Hi all
Does any one have a plan or know where I might find one of a tny store, a house or tiny something else that could easily be made out of little more than cerial box card.
Yet still nearly have enough detail to make it worth keeping and adding to my model railroad once built
I have been caught out with the ever changing anti Virus measures and can't get any other materials at this time, I am slowly going nuts with boredom
regards John
With a cereal box, Xacto knife, and a set of colored pencils, you can have a blast.
I don't have any plans, but I have entertained myself with these when travelling for work.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
John BusbyDoes any one have a plan or know where I might find one of a tny store, a house or tiny something else that could easily be made out of little more than cerial box card.
Hi John,
I'm going to suggest that you can make your own plan just by doing some pencil sketches. I'm sure you have a picture in your mind of what you would like to build, so transfer that image to paper. It doesn't matter if you are an artist or not. All you need to do is decide how many doors and windows you want on each wall and roughly what you want the roof to look like. Don't worry about the size of the initial drawings.
Once you have sketches of the four sides of the building then you can use a scale ruler to get the sizes more accurate. If you don't have a scale ruler just use a regular one. One inch equals 7' 3" in HO scale. It happens that 7' is about the height of a standard entry door, so if you start by drawing a door 1" tall then you can estimate the sizes of the rest of the building. Exterior walls for a single story frame building will be a little less than 9' tall (1 1/4"). The tops of windows will be at roughly the same height as the tops of the doors, and the bottoms of the windows will be roughly 30" (5/16" in actual size) from the floor which is where the bottom of the door will be. The roof slope will vary but a common slope is 5/12. In other words, for every 12" the roof goes across, it will rise by 5". If you are modelling an older building you may want to make the roof steeper.
Details like window and door frames can be added by just cutting out the shapes of the frames and gluing them to the walls. If you want deeper details then use a couple of layers for the frames. If you want to have crisp paint lines then consider painting the window and door frames and the walls separately before assembling them.
If you want to model brick walls or shingle roofs there are image libraries online with literally hundreds of different pictures of various surfaces that you can copy and manipulate to glue onto your walls and roofs. There is one particular website with lots of free images but I can't remember the address. I'm sure someone will provide it.
Don't forget to leave gluing tabs on the tops and sides of your walls. You can get a crisp bend by lightly scoring the cardboard along the outside of the bend line, emphasis on 'lightly'!
I hope my suggestions help you accomplish what you want to do.
Show us your results!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Krafttrains.com has free downloadable, printable structures.
They suggest printing them on 110# cardstock. I don't know what that is, maybe a manilla folder would suffice. Around here Office Depot allows one to pick up online orders, despite the lockdown.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
https://krafttrains.com/
Interesting site!
I still encourage the OP to try his hand at designing his own buildings.
I have a nearly half maybe idea what I want or do I
Am thinking US Wild West come Colonial Australia Gold rush many many similarities between the two
That done right it could be either and believable in both.
I though maybe a tiny store / shop with some thing like a 10' or 12' frontage and a false front but not sure how tall and deep the structure should be or door and window style.
The small size is to try and avoid needing extra suport that I can't provide no 1/8" square small wood.
John BusbyI though maybe a tiny store / shop with some thing like a 10' or 12' frontage and a false front but not sure how tall and deep the structure should be or door and window style.
First of all, the window style would definitely be multi-pained simply because shipping large sheets of glass in that era was not practical. Small rectangles of glass don't break nearly as easily as large ones.
Depending on the 'quality' of the structure, the doors could be multi-panel for more refined buildings, or simple vertical planks with straight and diagonal crossmembers for more rustic structures.
Given your era, the roofs will be steep, i.e. 12/12 or 45 degrees.
If you are modelling a single story structure with a simple peaked roof, the side walls will be about 9' tall. The height of the false front is up to you, but I'm guessing that the average false front would be about 6' higher than the peak of the roof. Notice that I said that I am guessing. This is a situation where you have to use your judgement as to what looks right.
The length of the structure is entirely up to you. I would ask what will fit in your space if you have a place in mind on your layout?
Extra support can be had just by laminating a couple of layers of card stock together. If you are going to do that I would suggest weighting the laminated pieces down with a couple of heavy books or a couple of larger cans of food on top of a piece of plywood or a small cutting board - whatever will provide even force over the entire wall/roof section. Let them dry thoroughly before proceeding!
You can also use 'L' shaped pieces to keep the walls and the roof lines straight. Cut a piece of stock 1/2" wide and then gently score it down the middle. Fold it to 90 degrees and glue it to the inside of the wall or roof.
I hope that I'm not being overbearing with all my advice. If you want me to shut up, just say so.
Hi Dave
The more advice I can get the better for me.
I have come a bit late in life to card construction only just started playing with it just before the virus thing started should have started many years ago.
I don't really have many old enough magazines to get ideas and tips from.
Other than your going to go through a few blades as card does not like even slightly blunt blades and you change it at the first sign of that.
I thought part of the idea of the false fronts was to give the "look how posh we are" impresion and you just have to trade with us for quality merchandise.
Also to hide the more mundane less, may be a lot less impresive structure lurking behind it.
John BusbyOther than your going to go through a few blades as card doesnot like even slightly blunt blades and you change it at the first sign of that.
I totally agree! Dull blades are useless. Doctorwayne re-sharpens his but I haven't either the patience or the skill. I bought a pack of 100 blades a few years ago and there are only a few left.
At one time, I built wood and cardstock structures, but when styrene modelling supplies became readily available, I pretty-much gave up on the old-syle modelling. I find styrene both easier to use and less susceptible to degradation over time.
On my other Forum, I'm doing some scratchbuilding of small structures using styrene, including door and window castings - much easier and better-looking than any I ever did using wood. Here's the front of the one first-done....
...and the rear...
This is the rear (track side) of the second one...
...and the side facing the aisle of the layout...
I have at least three more to build, all railroad-owned, so pretty-much the same paint scheme, but various free-lanced designs. The two shown replace structures formerly represented by de-commissioned boxcars.
I always keep a good supply of sheet and strip styrene on-hand, and was surprised when starting these projects on just how much I have in the way of Tichy and Grandt Line doors and windows...unlikely to run out before my time runs out.
The building process can be seen HERE, and the other three (or more) will be added as I work on them.
Wayne
Dr Wayne: very nice looking structure! Are the shingles .010 styrene strips cut part way through? Just curious.
If one is using cereal box thick card stock, it will need to be reinforced with something or the structure will not last.
Some of the craft stores will do curbside pickup if you can get out of house at all. Try Michaels, Hobby Lobby, or Blicks, or Aaron Bro's. Just a suggestion.
I would recommend .0625 (1/16) poster board for a more enduring structure. I think the std size of one of these is 36"x40" actual if I remember correctly.
Best.
Jim (with a nod to Mies Van Der Rohe)
Cutting cereal box (or dryclaner "shirt") cardboard cleanly can be a challenge because it is both thin and soft. There was a Kalmbach video a couple of years back - I cannot recall if it was on the "free" part of the MR Video Plus part of this website - showing cereal box cardstock being laminated to coffee-stir type wood using double sided very thin transfer tape. That video is what made me start to use 3M transfer tape (the same stuff I think that makes peel 'n stick parts in laser cut kits). But the cereal box cardboard was strictly a medium to hold the wood in place.
I have known some craftsman/scratchbuilders who make their own windows and doors and do a great job, but I agree with Wayne that once you get used to the fine detail on Grandt Line and Tichy (I'd add Rix/Pikestuff/Smalltown) plastic windows and doors that sets the level awful high for those who still want to "roll their own" (or use the older era of cast metal winows and doors). That said I am impressed with what the laser cut kit folks can achieve in the way of multiple-part windows and doors in wood.
Dave Nelson
All I can add, is you don't need a plan, just an idea.
Do a search for photos of what you want and use it as a guild. The folks who built them back then built by need and what they had on hand,both materials and tools.
I would suggest, that you shouldn't expect a ''keeper'' the first time out.
More then a few ways to brace cardstock with cardstock.
A few of my noplan builds;
Real nice UncleButch.
Mike.
My You Tube
For shingles, I just cut a paper sack into long strips. Then I cut the strip about halfway through width wise and there you have shingles. Then you overlap the first run of shingles by glueing the second run over the first run. ( Glue them down on the part you didn't cut, kinda overlap them , and stagger them a bit with the shingles below.)
Rust...... It's a good thing !
I do a lot of scratch building for my layout and like to use Google Maps Street View for building design ideas. Look up an area you know to have a lot of buildings from the era you're trying to model and use Street View to find a suitable candidate. Once you've found a potential candidate, use the regular street map and/or aerial view to determine the likely building footprint. Its especially fun when you can find a suitable existing building(s) located in the area you're trying to model. For example, there is little historic photographic documentation for a particular area of a town I modeled on my layout (late 1950's era). However, there is a Methodist church still standing since its construction in 1926, well before my layout era. Thus, I modeled this church as a landmark structure for this area and, along with the triangular street configuration, many vistors to my layout easily recognize the location even though the rest of the buildings in the scene are no more than a best guess.
Hornblower
SCRATCH
Some of you knows I scratch most of my structures using wood, plastic or any suitable stuff to build them in N scale
I also use left over cardstock piece, wood pieces like you, cigar box.
INSPIRATION
For the most my scratch models comes from pictures I find on the net; since I model the period 1930-1943, historical site are a never ending ressources to find a good looking building which is a real candidate to be build.
Inspiration comes also from model I see on layout tours or kit to be sold in HO since I model exclusively in N scale; but many comes from my own imagination; I try to build model which are very "eyes"catching, with numerous different roofs and materials to build the model.
THE WAY I DO
When I have make my choice of a nice model, I first sketch it on a page of paper, I also put numerous remarks around the sketch, most of the time I have on hand only one side of the building; it's seldom to have the four walls with pictures; so the most of the time, the front facade is like the picture, but I use my imagination for the rest of them; this is not really difficult to imagine a back of a building when you have the front of it; also pictures of other building can help you to imagine the back walls or side walls if you need to model them.
I do the same for my own designed building.
A PLAN
When you are ok with the sketch and the way the building is going on, you need a plan to build it; Why, because a plan avoid for the most time to make mistake during construction, he also allow you to make change or adding some parts and see if all work together; a precise plan is very helpful to cut the pieces you need to build the model.
As a rule I don't use any compression on my models; scale and measurements are done by comparing a car, a locomotive, a window or even a door from or around the building on the picture; by using these points you can evaluate the size of the future building; there are also on historical site some charts which give the measurements between floors, the height of ceiling for a floor; numerous small informations for theperiod contractors, which help you to determine the size and the volume of the model.
My plan are precise, to an 0.5mm, I draw them the old school using a pencil , a rule and some architect draw tools.
All my windows comes from Tichy; I have done a list of all the measurements I need to draw on the plan, these measurements are the necessary future opening I need to cut to put the windows on the model.( the inside frame of the window)
My plan are also a reference when building the model, the plan can also be used later to build a sister or a modified model in the future inspired by the basic plan.
I'm now learning Corell Drawn to design my future plan and also use in a near future a Laser and a CNC machine to work with.
BUILDING THE MODEL
It's necessary to provide for an easy build, some provision in the plan to glue the parts together; from the beginning in the plan you need to know which wall go between other ones because this determine the size of the parts you need to cut and also assure to build a square model.
I use for the most, stuff from Evergreen, Northeastern wood, Tichy, Redutex, Plastruct, Will's, Kibri.
All in all this seems a big work to accomplish, but most of the models you see in the following pictures were "sketched" "planned" in one or two evenings, building the models is around a week.
These two N scale buildings come from my imagination.
The wharf is largely inspired by a Fos scale model but modified it to my taste in N scale
Marc, now that you're in Quebec, how is your layout coming along?
I also do N Scale scratchbuilt structures. However, you are quite a bit higher level talent and ability than me. You do great work.
I once tried to do some N windows, but gave up and buy mine from Tichy.
Original poster John, I second what some others have said. Get an idea, maybe by just driving around an older section of town, and then just start working. Mistakes can be thrown away and new sections cut.
Good luck, and if possible, take some pictures for us.
York1 John
up831Dr Wayne: very nice looking structure! Are the shingles .010 styrene strips cut part way through? Just curious.
Thanks for your kind comment, Jim. The shingles are paper ones, from Campbell. I used gelled contact cement to affix them to the .060" sheet styrene roofs, as I didn't want to trust the bond to the pre-gummed backs of the shingle strips. The first structure's roof was weathered lightly with washes of thinned acrylic paint, while the second one was painted, in a similar manner, to match the grey/green roof of the nearby station.
Thanks for all the tips most helpfull.
I don't think going into town checking shop fronts for model making counts as an essenital outing
However have been on the net and I am now confused some pictures show the front the same width as the eaves of the structure, some pictures show the front the actual width of the structure with the eaves sticking out like you would expect on a house.
So not sure which way to go, but I have settled on 12' X 12' as the nominal structure size not counting the eaves with a 15' high false front Mini's Emporium seems like a good name for it.
That way if I do a job of it and I am happy with the finish, its small enough to find a spot somewhere for it.
If it turns out a mess no great loss just try again when things settle down.
Think I will have to check the super market when I have to go shopping for cheap birthday cards for the more refined parts.
Unlikely to be able to get post cards that aparently is good modeling card
Hi Marc_Magnus
Like the squared paper idea
Are you trying to frighten me off with those wonderful buildings
York1 Marc, now that you're in Quebec, how is your layout coming along?
Hi,
Thanks for the kindly comments, I don't know if I'm on a high level or not for my scratchbuild structures in N scale; I just try to build good models which are very eyes catching, seems this is important specially in N scale to attract the eyes on a structures which is often "lost" in the great scenery.
About my layout extention,
The winter is going to the end, good day are coming and the temperature is more attractive to work in the layout room.
Because of the epidemic, I have a lot of free time; I didn't ask to play with the devil, so I try to stay home as much as possible knowing is the only real therapy against this *** thing.
With all this free time, I have time to begin to clean the future layout room which was an old wood workshop used by a carpenter, You can't believe how much wood dust I have wash up,; even the smallest holes is full of dust.
The room has a suspended ceiling; inspection shows it need to be cleaned too, so just now I have begun to dissasemble the ceiling to clean the dust; the goal is to vanish any wood dust from this room for ever !
Before to put it back I will paint the ceiling and adjacent wall and put back in place the suspended ceiling, I will also modify the lighting system of this ceilling.
I hope to finish the cleaning job in the next coming week if time permit it.
If I still have more free time I will begun to build the metallic structure to support the workbench and also the attachement for the future valence
Because of the time we all live now, I'm don't know when the contractor will begun the heavy work on the building, hope this summer, but I must wait for the end these works before any layout construction; I also need to make a new electrical installation for the layout room with different power lines; one for the layout power, one for room lighting, one for layout lighting, one for room power socket; the room will have his own electrical panel power safety with a general off switch.
Just to say a lot of work before any layout work, but may be this free time will shorten at the end the time needed to do it.
Well I am geting somewhere with the design faze the squared paper idea worked very well, still playing with the top of the false front at the moment as to top center design.
Looking at on line pictures of false fronts has raised some questions.
Board and batten siding looks like a possible way to get a bit more detail on the structure. instead of just minimalist flat walls with detailed windows and doors in them.
I do have other ideas rattling around the brain but they are more distractors than details.
How wide should the boards be?? like it or not the battens are going to have to be 1mm I just can't cut anything smaller in card I have tried to see how small I can go and that seems to be the limit.
Also I can't find a picture that indicates what if anything stops the false front being ripped off the building in a stiff breeze after all in a breeze logicaly it would just act like big sail.
Any thoughts??
How do you frame a window on board and batton?? the batton would get in the way of a nice flat fit for the window frame.
Polite reminder this is only going to a tiny HO structure only 12' X 12' or close enough to those dimensions.
Also Basicaly this is a virus lock down boredom buster and a lets see if I can do a usable scratch build in card with what I have avalable.
Not including any lettering or wall bill board posters if need be thay can be added later.
I have not decided what Mini's Emporium actually sells yet I wanted a very posh sounding name that said what ever it is get it from Mini's
Just thinking outloud;
The false front is really the front wall, above the roof. The framing would start at the bottom. They could range from, 8in to 24in wide. Most of mine are 12/16in wide. So no.the wind would not blow them away
Some tops are fancy, while others are just flat. Depended on ''who'' was building ''what''
Back in the day; 12in wide boards were common,many even wider. I have seen boaed and batten as narrow 6in. I believe most battens were around 2in wide, but they and we use what we have.
The windows and doors were trimed out first and the batten was run up to the trim, not under it.
Have you considered a tar paper wall. Simple to make, tissue paper and paint.
Just another choice, other then b&b or lap siding.
Funny how I had the exact same idea yesterday! I was running my trains on my fLat "plywood pacific" layout and I though hey, wouldn't it be nice to through together some structures to represent industries.
Now I'm stuck inside like everyone else, and anyway I have a limited budget and time for hobby things, plus I live overseas where there is no such thing as a hobbyshop, so I can't get things to build real structures. But, I have been saving a bunch of cardboard for something...
So I picked one of the thinest piece I have, google pictures of grain elevators, and started cutting out walls. I used a freight car to figure out how big the hole for the car should be and guessed the other dimensions based on pictures. I glued it together with regular white glue!
The result was a horrible looking mess of cardboard, not at all passable for a structure on any layout, but I had nothing before so now I have the rough shape of a grain elevator and that will entertain the operations part of me and the details part of me can imagine a better structure!
Now it sounds like the OP was talking more about a more permanent layout, which I've got little experience with so I'll leave the gap between my description and what he want's to other to fill.
Meanwhile I'm having fun sporting cars at my cardboard grain elevator!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Hi UNCLEBUTCH
It is the type of fancy top I am pondering flat with fancy bits or a pointy center with fancy bits or rather a crude version of it that works
Roofing felt walls (tar paper) thats an interesting thought not one I would have concidered without the sugestion, no tissue but do have masking tape and that has a slight texture to it so might work with thin paint.
Would the wall have battens or just be "flat" except at the overlap joins.
Would the tar paper run up and down the wall or horizontal, l don't mind a flat wall that is suposed to be flat.
Hi SPSOTfan
Yes I am talking about a for a permanent layout structure, not a mock up.
I am no John Allen or John Ahern both pioneer modellers from oposite sides of the pond who used card and wood as modelling medium's for structures.
You can get some details by layering the card and using different thicknesses as needed for others you use other bits.
I have very little referance matierial to guide me so I am learning by doing and having fun at the same time.
I sugest doing the same as me start small and simple then move to more complex as you learn new things.
One thing I have learned is no blunt craft knife that will give the card a ragged edge and spoil the model so blade change at the first sign of loosing the sharp edge.
Have a think about what you could do to improve the grain elevator or add details it doesn't have and try again and make a better one.
I would have though at least some of a grain elevator should use thicker card both for looks and strength
have fun
John BusbyWould the wall have battens or just be "flat" except at the overlap joins. Would the tar paper run up and down the wall or horizontal, l don't mind a flat wall that is suposed to be flat. regards John
I have seen both, any many combinations thereof, so take your pick.
But the most common is the paper running up/down, and battens over the seams.
I use Kleenex facical tissues, seperate the plys, use only only one. but have also used the tape,along with wet/dry sand paper. Aint no rules.
As to the top; I have seen were they used a thiner material, and layered, but offset. Like a upside down step
Thanks for the further thoughts and hints.
I think??? I just about have a workable plan now.
Based on what I have front with simplified but hopefully enough details made of card and matches one window one door.
Sides and rear of building battend tar paper four battens per side its only 12' square planked door in rear wall, roof if I have some corrugated iron sheet if not card tiles shingles or slates, stove pipe cotton bud stick with paper china mans hat on top if I can manipulate the paper into shape it will be a pretty small circle to make it
A rollie paper should be thin enough for the steel sheet around the stove pipe if it ends up being some sort of tiles.
Now if I can make up my mind on flat top or pointy bit in the middle of the false front I can get on with it.
If I go with the pointy bit what would be good to go in that Est year?
Not sure what years the USA pioneer / gold rush / wild west type days beloved of the movies where.
But in my town dates from our gold rush not that I have really paid atention to them are on some buildings in some cases even the original trade or purpose names as well as the current business name.