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Does anyone know anything about this brass trolley?

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Posted by Wolf359 on Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:06 PM

Tinplate Toddler

 

 
Wolf359
By the way, what exactly is a SPUD drive? I'm unfamiliar with how they work.

 

A motorized truck of various lenghts and different wheel diameters, made by Tenshodo/Japan.

 

Interesting. Thank you.

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, April 26, 2020 1:02 PM

Wolf359
By the way, what exactly is a SPUD drive? I'm unfamiliar with how they work.

A motorized truck of various lenghts and different wheel diameters, made by Tenshodo/Japan.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by Wolf359 on Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:32 PM

If you can't get it to run well and have fun with it, there isn't much point in having it. That's why I just put a can motor in a Mantua ten wheeler I have. I think you made the right choice in going for the modern drive. By the way, what exactly is a SPUD drive? I'm unfamiliar with how they work. It sounds like it runs on a potato!Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, April 26, 2020 3:18 AM

BN7150
I think Tenshodo's SPUD is a good choice for smooth running.

Hi BN7150,

I decided to leave the Tenshodo drives in their boxes and spring for an up to date Stanton instead.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, April 26, 2020 3:13 AM

Southgate
I purely applaud your efforts to make her run and look like it deserves to. Dan

Thanks Dan!

I have to say that I felt much better after I placed the order for the Stanton drive. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to get the trolley to run properly using the original rather worn and crude pieces, with the result that it would end up back in its box just as Ulrich said.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Southgate on Sunday, April 26, 2020 2:56 AM

I'm a "purist". I'm purely about models that run well first before anything. Echoing Tinplate Toddlers comment, I have some great looking locos rotting away in boxes cuz they don't run smooth enough for me. Some are gonna get weathered and put on the "dead line".

I purely applaud your efforts to make her run and look like it deserves to. Dan

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, April 26, 2020 12:21 AM

A wise decision, Dave! A nice model that doesn´t run spends its life in a box, one that runs nicely on the track!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:38 PM

I just chickened out! I have been contemplating rebuilding the trolley using its original drive system but after studying the parts I was concerned that it would be hard to make it a reliable runner. The drive system seems to be a bit crude, and the original motor takes up almost 1/3rd of the interior space. That makes a detailed interior hard to do.

So, I have just ordered a North West Short Line Stanton drive that matches the wheelbase perfectly and will leave the interior almost completely empty. The Stanton drive will fit inside the existing frame. It will also make the conversion to DCC easy should I ever want to go that route. I will keep the original drive parts so that the trolley can be returned to its 'as built' condition. I have a Stanton drive in my McKeen Motor Car and it works beautifully.

The purists may cry foul. I have lots of Kleenex!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Cheers,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 25, 2020 3:48 PM

Tinplate Toddler
Dave, look for the "Trams & Tramway Modelling" section of the British rmweb.

Ulrich is my hero!!! BowBowThumbs UpYeah

I joined a Facebook group called 'Tram Modeling' and posted my little story. In less than 10 minutes a gentleman in England (I believe) sent me pictures of a working model of exactly the same tram! (The wonders of the Internet!!).

The pictures show that I do indeed have the motor/wheel wiper mounting frames but mine were so badly bent out of shape that I couldn't figure out how they would fit in. Also, he informed me that the wooden roof is original so I will keep it.

Turns out the needle in the haystack was easy to find thanks to Ulrich's suggestion.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Southgate on Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:24 PM

I'm not a trolley modeller, doesn't fit my locale. But I sure can see the attraction. What a cool little model. You will of course, keep us posted on building progress?Also on the tyco diner...Dinner Dan

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Posted by wvg_ca on Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:52 AM

Glad that you got the trolley  .. it will keep you busy for quite a while ....

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 25, 2020 2:42 AM

Tinplate Toddler
Dave, look for the "Trams & Tramway Modelling" section of the British rmweb.

Thanks Ulrich,

I have asked to join a Facebook group that focuses on Trams. Hopefully I will find some information there, although I'm getting the impression that getting detailed information on the drive train mechanisms is rather like searching for a needle in a haystack. (I never liked that image! I always imagined myself getting poked by the needle!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh).

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Saturday, April 25, 2020 2:24 AM

Dave, look for the "Trams & Tramway Modelling" section of the British rmweb.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:55 AM

John Busby
I would sugest using model Trams or simillar as a search term as well as many country's call them trams.

Thanks John,

Good suggestion!

Dave

Update:

I spent about 20 minutes searching using the word 'tram' and I did find some information about using Tenshodo Spud drives for power. I have several Spud drives on hand, but I think I'm going to see what I can do using the original wheels and chassis. I seem to want to do things the hard way with this project!Smile, Wink & Grin

Thanks again.

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by John Busby on Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:27 AM

Hi Hon30criter

Almost certainly there are trolley modelling web sites, and clubs as well I would not mind betting.

I would sugest using model Trams or simillar as a search term as well as many country's call them trams.

regards John

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:05 AM

The trolley has finally arrived!

It is cute but it needs a lot of work. There are a couple of broken solder joints in the shell which look like they were 'cold' when assembled, and there are a couple of very shoddy attempts at repairs:

 

There apparently are some parts missing. There isn't anything to mount either the motor or the wheel wipers on. The commutators on the motor were pretty black so it has been used. The motor is huge so I am likely going to replace it with a small can motor so I can install an interior. The roof is wood and it doesn't look like the trolley poles have ever been installed because there are no holes in the wood and no marks on the brass mounting platform. The trolley poles seem to work fine. Some of the suspension springs are messed up or missing so I will have to find a set of new ones.

I asked this question in the Diner but I will ask again here: Are there any dedicated trolley modelling websites? I'll do a search myself but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Update:

After spending a couple of hours searching the net I haven't been able to find any sites that show detailed photos of a two axle trolley drive system. Therefore, it is time to invoke my Darth Santa Fe creativity skills and see what I can come up with on my own. This will take some thinking! I'm hoping I can still think!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 11:19 PM

BN7150
A Japanese internet auction had a record of $ 425.

Wow! Now I'm even more certain that I will rebuild the trolley as a working unit. Wait 'till I tell my wife! Actually, she fully supports my investment in the hobby.

BN7150
Is it possible to modify the wheel-base of the truck from 30 mm to 31 mm?

I'll have to check the SPUDs I have. I'm not even sure where they are right now. I'm not going to fuss if the wheelbase is off by a bit, but I will first attempt to use the original parts. I may replace just the motor. I have a ton of spare can motors on hand.

Thanks for the information.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by BN7150 on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 2:01 PM

Dave, congratulations on the successful bid. A Japanese internet auction had a record of $ 425. I think Tenshodo's SPUD is a good choice for smooth running. Is it possible to modify the wheel-base of the truck from 30 mm to 31 mm? Please note that SPUD wheel diameters are 10.5mm and 11.5mm. If you add a little weight, the current collection will be stable. By the way, just this year, Tenshodo released new SPUDs with coreless motor under the name "C-Power" series (photo). However, the 31mm wheelbase version has only 11.5mm diameter.

Tenshodo C-Power

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 11:44 AM

emdmike
One of the NWSL Stanton drives would be perfect for this.

Hi Mike,

I actually have several Tenshodo 'spud' drives that I scored years ago for precisely such an occasion. However, first I will see whether or not the original drive is viable. I can't tell if all the necessary mounting parts are present, but there are some obviously structural bits included. The motor configuration is a bit unusual but I think it is just a variation of an open core motor. It looks like replacing the magnets would be fairly straight forward if necessary. The commutator shows some wear but according to the seller the motor runs fine.

We shall see!

Thanks for your suggestions.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by emdmike on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 11:14 AM

One of the NWSL Stanton drives would be perfect for this.  Just need to fabricate a floor for the body as the drive is self contained.    Jeff Lemkee has seveal of these hard to find drives on his website(google is your friend).   I know where there is an O gauge trolley similar to this, but slightly different that is for sale at a shop in Indianapolis, even has its original box and massive open frame motor.     Mike the Aspie

Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 11:07 AM

Well, I won the auction for the trolley, and I think I paid a reasonable price for it although I paid more than I was hoping to. Fortunately the seller has agreed to ship via USPS First Class Mail which will be about half the cost of the Global Shipping (i.e. Global Rip Off) Program. I am very happy about that. I'm just waiting for the final invoice.

Once I have the trolley in hand I will be in a better position to decide whether to use it as part of a diner or get it running again. I'm leaning strongly in favour of getting it running again.

SmileBig SmileSmileBig SmileYesYeah

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 8:45 PM

Eric White
Bowser had a big line of white metal trolleys.

Hi Eric,

I saw one of the Bowser white metal trolleys for sale on eBay a day or two ago. I have to say that the casting was crude in that there was a ton of flash, and in some places it would have been very difficult to remove without ruining the details. I'm afraid that sort of modelling doesn't appeal to me for some reason.

I tried the link that you supplied but I got a "Dangerous Website" warning from my Norton Antivirus so I didn't pursue it.

Thanks for the information,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Eric White on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:09 PM

Bowser had a big line of white metal trolleys.

You can still find them in the usual places.

Bowser also sells drive kits that can be adapted to its old trolleys, as well as to other traction models. There are several makers of resin kits, usually around $100 each.

http://www.customtraxx.com/ is a great resource for trolley modeling materials.

 

Eric

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:05 AM

gmpullman
Bowser has a recent PCC car but if I recall, they also made a die-cast model of one. That may be another choice. TTC had a bunch of PCCs.

The TTC streetcars were affectionately known as the 'Red Rockets". I just bought one made by Bachmann. It doesn't compare to a Bowser unit but it was only about 20% of the price of a Bowser unit too.

The Canadian eBay site has about 60 brass trolleys listed right now, but there are only four that are small enough to fit my space, including the one I am bidding on. The other three are indeed better detailed and in much better condition, but of course they are more expensive too. I'm going to go for the 'sow's ear'! Doing the work will be fun!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:07 AM

hon30critter
The first trolley you listed is quite nicely priced, but it is a combine and I'm looking for something with all windows. The second trolley is way too long for what I have planned.

Those were just random examples, Dave. There were about a hundred listings under HO>brass>Suydam  (not all of the listings were for cars) in the US ebay site. BrassTrains does have a tendency toward deeper pockets.

Several were in the $150-180 range and looked pretty detailed. Suydam tended to produce Pacific Electric "Big" cars (Blimps?)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E-Suydam-Pacific-Electric-414-Niles-Calif-Suburban-Coach-U-E-T-Co-609-HO/143567664572?hash=item216d4cb5bc:g:Qi0AAOSwOfFef4cS

Since you mentioned a running trolley/streetcar I thought I'd mention that option.

Bowser has a recent PCC car but if I recall, they also made a die-cast model of one. That may be another choice. TTC had a bunch of PCCs.

 Toronto_PCC_1987 by Edmund, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 30, 2020 10:16 PM

gmpullman
Suydam was another popular line of brass, HO interurbans and street cars: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suydam-1300-Niles-Suburban-Combine-PE-14-Unpainted-Brass-HO/124107884585?epid=1871157925&hash=item1ce5680829:g:pKAAAOSwKpdeYUV0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Suydam-Co-HO-PACIFIC-ELECTRIC-TEN-1032-Class-Wood-Pwd-FREE-SHIPPING/383260682198?hash=item593c1de7d6:g:w3gAAOSwS1Jdv1xD

Hi Ed,

Brasstrains.com has several similar trolleys listed but they are mostly around $250.00 USD +. I don't want to spend that much.

The first trolley you listed is quite nicely priced, but it is a combine and I'm looking for something with all windows. The second trolley is way too long for what I have planned.

Thanks,

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 30, 2020 10:09 PM

dknelson
I happen to think a diner would be an excellent use for this relic.  I do not think it would be a sacrilege at all - why shouldn't a roadside diner be this nicely detailed, and why shouldn't a model streetcar enjoy the same honorable retirement as the prototypes did if they were lucky?

Hi Dave,

I'm torn between the two options, but I am leaning towards resurecting it, that is if I win it. There is still a day to go on the auction.

I just bought a cheap Tyco trolley shell which would be suitable for a diner. The details are a bit crude but the price was right.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 30, 2020 10:04 PM

rrinker
the wood roof probably IS original - easiest way to insulate the trolley pols and make them work,

Hi Randy,

That is quite possible. The wood certainly seems to have some age to it. I noticed that there are no holes in the wood roof for the trolley poles. That just adds to the mystery.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 30, 2020 10:01 PM

BN7150
The attached image is an advertisement for International Models Inc. published in the May 1955 issue of MR Magazine.

Hi BN7150!

Thanks very much! That certainly is the model. The blue print is identical to that shown on the eBay listing. The $10.00 1955 price works out to $96.50 in 2020 dollars.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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