds there's never been a problem.
If you have surface gunk that requires some serious work to liberate it, try the end of a wooden dowel, or how about a Scotch Brite. Neither will mar the surface of your nice shiny rails, and they'll do a pretty decent job, between them and maybe a swipe beforehand with a solvent to soften it.
selector If you have surface gunk that requires some serious work to liberate it, try the end of a wooden dowel, or how about a Scotch Brite. Neither will mar the surface of your nice shiny rails, and they'll do a pretty decent job, between them and maybe a swipe beforehand with a solvent to soften it.
Actually on my ISLs I avoid bright shiny rails.. I perfer dull rail that looks like it sees daily use use by one train. A few weeds between the ties and its good to go.
I fully agree a busy main line should have shiny rails.
As far as a Bright Boy I been using one since the early 60s and my bright boy still gets the job done. I see no reason to change to anything less.
I used the Bright Boy for years before I learned that it will scratch the track so the damge has already been done. I rarely run my trains in the warm weather months, though that is likely to change this year because of the pandemic. Once golf season ends I get back into trains and by that time a good deal of tarnish has built up on the rails. The Bright Boy is the quickest way to clean it off. Recently I learned about CRC contact cleaner and have used that in spots that are heavily tarnished and that has brought good results. I am in the process of laying the track for a new branch line and maybe I'll heed the advice not to use abrasive cleaners on that just to see the difference it makes, but for the track that has been down for almost two decades, what ever damage can be done has already been done.
Likewise for me with 91% alcohol after using a Bright Boy. The alcohol is very easy, cheap, and readily available (e.g., WMT, TGT, drug stores, etc.). Instead of cleaning pads, I use industrial paper towels. They don't leave fibers you get with the kitchen variety.
For those who use Bright Boys, does it not depend on how much pressure you put on the tracks and frequency of use to measure its effectiveness? Just wondering.
kasskaboose For those who use Bright Boys, does it not depend on how much pressure you put on the tracks and frequency of use to measure its effectiveness? Just wondering.
My primary source of rail cleaning is 70% isopropyl alcohol. But, I turn to the Bright Boy for obviously dirty spots on the rails. If you can see a dirty spot, it needs to be removed with something like a Bright Boy.
In my experience, when rails are "dirty", you really don't see the problem unless you run your finger over it only to see a black streak. In that case, use alcohol on a rag, not a Bright Boy.
By the way, I would never ever use sand paper, no matter how fine. There is no need for such an extreme measure.
I've been at this a while now, and ever since nickle silver track, I have not really had to clean track all that often?
When I do, I use several methods.
But I have never messed with clipper oil, or gleeming or any such stuff.
Sheldon
Only one question remains about the bright boy users.
Even if your layout is running often; how many times you can wait before to redo a bright boy or assimilate job before to have dirty track again; I mean by dirty track, track where locomotives are stalling or don't start because of poor electrical continuity and specially on industrial local lone track.
This is the real question in fact, how often you need to clean track for a decent running layout ?
The way I use is around 18 months for N scale, and more in reality.
Since my layout has didn't run from the late 8 months and probably didn't run before a while, this will be a good example how my treatment evolve in time even when no running trains on the track.
I almost never have to clean my track, and the layout is in an unfinished basement, although it is heated, cooled, and humidity controlled.
Marc_MagnusThis is the real question in fact, how often you need to clean track for a decent running layout ?
I clean track on my switching layouts as needed maybe two to three times a year. As long as I maintain slow switching speeds I don't bother cleaning track. I clean locomotive wheels as needed and with nickel silver wheels that may be months or years.
I never been obsessed with keeping my track clean.. Even my old brass track and brass locomotive wheels (remember those?) didn't require cleaning every time I operated..
I finally had to clean track for the first time in the 5 years this layout has been up this year. All nickle silver track, though not all new. Some has been in my possession for 20+ years. I use a bright boy for most cleaning sessions.
Mike
peahrens I'm also a "gleam" fan. Described a way down this thread, by our friend Jeffrey: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/212742.aspx
Me too, and I've used Jeffrey's method since reading about it. However I have updated the method a bit. Jeffrey recommended "400 grit, then 600 (or finer)". Although I think the 600 was a bit coarse as finer grits were harder to find back then.
Eventually I found the Hobby Lobby "Ultra Fine Waterproof Finishing Kit" with one 3.5" x 8" sheet each of grits 320, 400, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000, 6000, & 12000. The pack is a bit $$ at $10, so use the coupon. I've been using the 1000 grit with good results, a small piece goes a long way.
Since, I've seen full sheet packs of the fine grades at the big box home centers at a better price.
The finer grit greatly reduces the "elbow grease time" with the washer!
Jim
hardcoalcaseI found the Hobby Lobby "Ultra Fine Waterproof Finishing Kit" with one 3.5" x 8" sheet each of grits 320, 400, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000, 6000, & 12000. The pack is a bit $$ at $10,
Auto stores, like Autozone, Track Auto and the like have girts >1000 with their paints.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley