I had a thought. A rare event true. This stuck at home thing, parents and others are looking to keep kids a d themselves occupied. A lot of tv stations are looking for thise ideas. Why not write in and prompt the hobby? Let them know its educational value ( history, geology, business, etc) and places like here and worlds greatest hobby, and NMRA for info. people have the time
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
NVSRR I had a thought. A rare event true. This stuck at home thing, parents and others are looking to keep kids a d themselves occupied. A lot of tv stations are looking for thise ideas. Why not write in and prompt the hobby? Let them know its educational value ( history, geology, business, etc) and places like here and worlds greatest hobby, and NMRA for info. people have the time shane
I assume you meant promote, not prompt. I might ruffle a few feathers but I'm not inclined to promote this hobby to others. My primary reason for that is the overall quality of the merchandise being sold. I've been at this for over forty years and I have no idea how much I've spent it but it's well into five figures and maybe even six. I don't feel I've gotten a good return on my investment of time and money mainly because I am constantly having to fix or tweak products that simply aren't of very good quality. I would expect that if I was buying cheap stuff but most of what I buy is high end merchandise and much of it turns out to be junk. There are a few companies that consistently produce quality products but there are way too many that don't seem to value the concept of quality control. When I buy a RTR piece of rolling stock, I shouldn't have to tweak it keep it from derailing. It should operate reliably right out of the box. I expect to upgrade the couplers but too often I am tweaking the trucks just to keep the thing on the rails. There is no excuse for that.
I've spent too much on this hobby to just chuck it now but if I had to do it over again, I either wouldn't have gotten into it or certainly not to the extent I have. I would not recommend it to a newcomer.
WHY ???.
I never did understand this idea that we as MRers have the ressponsibility to promote the hobby.
It, ''the hobby'' is not a secret, if someone is interesrted they will find it. I am aware of many hobbies that I have no interest in, aint nobody trying to get me to join.
If the hobby needs promoting, it should be the manufacturers, they are the ones who would gain anything, not me.
I didn't sign up to babysit
Either I've been luckier or I've managed to stay away from problematic brands, because I don't think I've spent way too much time fixing something that should have been right out of the box. Very little time, actually, the stuff I buy tends to just all work. A couple of dollars added to a model I paid $40 or less for because it has cracked gears is not something I consider onerous. There is little being made that I am interested in brand new where I would have to pre-order, and I've managed to (sometimes years later) acquire such "limited" items for, while not pennies on the dollar, well below the MSRP I would have had to pay to preorder. I don't have a lor of RTR freignt cars, usually I buy kits, but the RTR ones I have from Atlas, Athearn, Branchline, Kadee, Bowser, and others have all been fine right out of the box, other than changing couplers (I only use real Kadees, I have yet to find any of the knockoffs, even ones made of metal, that are as truly reliable) and, if they come with plstic wheels, I do change those for metal. I'm not sure what you consider "high end" but certainly Kadee cars are - which is why I onlt have a few, too expensive to build an entire fleet with them, and too delicate for regular handling, really. Maybe once my layout is up and running and I don;t have to carry them back and forth to club shows I will get more, they do look nice.
Over the years, all I've spent on lumber, track, roadbed, etc to build the various layouts I've had has generally translated into a fairly decent return for time spent. No, this is not a cheap hobby, but there are plenty of things I could do to blow money a lot faster than I do on hobby things.
Pointless to reopen the same old discussion, but really, there STILL are ways to stretch the time vs dollar spent - IF you actually like building models.
Only know one person still working? There are 3 adults in my house and we're ALL still working. One provides support services for the disabled, one works for the state agency that supports such people, and I am an IT consultant - many of our clients are taking advantage of the slowdown to implement projects that otherwise would require operations to be interrupted. Been making a lot of orders with local non-chain restaurants to help out when possible, several of my favorites are still operating, though I don't know how busy they are these days, especially since technically you shouldn't be going out to pick up a takeout order, but they are doing delivery.
Bottom line - I do think it's a good thing to promote model railroading as something the entire family can do together while stuck indoors, as an alternative to staring at the tube all day (ok flat screen, but you know..). Along with plenty of other activities like games and puzzles. The research aspect of model railroading is another activity you can do - and maybe even learn something in the process, and it's essentially free.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
UNCLEBUTCHWHY ???. I never did understand this idea that we as MRers have the ressponsibility to promote the hobby.
I agreed, it isn't our responsibility. Sure, for those who feel "called", knock yourselves out.
I am in the hobby for relaxing and enjoying trains. Evangelizing for the hobby would be more stress for me if anything.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
You don't have to go preach, just if someone asks you what you do for a hobby, don;t hide it. Some people seem to be ashamed of "playing with trains" as grown ups. But if someone asks, I tell them. ANd if they ask more, I'm sure to mention all the things that are included - History, Carpentry, Model Building, Electronics, Art, etc. If someone wants an idea for something they can do as a hobby, I suggest model railroading.
There are manufacturer initiatives, like the WGH thing. They are for 'converting' people if you can even do such a thing. Nothing I can say is going to convert a hardcore boater to sell off his boat and build a layout instead. But there's no reason to keep quiet if asked - that's a far cry from being an evangelist and a soft approach like that is more likely to make friends and new modelers than some hardcore approach.
I think that promoting the hobby is a good idea. I'm not talking anything like a bombardment of public service announcements, but putting the idea that this is a good pastime and a fun hobby out there wouldn't hurt. Too many kids, young and younger adults are absolutely glued to their phones and tablets, etc. Model railroading has a lot of value as a hobby. It teaches history, it teaches patience and problem solving, etc. Yes, you can and probably will spend a good deal of money on it, but many people do the same thing with their tech. Everytime a new model of phone or whatever comes out, people trade in their older, but still functional device because they have to have the latest and greatest. Another benefit is, unless something critical breaks and there's no spare, (like a power supply, for example), the model train layout will always be there. Not so with the tech. If the internet goes down for any length of time, your tech gadgets are virtually useless. So, that's my
John-NYBW I assume you meant promote, not prompt. I might ruffle a few feathers but I'm not inclined to promote this hobby to others. My primary reason for that is the overall quality of the merchandise being sold. I've been at this for over forty years and I have no idea how much I've spent it but it's well into five figures and maybe even six. I don't feel I've gotten a good return on my investment of time and money mainly because I am constantly having to fix or tweak products that simply aren't of very good quality. I would expect that if I was buying cheap stuff but most of what I buy is high end merchandise and much of it turns out to be junk. There are a few companies that consistently produce quality products but there are way too many that don't seem to value the concept of quality control. When I buy a RTR piece of rolling stock, I shouldn't have to tweak it keep it from derailing. It should operate reliably right out of the box. I expect to upgrade the couplers but too often I am tweaking the trucks just to keep the thing on the rails. There is no excuse for that. I've spent too much on this hobby to just chuck it now but if I had to do it over again, I either wouldn't have gotten into it or certainly not to the extent I have. I would not recommend it to a newcomer.
WOW!
I've been at this for about 54 years, and I worked in the retail side of this business for about 8 years, and I have my own good and bad views on how the hobby has evolved, but that is a pretty cynical view John.
My father was a "holiday" model railroader. That is he set up a rather elaborate model train layout just for the Chirstmas holiday, partly because of a lack of space for a permanent layout. His "Christmas" layout was 5' x 18'. It featured craftsman kit structures, kit built track, and various types of kit built rolling stock and locos.
It was HO, starting back in the early 60's, when you had to build a lot of stuff from kits, and, quality was sometimes marginal then as well.
Eventually we had room for a permenant layout, and so he built a nice layout, with the same two 5x9 platforms. This time with elevated track, plaster mountains, etc.
In just a few years it was handed over to my complete creative control. a few years later I was working at the local hobby shop, doing the repairs there, and was a member of a local club - I was 14, and one of a short list of junior members of the Severna Park Model Railroad Club, today well known and well published.
Now that you have some back ground on me, I will tell you what I think about your comments, and the state of the product being offered these days......
First, to some degree, I believe that HO will remain the scale of "modelers" despite the wealth of RTR these days, and despite the efforts of some manufacturers to create and capture a "new breed" of HO hobbyists who are more like highrail collectors.
In general the products offered in the last 20-25 years are incredible, and represent an incredible value - especially if you are a "modeler", and not just a collector of RTR toys.
Have they all been perfect? Not by a long shot. BUT, adjusted for inflation they have been no more expensive than the crudely detailed, poor running, very generic and basic products this hobby had in the 40's, 50's, 60's or even the early 70's.
So their improved detail, accuracy, running quality and large selection makes them an incredible value against the offerings of the 40's thru the 60's.
Has that "value" eroded some with increased prices in the last few years? Sure, so what?
I have my own set of "complaints" about the state of the model train industry, and I'm not one who has any interest in "recruiting" people into this hobby. I am also not deep into the social side of the hobby, a fact that has ebbed and flowed in the last 50 years.
BUT, I would rather buy a $200 loco that needs a minor "tweek" than a $500 one that is perfect?
Why you ask?
Because I'm a modeler, and that loco is not likely to make it to the layout without kit bashing, weathering, or other modifications anyway.
I have 7 Broadway Limited steam locos, basically the only products I own from them, 5 of them now have Bachmann tenders......
I have 35 Bachmann/Spectrum steam locos, most with tender swaps or other kit bashes. And most with minor "tweeks" to improve their operation, pulling power and general performance. They all run great. Glad none of them cost $500........
Have I bought a few "duds" that had big problems?, sure. Two BLI Mikados that they could not even sell me the right parts for. I tore them down and made them run good.......
HO trains will never be perfect out of the box? Why? because they are made by different companies yet expected to run with other brands, on track of questionable installation, under conditions the manufacturers cannot control.
And that is before they actually make a mistake or two in design of assembly.......
You mentioned adjusting trucks, , guest what I do? I replace most rigid frame plastic freight trucks with my own special trucks - Kadee sprung metal trucks refitted with Intermoutain metal wheelsets. Why, because they work and roll better......
I understand your frustration to a point, but this hobby will always require some craftsman/mechanical skills to fully enjoy, and it will always be "expensive" if done with any kind of medium or large layout.
And I have my own frustrations about product availiblity and how that would effect me if I was starting from scratch today. Those feelings come from having worked in this business.
This hobby is NOT for everyone, it is not even for everyone who likes trains........
It will remain a hobby for those with at least some sense of craftsmanship and willingness to learn such skills.
And to stay affordable at all, it is likely the products will continue to require those skills from time to time.......
I am about to put my skills to work once again on a new layout, about 1500 sq ft worth.......
Sheldon
TV is a visual medium. Not all of us have a..Howard Zane layout, just to take an extreme viewpoint. Local news shows here are sending the camerman and the reporter in separate cars so slim chance they will accept my cell phone video as suitable for a 60 sec spot on the news.
It is an expensive hobby and I sometimes have pause at spending my childrens future money. However I am the one that worked for it, so hard cheese kids.
Coin collecting was my only hobby that will not be a money loser. And that is because I collected when you could go to the bank and get silver nickles, dimes, 50 cent and dollar coins. I only have 2 or 3 coins purchased form a coin store and have been dragging the darn things around for 50 years with no more interest in the hobby.
Skiing, it's been a few years but the next to last time I went, someone in the lift line said he had a pair of skiis like mine in the garage (meaning they were really really old) Lift tickets, airline tickets, ski lessons, lodging and food for a family of 4 cost a lot and costs more today.
Motorcycling that was a loss, but no injuries.
Pocket watches are pretty but they have gone down in value
I knew someone who collected something produced by Sam Colt and designed by Gen Thompson, but he also spent $1 million dollars hunting in Africa. Good for that economy and taxidermists. When he downsized, he sold dozens of mounts at pennies on the dollar.
I know someone who collected vintage Lincolns. He had a home with an 8 car garage, car lifts, double decker car storage. Not everyone wants to buy a home like that.
I only know 2 people who profited from a hobby. One was a dentist who collected Toulouse Lautrec posters. The other was Frances Haussner, who owned a restaurant with her husband in Baltimore. They bought European art in the 20's and 30's and filled nearly every square inch of the restaurant. They also collected items from JP Morgan and Anderson Cooper's kin Cornelius Vanderbilt.
She was friends with my grandmother and we always went to the front of the very long line. Her hobby brought 10 million in auction, but by then she was no longer with the living.
However, like me, she got to enjoy her hobby while she was alive.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I remember a number of very nice meals at Haussners, including one time with then Mayor William Donald Schaefer at the next table.
Agreed, hobbies are not investments, I consider every penny spent on this hobby just like the money spend on those dinners at Haussners......
Back to promoting the hobby...I don't do that. I let people know THAT I am engaged in it, and will admit (now, looking back) that I may have caused some fixed smiles on some faces when I waxed enthusiastic over the hobby in my early days, but my default has always been to elicit from others what they like to talk about.
When in groups, a conversation should best be shared in the way of subject matter, and if you go strictly by the numbers, those who are interested in toy trains number about 1/200 across populations. Give or take 100. So, if someone asks (even if just to be polite or because of a pregnant pause and awkward silence), I keep it to the point, short, and let them decide if they'll brace themselves and ask a following question. It's always at their peril.
I expose my grandsons to the hobby, and they do appear to enjoy it. I'm under no illusions, though, because electronics of a different kind have a heavy dopamine and serotonin footprint in their budding brains.
In my country, the hobby doesn´t really need any more promoting. This is wonderfully done by venues like Miniatur Wunderland and the fact, that trains are still very much present in every day life.
However, I´d like to chime in with those, who think it may not be the time to promote a rather expensive hobby. The lock-down due to the virus provides a serious threat to our economies all over the world. Right at this moment, the number of businesses closing is already staggering. People see their jobs endangered and have their minds set on somehow financially surviving what´s coming onto them, but certainly not on a hobby. Pushing it these days would have adverse effects.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
As far as promoting the hobby You Tube and Facebook seems to cover that quite well.
As far as the hobby..
Guys, I going to speak plain.. After a life time in the hobby I can say it has help me get through both happy and troubled times.. I still enjoy the time I spend enjoying the hobby. I don't regret the money spent nor would I take back one second of enjoying the model trains.
However..
I even thought of "retiring" like a real railroader..
But,how does a person retire from a hobby that has given him a life time of enjoyment?
I can't and won't.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I remember a number of very nice meals at Haussners, including one time with then Mayor William Donald Schaefer at the next table. Agreed, hobbies are not investments, I consider every penny spent on this hobby just like the money spend on those dinners at Haussners...... Sheldon
I am not at all ashamed of mentioning what I do with my spare time. I've also learned to have pretty low expectations of converting others to join us. But that's OK, nothing ventured, nothing gained and I do a little better than that most days.
What might be good is promoting the hobby INTERNALLY, to people we already know are interested. For some, that could be offering a helping hand at layout construction or showing someone how to install a DCC decoder. For others, it might be joining the NMRA. Someone else might have some spare equipment they promised kinfolk but never got around to cleaning it up and getting it to them for their kids to enjoy - now there's time for that.
I'm sure others have similar opportunities that aren't burdensome and may be more than usually fruitful at times like these.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman I am not at all ashamed of mentioning what I do with my spare time. I've also learned to have pretty low expectations of converting others to join us. But that's OK, nothing ventured, nothing gained and I do a little better than that most days. What might be good is promoting the hobby INTERNALLY, to people we already know are interested. For some, that could be offering a helping hand at layout construction or showing someone how to install a DCC decoder. For others, it might be joining the NMRA. Someone else might have some spare equipment they promised kinfolk but never got around to cleaning it up and getting it to them for their kids to enjoy - now there's time for that. I'm sure others have similar opportunities that aren't burdensome and may be more than usually fruitful at times like these.
Now that is the best idea I have ever heard about promoting this hobby, and something I have always done, offer help and support to those who have already made some commitment to giving the hobby a try.
And while I am not socially active in the NMRA, I have been a loyal member since 1968.
rrinker You don't have to go preach, just if someone asks you what you do for a hobby, don;t hide it. Some people seem to be ashamed of "playing with trains" as grown ups. --Randy
You don't have to go preach, just if someone asks you what you do for a hobby, don;t hide it. Some people seem to be ashamed of "playing with trains" as grown ups.
Maybe as a teen that would have been a problem because teens can be real mean, especially Jr. High ages. But for a long time now, I'm past caring or worrying about such things. But I also don't feel "called" to promote, or as the OP said, prompt.
riogrande5761 rrinker You don't have to go preach, just if someone asks you what you do for a hobby, don;t hide it. Some people seem to be ashamed of "playing with trains" as grown ups. --Randy Maybe as a teen that would have been a problem because teens can be real mean, especially Jr. High ages. But for a long time now, I'm past caring or worrying about such things. But I also don't feel "called" to promote, or as the OP said, prompt.
I was a very active teen modeler, as explained above. I did not preach or promote the hobby to others, but I did not hide the fact either. I never had any trouble as a result, in junior high or high school. People knew I was the guy who built models and trains and who worked at the hobby shop.
They also knew I was the guy who could tune the carb or put a cam in their Chevy.........
But then again, my self esteem has never been invested in the opinion of strangers or casual acquaintances.
Being a model railroader was the least of my issues as a teen. And who says slot cars and trains can't coexist, I was big on foolign around with the 1/32 and 1/24 stuff my Dad had left over, back around the time I was in 8th grade - in addition to trains and computers. My science teacher actually gave me a huge back full of 1/32 slot car stuff. Never had a problem because of those interests, although it was shortly after I got my first computer, I had the manual with me (it was a kit) and I was perusing it during free time when some of the 'jock' types grabbed it from me and wrote some derogatory things in it.
Might be different where some of you hang out, but when I went to the plywood specialty place and they asked what my application was and said it was for a model railroad, the response was clearly trying to cover some embarrasment or something similar. But after the initial response they were very helpful.
The delivery guy thought it was pretty cool, when I told him what I was using it for as I helped carry it off the truck. But mostly he wanted to buy my pickup - totally stock 1992 Toyota with just over 69000 miles on it - 6 cylinder 5 speed.
My life got a lot better many years ago when I stopped caring what others think, and worked more on what I think of myself. I got the education I wanted - not changing majors multiple times, I knew what degree I wanted to go for by the time I started high school. Of course life never ends up exactly how you plan, but I have a job I mostly enjoy, it pays me well enough to afford a decent house, a nice car, and several hobbies I enjoy - so why be bothered with what someone else thinks about your choices?
riogrande5761Maybe as a teen that would have been a problem because teens can be real mean, especially Jr. High ages.
I was very active in both modeling and railfaning when I was a teenager and many of my classmates knew that because my mug was on the 6:00 pm news.. You see the Columbus HO Club was holding a open house for a NMRA Division 6 meeting.
I was busy making passenger trains up in the Portsmouth passenger terminal yard and wasn't paying attention to the TV camera crew until I turn around to give a engineer has train slip and that's when I look directly into that fool camera.
The only two that mention it was a girl and she told me her Uncle has a lot of trains and the other was a boy that stated he would like to see that train set up-meaning the layout..
As a side note..The club's layout was point to point and every train had to be reclassified from a Sandusky to Portsmouth train to Portsmouth to Sandusky train.
What's wrong with showing/telling others about this hobby? No need to feel shame for playing with trains. If we don't encourage others, good luck on it growing with new products and ideas that can address some of the quality issues we experience daily. We're not a secretive cult.
kasskaboose What's wrong with showing/telling others about this hobby? No need to feel shame for playing with trains. If we don't encourage others, good luck on it growing with new products and ideas that can address some of the quality issues we experience daily. We're not a secretive cult.
Again, I have never hid or acted ashamed about the hobby, and I am happy to share with people who express an interest.
But that is way different from "promoting", promoting is actively looking for "recruits", that I will never do.
BRAKIEAfter a life time in the hobby I can say it has help me get through both happy and troubled times.. I still enjoy the time I spend enjoying the hobby. I don't regret the money spent nor would I take back one second of enjoying the model trains.
Perfectly stated!
The job of recruiting new hobbiests falls to the hobby shops, manufacturers, and the NMRA.
They are the entities who depend on "new blood" in the hobby.
I am on the backside of the hill, and I have purchased probably 95% of what I will ever buy for this hobby now. Advertising to me is a waste of time at this point.
I will enjoy my layout all by myself.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I had no idea what to expect when I clicked on this thread.
I won't go out of my way to promote the hobby. I think others are smart enough to figure it out. I did.
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge