Cranes and Steel Mills
Hey Brian and All,
Just 2 days ago I stumbled upon an amazing video (in my mind) of a layout that has some serious detailed history of PA steel mills. The owner has incorporated very historic/realistic operations of steel mills in western PA but also included the heavy construction side of these massive complexes
For Brian...this video has modeled heavy construction cranes...and the steel mill aspect that you brought up in older topics.
It was made by Mr. Stephen Bennet and he filmed Mr. Scott Woods layout.
Hope this give you several ideas Brian. (pay attention in the background....there are cranes everywhere.)
https://youtu.be/YgltMfmFZp4
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There are a number of cranes thruout this video,...per these examples
https://youtu.be/YgltMfmFZp4?t=2270
https://youtu.be/YgltMfmFZp4?t=3482
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
railandsailMy question is was it the dam on the Conowingo river that kept them from barging that reactor piece up the river to the job site?
I don't know how deep the river would be if the dam weren't there. Total weight of the load was around 1000 tons if I remember correctly. The would also have needed a place to ground the barge to be able to lift/roll the load off the end.
maxmanBack in 1970 one of my first jobs was to walk with the Peach Bottom nuclear plant reactor vessel from the barge at Havre De Grace, Md., to the jobsite. The vessel was carried suported on each end by a modified base of a 4600W. The load broke down on the I-95 medial strip.
I graduated from Aberdeen high school, and knew Havre de Grace pretty well. My question is was it the dam on the Conowingo river that kept them from barging that reactor piece up the river to the job site?
Interesting 'personal' observations,...thanks
gmpullmanWith simply relaying hand signals we could place a piece of equipment, sometimes lowering it through a hole cut into the roof, with velvet-glove precision.
I once had to remove a cooling tower from the roof of an urgent care center.
The crane operator that showed up did not know the standard hand signals, and very quickly we had a bad situation on our hands.
After that, I always specified the crane companies we would work with.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
My first week on the job at GE. I was a Millwright-C (apprentice) Our task was to remove the catwalks on top of the tank to be replaced.
CWW_jan29_0018 by Edmund, on Flickr
SeeYou190If you have ever been on a job site with a mediochre crane operator, you will instantly appreciate working with a good one.
CWW_jan29_0019 by Edmund, on Flickr
This guy set that tank in place like setting a milk bottle back in the holder.
Often times we had to work out of sight of the operator, say well into the roof area.
GEfaceAK_0010 by Edmund, on Flickr
With simply relaying hand signals we could place a piece of equipment, sometimes lowering it through a hole cut into the roof, with velvet-glove precision.
GEfaceAH_0041 by Edmund, on Flickr
GEfaceAG_0014 by Edmund, on Flickr
Sometimes I miss those days.
Regards, Ed
SeeYou190 the Classic Construction Models Manitowoc model 4600
Back in 1970 one of my first jobs was to walk with the Peach Bottom nuclear plant reactor vessel from the barge at Havre De Grace, Md., to the jobsite. The vessel was carried suported on each end by a modified base of a 4600W. The load broke down on the I-95 medial strip.
So an urgent call was made to the jobite to have "pads for a 4600W" delivered ASAP. After a wait, a trailer load of pads roared up. Pads, you see, are those heavy timber beams linked together to make a mat to support a heavy cranes weight.
Unfortunately the "pads" needed are also the rectangular rubber (metal?) sections that make up a crane's track. What we had there was a failure to communicate.
As an aside, the reactor vessel was basicaly a round cylinder that had a bunch of stubs to which piping got attached. The insurance company rep visited the load every day. So one of the iron workers got a ladder and penciled in a jagged line between two of the stubs. From the ground it looked like a crack. When the rep got there we were all standing around looking up at the "crack". Insurance company reps do not have a sense of humor.
railandsailHow might you put that piece into place, if it arrived basically assembled?
That scene is absolutely not in any respect realistic for how that component would be installed with a crane.
railandsail..BUT what good is all that weight going to do when you have very long lever arms (very tall booms) creating big overturning moments when only 'reaching out' just a little bit.
As I said in a previous post, modern cranes are extremely complicated and loaded with sensors and redundant safety systems.
There is a reason why crane operators are so well paid.
If you have ever been on a job site with a mediochre crane operator, you will instantly appreciate working with a good one.
railandsail I don't think many folks understand how critical that can be,...including me at times.
I don't think many folks understand how critical that can be,...including me at times.
Yeah, that would include quite a number of crane operators too. Just watch "crane fails" on you tube. Some accidents can be attributed to mechanical or structural failures and such, but some are pure miscalculation and stupidity.
Dan
I get it that the crawler types can be much heavier than those with tires, ...BUT what good is all that weight going to do when you have very long lever arms (very tall booms) creating big overturning moments when only 'reaching out' just a little bit.
railandsail I saw this crane being used on the layout of the York Pa model railroad club,...
I saw this crane being used on the layout of the York Pa model railroad club,...
How might you put that piece into place, if it arrived basically assembled?
NVSRRThat option is never really used unless absolutely needed. Usually there is an excavator onsight that they will do that move with. It just easier. and less liability if solething goes wrong i dont approve that move on my sites as there is almost always an excavator on site that can easily handle that load.
My experience has been the same. Even cranes designed as "lift and carry" units are seldom used for that. There is usually a better option available.
Interesting link posted on another forum...
https://www.liebherr.com/en/usa/products/mobile-and-crawler-cranes/mobil...
You might like their site here if you have never checked it out Brian. Other crane companies have the same thing.Here is a company we use at work frequently.
https://ccgroup-inc.com/
Yes the outriggers do spread further on the prototype. Altho rubber tire cranes are heavy, they are limited to road weight limits. So the out riggers need to be longer to create a bigger footprint to make up for the lighter weight of the base unit. Tracked cranes are far heavier. For the same size lifting capacity. A plus in tight working confines. The tracked crane base is shipped in many pieces. The tracks undercarriage assembly also telescopes outward to square up the footprint. Instead of a rectangle. Something missed on models alot. These tracked (crawler) cranes dont usually have outriggers because they are used in situations where loads need to be lifted the. Walked to location to be set. Rubber tire cannt walk a load to position. Only swing it in.
The only rubber tire cranes designed to walk a load are the RT (rough terrian) series. But that is a limited function restricted to a light maximum weight and lift height. And boom extentsion. short didtance of travel as well. That option is never really used unless absolutely needed. Usually there is an excavator onsight that they will do that move with. It just easier. and less liability if solething goes wrong
i dont approve that move on my sites as there is almost always an excavator on site that can easily handle that load.
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
A couple of the model cranes I've collected up,..
Kibri #10438
Kibri #10738
Kibri #10784
Kibri #10202
Langley Models makes some cranes in N scale ( really 148 scale).
I have built two and they look good.
don't think that I ever took a photo.
they cover other scales too.
SeeYou190 railandsail I wonder if they ever built something like these tracked vehicles to support crane loads like these tall structures could handle ?? Brian, I am sorry, but I have read this sentence several times and I can not figure out what you are asking. Could you please re-phrase the question. -Kevin
railandsail I wonder if they ever built something like these tracked vehicles to support crane loads like these tall structures could handle ??
Brian, I am sorry, but I have read this sentence several times and I can not figure out what you are asking.
Could you please re-phrase the question.
Sorry about my wording. What I was referring to is with tall heavy lift cranes like these I would think you would need a broader 'base system' /spread to support the crane rather than just that narrow, somewhat short track base??
Look at the intracacy achievable with photoetching in this (unfinished) crane from Metal Earth. It's probably about z scale, the HO A-100 pickup is there for scale comparison. So, if they were to take this pattern, enlarge it to HO, make the handrails and a few other details more proportional...
What an opportunity those with photoetching capabilities are passing up in not exploring the HO market, N scale, and any others with cranes and any number of other items that could best be made in this format, right? They have a Cat excavator That looks close enough to HO for me, although too modern for my layout. Dan
What an opportunity those with photoetching capabilities are passing up in not exploring the HO market, N scale, and any others with cranes and any number of other items that could best be made in this format, right? They have a Cat excavator That looks close enough to HO for me, although too modern for my layout.
railandsailI wonder if they ever built something like these tracked vehicles to support crane loads like these tall structures could handle ??
Track fiddler I have one I never met a master styrene modeler that made me feel inferior before The mans work was phenomenal His display was at the big train show that only comes through St Paul about every 7 to 10 years N scale all custom built piece-by-piece with styrene I'm not saying I don't think I could do this but I would need a whole lot more time on my hands and a strong desire to want one to make the time With that said I just had to appreciate this talented artist's work TF
I have one
I never met a master styrene modeler that made me feel inferior before
The mans work was phenomenal
His display was at the big train show that only comes through St Paul about every 7 to 10 years
N scale all custom built piece-by-piece with styrene
I'm not saying I don't think I could do this but I would need a whole lot more time on my hands and a strong desire to want one to make the time
With that said I just had to appreciate this talented artist's work
TF
Those are wonderful models, but I wonder if they ever built something like these tracked vehicles to support crane loads like these tall structures could handle ??
railandsailBTW, that boomed out counterweight feature on the Kibri #16000 is quite interesting.
Telescoping counterweights are an incredible technology and greatly increase the lifting capacity of a crane without increasing the size of the transport envelope.
They are also incredibly dangerous if they malfunction. I don't know of any crane tip-over that can be attributed to counterweight malfunction. The safeties and redundant sensors on these systems is bewildering.
Brian, sorry, your Kibri model is barely similar
BTW, that boomed-out counterweight feature on the Kibri #16000 is quite interesting. I though I had 2 of these, but I can't find the other one.
Do any railway cranes like that operate in the United States?
I was involved with one that was built in Wisconsin, but it was placed into service in Tibet. It could lift a locomotive off of one track, swing 180 degress and place the locomotive on another track. The railway cranes I have seen in the USA are different designs.
The one I am familiar with had a shockingy small diesel engine. Looking at the two pictures Brian posted of other rail crane models, those look like they also have very small engine compartments.
Brian, sorry, your Kibri model is barely similar. That is like saying a Ford pickup is similar to an EMD GP-40. They both have internal combustion engines and can pull things, but not really similar.
Mike,i like the looks of that yellow crane of yours. I have something like it,...a Vollmer HO #5625,...never built...
.....looks like it is no longer available?
I think there are a few cranes at this show...
http://www.p-kun.com/gallery/topics/shizuoka2008/show2008-2.html
...including this particular one that can ride the rails...
Kibri made a model of this one, #16000
I have one, along with a somewhat similar model on road tires.... Kibri 10130
Dave, the kit you linked to is what I have in my post. I haven't figured out what I'm going to build yet.
Out of the package, they look very good.
Mike.
My You Tube
NJ International makes crane boom flatcar loads.
https://www.walthers.com/crane-boom-section-freight-load-kit-pkg-5-each-section-6-1-2-x-1-x-3-4-quot-empty
How useful they'd be to actually make a crane boom I have no idea. I thought Plastruct made some too but cannot seem to find them.
I believe the various Kibri offerings are Liebherr prototypes.
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the compliment, Peter.
This is the kit that started it off:
I also have two of the Walthers powered American crane cars, and I found a package of lattice crane boom sections on Ebay.
Not sure what I will build, but I just had to have them:
Neal, that Menards crane is pretty close to a Liebherr crane, maybe something in the 800 to 1200 series.
Menards has some HO scale construction cranes. I have one of the large towe cable excavators on the layout.
https://www.menards.com/main/search.html?search=HO+scale+diecast&page=2
Neal