SeeYou190 Wolf359 Just out of curiousity, what make of 2-8-0 is that? The best 2-8-0 that was mass produced that I own is the Bachmann/Spectrum Baldwin Consolidation. Mine is now inoperative, but it was my workhorse for years on my previous two layouts. It died when a truck mounting screw in the train it was pulling worked loose, caught on a crossing, and stopped the train dead. Ever since then, this locomotive has made a clicking noise when going forward. It works fine in reverse. Mine is about 20 years old, and was straight DC when it was made. I understand the newer versions of this locomotive are even better. I have modest layout aspirations and do not own massive fleets of locomotives, so I can only tell you I was very happy with the one I own. All of my fleet steamlocomotives are brass except for two, this 2-8-0 and my Bachmann/Spectrum 2-8-8-4. I might add a Bachmann/Spectrum J 4-8-4 at some point, or maybe not. These Bachmann locomotives all run like fine precision instruments. -Kevin
Wolf359 Just out of curiousity, what make of 2-8-0 is that?
The best 2-8-0 that was mass produced that I own is the Bachmann/Spectrum Baldwin Consolidation.
Mine is now inoperative, but it was my workhorse for years on my previous two layouts. It died when a truck mounting screw in the train it was pulling worked loose, caught on a crossing, and stopped the train dead. Ever since then, this locomotive has made a clicking noise when going forward. It works fine in reverse.
Mine is about 20 years old, and was straight DC when it was made. I understand the newer versions of this locomotive are even better.
I have modest layout aspirations and do not own massive fleets of locomotives, so I can only tell you I was very happy with the one I own.
All of my fleet steamlocomotives are brass except for two, this 2-8-0 and my Bachmann/Spectrum 2-8-8-4. I might add a Bachmann/Spectrum J 4-8-4 at some point, or maybe not. These Bachmann locomotives all run like fine precision instruments.
-Kevin
Thank you for that information. I've acutally been hunting for an unlettered version of one for a little while, as it's a pretty good match for Midland Terminal engine 61. https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/53573/rec/2
Have you ever tried taking your loco apart and seeing if something inside is broken or out of alignment? It almost sounds like the sudden stop may have damage a gear or knocked one out of proper alignment. I have a Bachmann USRA 0-6-0 that used to click going forward. It turned out that the gear on the axle had a crack in it, but I was able to repair it with super glue and some very gentle, fine filing. It runs great now. I even found a YouTube video on repairing cracked gears and axle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re7YKAkz3D0 I hope that it can help you get that fine looking engine back into service.
P.S. Sorry everyone for taking this thread
dknelsonThe prior owner regeared his Mantua Booster, presumably for slower-speed performance. The original kit has the worm gear on the motor shaft mesh immediately with a regular gear on the axle.
Indeed.. Slow speed could be obtained by ensuring the drivers,side rods, pistons and slide valves worked smoothly. My 0-6-0T could roll 5-6" on a slight test grade created by me holding the end of my test track board up about 1". I also ensured the gears mesh smoothly after installing the motor. I did this by rotating the armature with my fingers.
IMHO building a steam locomotive kit drive requires a lot of patience and testing during assembly..
The reward is the joy (pride perhaps?) from seeing that engine move slow and smooth for the first time. IMHO there's no joy quite like seeing the fruits of your labor come to life.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
That's the one that went missing after I took a few trains in to display in my elemenatry school showcase (with parental permission). We had both the 0-4-0 and the 0-6-0, never got the 0-4-0 back.
I don;t remember how sharp a track it would run on, the sharpest curves we had were 12" for the trolley line throught he town, and one loco I know could handle it was the old American Flyer HO diesel switcher, 4 wheels with side rods. And of course the little Tyco 4 wheel trolley.
Whoever regeared and remotored that took the quick way out - they should have made an angled piece of something, styrene would have worked, to adjust the motor mount, instead of just filling up the whole space with adhesive like that. Could glue the plastic to the frame and the motor to the plastic with silicone caulk, but to make a big pile of it - that's not going to turn out well. Definitely not the original motor. The original motors were copies of the Pittman DC-71 witht he brushes on the sides, not top and bottom. Looks like a plain old block magnet, not neodymium. It's got a shiny finish on the outside of the pole pieces, but the magnet is the block in the back.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
SeeYou190Ever since then, this locomotive has made a clicking noise when going forward. It works fine in reverse.
Is the clicking coming from the middle of the engine, or is it louder on one side? If it's more on one side, it might be the siderods. I've had a couple of Bachmann engines where one of the eccentric rods had gotten bent in a little and were hitting the siderod when going around. It usually is something I find when I first take it out of it's package - I assume they get bounced a bit in shipping from China - but it might happen later due to some unfortunate accident.
I try to run the engine as slowly as possible, and see if I can get it to 'lock up'. That usually then shows you where the problem is...if that's the problem.
Wolf359Just out of curiousity, what make of 2-8-0 is that?
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 Still only one decent 2-8-0. -Kevin
Still only one decent 2-8-0.
Just out of curiousity, what make of 2-8-0 is that? It might be something I'll have to keep an eye out for.
dknelson And minimum curve radius? 2 1/4"!
In order to get the locomotive around a radius that small, the track gauge would probably needf to be adjusted wider.
There was an article I read several years ago about getting 0-4-0 locomotives around insanely tight radius curves. It went through all kinds of modifications. There was an 0-4-0 that ran around a silver dollar as the inside rail that someone built.
Yes, you have that right. It is a newish open frame motor, very shiny magnets that makes me think they might be neodynium. The new gear system has a big spur-small spur reduction that must be about 4:1 from just eyeballing it. I haven't actually counted the teeth. The big spur is now off center to make room for the snall spur. It would be ideal, IF the steel worm gear would just stay meshed with the big spur gear. The problem is that the rubber glue motor mount has some give to it, and allows the worm to rise up a skosh and loose mesh with the spur.
I could just remove all the old rubber glue and restick the motor with fresh silicone. I know a lot of people have reported good luck just gluing motors in place with silicone. I have never tried that, yet. Could be the existing rubber glue is/was not up to snuff, or has aged, and replacing it with fresh silicone might do the job.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarr Here is the mechanism. And we have gear mesh problem. The motor is just glued in place and the glue has some give to it. When it gives, the worm falls out of mesh with the spur gear and the locomotive just stops and whirs. I think I have to peel the motor loose from the glue, clean out the glue, drill and tap a couple of holes in the bottom of the motor, and make a shim about 1/8 inch thick to hold the motor level and in mesh. And drill two holes, that match the motor holes, up thru the chassis. Assemble, check gear mesh, disassemble and add or subtract shims. Repeat until it works right, forward and reverse.
Here is the mechanism.
And we have gear mesh problem. The motor is just glued in place and the glue has some give to it. When it gives, the worm falls out of mesh with the spur gear and the locomotive just stops and whirs. I think I have to peel the motor loose from the glue, clean out the glue, drill and tap a couple of holes in the bottom of the motor, and make a shim about 1/8 inch thick to hold the motor level and in mesh. And drill two holes, that match the motor holes, up thru the chassis. Assemble, check gear mesh, disassemble and add or subtract shims. Repeat until it works right, forward and reverse.
Oh-ho! The prior owner regeared his Mantua Booster, presumably for slower-speed performance. The original kit has the worm gear on the motor shaft mesh immediately with a regular gear on the axle. Based on recollection, on mine the gear on the axle is nylon I think while the worm gear is steel (unless I have that reversed). Whatever, the regearing evidently made the original motor mount hole unusable.
If you do decide to drill new mounting holes just remember my earlier precaution that the metal may be brittle with age. The idea of just refreshing/renewing the glue that holds the motor in place (which may well have given Owner #1 years of good service) may be safer.
I just looked up the engine on HO Seeker, and it says the (original) gear on the axle is nylon. And minimum curve radius? 2 1/4"!
Dave Nelson
I just use silicone. The motor might be jumping if it is not positioned correctly.
Simon
carl425The Dockside is probably the most overproduced model locomotive in history relative to the number actually employed by the railroads. Especially the B&O model. I think the B&O had 4 of them.
If you go all-time HO, maybe.
If you only count the last 50 years, since 1970, I am pretty sure the Big-Boy is the most over-produced model locomotive.
UP only had 25.
Endless manufacturers have flooded the market with these 4-8-8-4s to the point of absurdity.
dstarrAnd we have gear mesh problem. The motor is just glued in place and the glue has some give to it. When it gives, the worm falls out of mesh with the spur gear and the locomotive just stops and whirs.
I have had excellent results "gluing" motors in place with PSI Systems green/blue Kneadatite epoxy putty. It has plenty of working time to get perfect gear mesh and hold tenaciously when fully cured.
One of the first locos I bought with my own money was a 0-4-0. A similar one to your's, but the shell was plastic. It still runs 40 years later... Your's is definitely worth restoring given the valve gear and metal parts. I recently started restoring a saddletank 0-4-0 (a brass Japanese import). I kept the original motor and put in a 1 amp keep-alive decoder. It stalled on the turnouts a bit too much to my liking... Now it runs very well. It still needs paint but I will get there some day.
0-4-0 dockside on Flickr" alt="" />
The Mikado is another great candidate for restoration. The Mantua motor upgrades are rather hard to find. So are the Cary boilers. I would change the motor with a Mashima that can easily be found on Ebay from Chinese suppliers. Order now, it may take a while to get there... Until then, go for switcher!
dstarrOr, alternate project, a Mantua Mikado.
dstarrIt needs the usual. It runs fairly well. Maybe replace the Alnico magnets with neodynium super magnets.
Mantua/Tyco made a replacement 'kit' to replace the open-frame motor with a Mashima can motor - after about 1990 Mantua engines generally came with the can motor stock. You probably could find one online, not expensive and an easy 'drop in' replacement.
dstarrWants a cast brass pilot, air compressors, generator, bell, power reverse, maybe more.
Not sure if it's still around, but Cary used to make a replacement body shell and parts to upgrade the Mantua 2-8-2 or 4-6-2 to a USRA-style body.
dstarrDown size the tender trucks to four wheels.
That wouldn't look right under such a large tender. Better to search out an old Mantua medium-sized tender, like used with their 2-6-6-2, or a medium-sized MDC one.
I once built and detailed a Mantua 0-6-0T (Lil' Six) and found it was a fun and relaxing project. I added a Kemtron whistle,bell,front and rear Pyle headlights with visor,a water hose,broom, rerailer,wire handrails,uncouling bars, fuel and water lids (made from Evergreen Plastic shape) and spark arrester. The hardest part for me was filing the cast on headlight from the zinc alloy boiler.. A Dremel tool would have saved a lot of filing but,at that time I didn't have one.
I used this engine on my Kinniconick Veneer & Lumber Co mill switcher. A 1 X 8' switching layout set in 1924 with Roundhouse wood boxcars and flat cars.. I detailed these car with uncoupling bars and air hoses.
I'd start with the 0-4-0T. (Usually the name "Dockside" is reserved for models of the B&O prototype, which this model is not). With its slightly visible Belpaire firebox it is vaguely Pennsylvania RR in outline, which might explain the green paint chosen by the prior owner. But it was meant to be generic not specific in prototype.
The model is the Mantua "Booster" and it shared boiler/cab with an 0-6-0T that Mantua called the Little Six. Both were popular kits (sold ready to run under the Tyco name back when Tyco was a quality label) in the 1950s and 60s, and pull very well for their size what with the all metal construction.
Best of all the prior owner of your model purchased the after-market valve gear set that Mantua sold for years, rather cheaply, but rarely advertised so most Boosters and Little Sixes lack valve gear. That would be hard to get now, so be thankful you have it and be careful with it. The prior owner also installed some detail parts and in general invested time in the model.
While the early versions of the Booster had a pretty good open frame motor, and if carefully assembled the engines were smooth and quiet runners, if you are adept at remotoring it could improve results BUT do notice when you remove the boiler/cab casting from the frame that the interior of the casting is very tight quarters. You might decide to stick with the slender and long open frame motor rather than attack the casting (which MIGHT be brittle) with a router or motor tool so that a can motor could fit. You know best.
Working with zinc alloy white metal castings that Mantua used takes some skill and some compromise since normal soldering won't take hold on the metal. Guys drilled holes and epoxied parts on or -- an old trick - drilled and tapped a hole, inserted a brass screw which they then cut off even with the exterior surface, and soldered parts to that bit of brass. Because the metal is old and perhaps brittle both techniques call for care and caution.
Getting to know zinc alloy (and how to carefully file off unwanted detail) and Mantua's general ways of doing things makes the 0-4-0T good practice for the Mikado model. That is certainly the sequence Mantua itself suggested in its 1950s literature - start with the Booster or Little Six and then graduate to their other offerings. By the way a common modification to the Mantua 2-8-2 was to squeeze in a two axle trailing truck making it a 2-8-4. I remember Mantua had an ad which featured "kitbashing" by its customers and one guy made a very plausible C&O Kanawa 2-8-4 from his Mantua Mike.
When the Mantua Mike was a new kit it was all metal. Then eventually the cab was plastic. Then the cab and tender became plastic. I have no idea which version you have but as with the switcher, a Mantua steamer can pull and pull and pull. As with the Booster the 2-8-2 seems to have no precise prototype but somewhat resembles various engines of various railroads (some claim the boiler is closest to a Wabash 4-6-4 of all things).
Have fun. And report back with results.
I have, in good running condition, a Bachmann Consolidation and an AHM Berkshire to haul the freight, some Moguls for commuter trains and peddler freights, and a Mantua Pacific for the passenger traffic. I do have a bunch of little sidings for a Dockside to shuffle onesy and twosy freight cars, spotting them on loading docks.
The reason for so many model Docksides is that it is a small and cheap locomotive (about as small as they come). Plenty of kids layouts could only afford a $10 Dockside.
The Dockside is probably the most overproduced model locomotive in history relative to the number actually employed by the railroads. Especially the B&O model. I think the B&O had 4 of them.
I would not do the Mike first, I would do the Mike only.
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dstarr I think I will start with the Dockside, I lack anything that small and I have some jobs for one.
If you have an immediate need for the small 0-4-0, that sounds like the correct choice to start with.
I would say do the one you're most partial to. That's what I would do. That being said, the 0-4-0 dockside sounds like it would be an interesting project. I love rehabbing old locos like that. I recently rehabbed an old Atlantic that I bought for a bargain. It wasn't running when I got it, but I took it apart and ovehauled it and it runs great now and is now one of my favorite locos. Have fun!
Time to do another steam locomotive. I have two, both train show finds. First we have an 0-4-0 Dockside Tank switcher. Previous owner did some work on it. Wire grabs and handrails. And the green paint job.
It needs take apart, cleaning and lubrication, it runs but just barely. It could use working headlamp, an engineer, and a decent coat of dark gray auto primer. Glaze the cab windows after painting. Decals, either for a private owner, say Presby Timber Co, or a railroad, B&M or MEC. It looks to be pretty well fixed for details, bell, whistle, handrails, wire grabs and such. Maybe a generator.
Or, alternate project, a Mantua Mikado.
It needs the usual. It runs fairly well. Maybe replace the Alnico magnets with neodynium super magnets. Wants a cast brass pilot, air compressors, generator, bell, power reverse, maybe more. Down size the tender trucks to four wheels. marker lamps with jewels. Engineer. Glaze the cab windows. Paint and decals for B&M although the real B&M had few to no Mikados, they went right to Berkshires from the older smaller Consolidations. Working headlamp, maybe constant brightness. I'm out of full wave bridge rectifiers and Radio Shack is toast, so I will have to mail order a single cheap part.
Anything else? I think I will start with the Dockside, I lack anything that small and I have some jobs for one.