Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Q. re "ZIP KICKER" for ACC

2018 views
21 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Q. re "ZIP KICKER" for ACC
Posted by wjstix on Monday, March 2, 2020 9:27 AM

Over the weekend I was working on a caboose. While using ACC and Zip Kicker spray to glue some parts in place, a little overspray from the Zip Kicker got on the inside of one of the caboose windows and fogged it up. Is there anything I can use to clean the window so it is clear again?

Stix
  • Member since
    August 2013
  • From: Richmond, VA
  • 1,890 posts
Posted by carl425 on Monday, March 2, 2020 10:06 AM

Based on the Zipkicker ingredients (VM&P Naphtha, Dimethyl-p-toluidine, Xylene, Ethylbenzene), I believe your window is probably permanently fogged.

You could avoid this problem in the future by using a mist of plain water or water with a little baking soda dissolved in it as your accelerant. 

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Monday, March 2, 2020 3:15 PM

Does ZipKicker claim it's "foam safe"? If not, it's possible that a foam safe kicker might avoid this issue. I don't use my foam safe kicker much, but haven't had an issue with it yet like this one - but I could just be lucky.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Monday, March 2, 2020 4:25 PM

Thanks for the replies. It was kind of an odd situation; I was trying to glue metal figures in place inside one of the new Bachmann HO bay-window cabooses with the small bay windows. I used some ACC and a little ZipKicker spray, and a little got on the side window on one side. It's not opaque now, but isn't as clear as the other one. The caboose doesn't have an interior (it's mostly used up by two stacked weights) so it's not that big a problem that you can't see inside that well I guess...might even be an easy way to 'frost' windows for buildings without interiors.

Stix
  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, March 2, 2020 5:04 PM

ACC, as it off gases, can fog the windows as well.  A better choice would have been tacky glue or 5 min epoxy

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • 1,950 posts
Posted by NVSRR on Monday, March 2, 2020 9:49 PM

BigDaddy

ACC, as it off gases, can fog the windows as well.  A better choice would have been tacky glue or 5 min epoxy

 

canpy glue would do as well

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,190 posts
Posted by mvlandsw on Monday, March 2, 2020 11:28 PM

I don't like to spray the Zip Kicker. It covers too big an area. I dip a fine wire into the bottle and place a small drop directly on the joint.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 12:11 AM

I have never kicked my zip.

Am I the only one that prefers slower setting CA glues? I am not good enough to get it right the first time. A kicker seems like I would be inviting a disaster.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 4:07 AM

SeeYou190

I have never kicked my zip.

Am I the only one that prefers slower setting CA glues? I am not good enough to get it right the first time. A kicker seems like I would be inviting a disaster.

-Kevin

 

Plus it states right on the accelerator instructions that it's use, weakens the bond. I stay with Medium CA......Zap-A-Gap and BSI (Bob Smith Ind.) which is an Insta-cure Medium Ca..I build a lot of models that need CA.......especially Brass etched parts for Warships.

The bicycle is 1/87 scale in this photo:

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 5:09 AM

SeeYou190
I have never kicked my zip.

Ahh, c'mon Kevin, live a little.

I don't use kicker all that much anymore, although it caught my eye at first learning of it for a time. I like to build with good strong joints and kicker tends to degrade that some. However, CA can be pretty strong stuff, so a little weaker is plenty strong enough most of the time.

That said, I have Essential Tremor, which comes and goes, but which can make positioning things tricky. For some things, I need to be able to place an item and let the CA set before I send it off in some unforeseen tangent. For that sort of stuff, I like to have kicker available.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 7:31 AM

In the past, I was successful applying a thin coat of Future wax, but I haven't tried the product that replaces it (is it Pledge? I forget). 

Simon

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 10:57 AM

The link below (if it works?) is to the caboose in question. Normally with figures I would be using Walthers Goo to attach them to their seats. However, this caboose doesn't have any interior so I was trying to glue two of the old-style Bowser metal train crew figures to the interior side of the car. In retrospect, I should have "gooed" one guy in place and let it sit for a few hours to harden before turning the car the other way around and gluing the other guy in. But I figured a little ACC might hold the first guy in place and then I could do the other right away. I hadn't figured on a little of the ZipKicker spray getting on the inside of one of the bay windows.

https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=258_324_355_1083&products_id=6737&zenid=kko44f9vld66sskbpr0nv12533

Stix
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:05 AM

Slightly off topic, but $61 for a plastic caboose???

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:05 AM

NVSRR
 
BigDaddy

ACC, as it off gases, can fog the windows as well.  A better choice would have been tacky glue or 5 min epoxy

 

 

 

canpy glue would do as well 

That's what I was thinking as well, or why would it be called "canopy" glue?  Airplane canopy's are windows too!  Wink

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:18 AM

richhotrain

Slightly off topic, but $61 for a plastic caboose???

Rich 

Have you not seen the Athearn Genesis bay window cabooeses?  The version in 2012 without lights was discount priced at about $60 give or take.


The Centralia Intermountain SP Bay Window cabooses are MSRP $59.95.

The up coming "plastic" Genesis bay window cabooses are will be MSRP 109.98 and 149.98 and will look better than brass.

And don't forget Tangent "plastic" cabooses B&O/Chessie $89.95 and they sold out pretty fast.

 

So while some may be ok with Athearn blue box or MDC generic cabooses, or Atlas etc. some who model particular railroads find having model cabooses that actually match that RR's cabooes a must.  I know for me, trains just looked "wrong" without the correct caboose.  I'm sure Mike L can relate. 

Certain things are "signature".  I was willing to fork over $220 each for most of my painted brass cabooses and as high as $275 recently but for D&RGW I was pleased to get it for that.  Two recent D&RGW cabooses sold for $430 and $450, respectively.   I did manage to find a brass unpainted D&RGW EV caboose for $90 but I expect Athearn to be adding the Rio Grande EV cabooses to their line-up, so I will not be among those bidding up painted brass EV cabooses to silly prices.  I bet they will be kicking themselves when the value drops after the detailed plastic EV cabooses are released.

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:30 AM

My now NLA B&O Spring Mills Depot caboose was $60

The lighted Athearn bay window lighted caboose is $93 and with sound and lights $121 at a popular NY mail order strore.

$61 MSRP for a Bachmann caboose is optimistic.  $40 at a different online shop.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 12:54 PM

I wasn't gluing the windows, I was gluing fairly heavy metal figures to the side of the caboose since there was no interior - no seats - and there really was no other way to do it. The glue had to support the figures. Canopy glue is usefull when gluing windows in place, but not for gluing metal to plastic. Besides, I didn't get glue on the window, it was ZipKicker spray.

Re price - interesting thing that. The 'Great Train Show" was in St.Paul Saturday, and there was a dealer selling a lot of Bachmann stuff. I thought the prices were good but wasn't sure how good - then realized right across the aisle was the Bachmann display booth with free catalogues. I got a new catalogue and found out the prices at the retailer were about 1/2 of list price, so picked up the caboose and one of the new covered hoppers with flashing EOTD for less than the list price of the caboose by itself.

Stix
  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:01 PM

Stix,

Just about the best there is for gluing disimilar materials, drys crystal clear for an extremely strong bond. Loctite GO-2 Gel.  I highly recommend it. Been using it for a few yrs. now and it beats the hell out of Canopy glue, which I have also used. For the acetate and styrene windows in the scale trucks I build, I use G-S Hypo Cement, which is a Jewlers cement. Goes on clear and drys crystal clear, also a very strong bond. Most modelers in the know, use it, instead of canopy glue.

The above adhesives are NOT CA/ACC.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-GO2-Gel-All-Purpose-0-6-fl-oz-Glue-1832982/205478359

https://www.amazon.com/Hypo-XTL-1001-Precise-Essential-Applicator/dp/B000RB60I8/ref=asc_df_B000RB60I8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194857335027&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9186295205583710136&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021618&hvtargid=pla-312761312627&psc=1

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 8:34 AM

snjroy

In the past, I was successful applying a thin coat of Future wax, but I haven't tried the product that replaces it (is it Pledge? I forget). 

Simon

 
As it happened, I had some of that floorwax (I had used it a while back on a water scene on the layout) so tried it. The results were very good! Before the window was about 75% fogged up, now they're much clearer - maybe 90% clear now. As I said, the car doesn't have an interior and won't be lit or anything (may add lighted markers at some point) so I just needed the windows so you could see the crewmen inside the bay windows on both sides, and now you can. Thanks!!
Stix
  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 2:39 PM

What about trying the stuff that is used to clear the fog on the clear plastic exterior of car headlights?  Perhaps on a Qtip or microswab.

Dave Nelson

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 2,775 posts
Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 4:48 PM

Hey, glad it was useful.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 6:39 PM

Darned if there isn't a useful guide for The Polish Formerly Known As Future:

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

The 'final step' solution in a DVD repair kit might also fill in the small etching spots that the 'kicker' has produced in the plastic surface with a material close to the 'same' index of refraction.

A problem is that most of the people who have worked out the chemistry to fill small glass or plastic scratches durably have seen dollar signs in their future and carefully marketed the material as part of an expensive kit or worse yet, a proprietary franchisable 'repair system'.  That is why you can't just drop a little solution (from a nice large bottle with reasonably long shelf life) on a cracked windshield to wick in with capillary action, or fill in a gouge or scratch and trim it level with a straight-edge blade.  

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!