Since I don't currently have a layout. I have been checking over my rolling stock and I have discovered something. Everything I have checked so far has need truck shims to bring the coupler heights up to match my kadee coupler height guage. Usually about 2 .015 shims worth. Is this normal? Most of my stuff is Athearn blue box kits. Or do you think my guage could be off. I know if I use my guage and make everything match it should operate fine no matter.
I assume you're using a Kadee gauge? They're usually right. You could cross check it against the NMRA coupler spec (25/64" from railhead to center of the coupler) just to be sure with a caliper or ruler.
That said, if there's a margin for error, it's a wise move on a manufacturer's part to come in a little low. It's much easier to make any final adjustments by adding the shims to raise it than it would be to cut on the bolster to lower the car if it was too high.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Will double check. What you said about the manufacturing makes sense.
Athearn Blue Box freight cars will be all over the place. Usually 40 foot house cars are a little low, and 50 footers are a little high, but anything is possible.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
This prompted me to go check a bunch of my BB's, covered hoppers and box cars, and no issue, using the Kadee gauge.
Are you sure you have the gauge sitting on the track right?
Mike.
My You Tube
All my BB cars have .010 to .030 inches of shims in place.
And mine have no shims, hit the coupler gauge right on. Must be like what Kevin said, "BB's are all over the place" with heights.
"Are you sure you have the gauge sitting on the track right?"
I wondered this myself and double and triple checked to make sure it was seated all the way down.
All my Athearn BB cars have low couplers straight out of the box. I fix this with ordinary #6 flat washers, one under each truck.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I'm still in bewilderment about this, as all I do, is remove the horn hook and replace with the Kadee 148 whisker coupler, snap the cover back on, and it hits the couple gauge right on.
THE only other thing I do, is replace the wheel sets with 36" IM wheels.
Folks,Save yourself some trouble and get the MicroMark coupler height gauge.
https://www.micromark.com/Coupler-Gauge-for-HO-Standard-Gauge
It's $11 well spent.
Why?Because it's a "Go-No Go" gauge. Put it on the track, put your car up to it, and if the coupler (standard knuckle) fits between the two bars, then it is okay. If it doesn't fit, then it's off. No questions, no "well, maybe...", no doubts. It either fits or it doesn't.
It also includes a "brake hose" (uncoupling lever) height gauge on the other end.I have also found that the Kadee gauge isn't always accurate. The MicroMark gauge, being solid metal with no moving parts, is much better.
mbinsewi,Putting 36" wheels on what is supposed to be a 33"-wheeled car is adding 0.017" in car height. Kadee red washers are 0.015" thick, so you're actually adding more than that.BTW, 36" wheels are for passenger cars and modern freight cars. Most of the Athearn BB fleet wouldn't qualify for 36" wheels.
Paul3Save yourself some trouble and get the MicroMark coupler height gauge.
I made my own from brass. It has a pocket receiver for the coupler knuckle to go into. If the coupler height is 0.005" too high or 0.005" to low it will not go into the receiver. I know all of my couplers are within 0.010" of one another.
The Kadee gauge requires a visual check. I prefer a positive pass/fail test over visual verification.
All of the cars that pass my gauge test will always be perfect when checked with Kadee's height gauge.
Mine also has a trip pin gauge, but last time I brought up the trip pin gauge in conversation here I started a bunch of controversy.
I can't post a picture because it is packed away.
Folks,Save yourself some trouble and get the MicroMark coupler
I will look into it need to get their truck spreading pliers anyway.
Paul3BTW, 36" wheels are for passenger cars and modern freight cars. Most of the Athearn BB fleet wouldn't qualify for 36" wheels.
OK, well, my fleet is modern, so I'm not considering just what BB freight car is the topic here.
I have nothing with running boards, nothing under 50'.....So, I'll just be happy with what I have. Many of the "modern" box cars I have, are BB kits, along with the many PS1 type covered hoppers, and centerflows.
mbinsewiI have nothing with running boards, nothing under 50'.....So, I'll just be happy with what I have
Mike, it sounds like you have a system that works well for you. Swapping out the 33" wheels for 36" wheels might be why you are not needing any shims.
Roll on!
Hello All,
Shimming the bolster can be effective, up to a point.
If the shim stacks are over 1/16" the car might become top-heavy, tippy and cause string-lining derailments.
When I have a car that needs that much correction to bring the coupler into alignment I will use an underset coupler from Kadee.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Hello All, Shimming the bolster can be effective, up to a point. If the shim stacks are over 1/16" the car might become top-heavy, tippy and cause string-lining derailments.
With the Athearn blue box, I file the nub/lip on the bolster enough to allow me to snug the screw down so at least one of the trucks pivots freely but does not rock - so no tippy tippy.
When I have a car that needs that much correction to bring the coupler into alignment I will use an underset coupler from Kadee. Hope this helps.
Yes. Even though I snug down the truck to stop the rocking motions, I do prefer to limit the number of washers to 2 at most, maybe 1 gray and 1 red, but usually just one red KD fiber.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
When BB cars are properly built this is the results. You start by straightening the frame and some time the weight. Below photo. A 50 boxcar and 50' gon.
URL=https://s105.photobucket.com/user/Brakie-2/media/Picture-005-3.jpg.html][/URL]
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
mbinsewi I'm still in bewilderment about this, as all I do, is remove the horn hook and replace with the Kadee 148 whisker coupler, snap the cover back on, and it hits the couple gauge right on. THE only other thing I do, is replace the wheel sets with 36" IM wheels. Mike.
Most Athearn cars come in low & with 33" wheels
By replacing them with 36" wheel sets you are basically raising the coupler up .01722" (equal to 1.5 scale inches)
dbduckBy replacing them with 36" wheel sets you are basically raising the coupler up .01722" (equal to 1.5 scale inches)
While that might be a workable solution I found using the stock wheels was not issue as my photos show. Again,its all in the building of the kit and straightening the warp frame,coupler box or weight. I even seen the floor warped.
Paul3 Folks,Save yourself some trouble and get the MicroMark coupler height gauge. https://www.micromark.com/Coupler-Gauge-for-HO-Standard-Gauge
My train mentor pulled this out over the weekend. I was wondering where he got it. The tool appears more accurate than anything else.
For fixing coupler height, why not use pliers and gently lift up the coupler? I recall reading that elsewhere. It depends on many factors about its effectiveness, but if you work gently, I doubt you can break off the coupler.
kasskabooseMy train mentor pulled this out over the weekend. I was wondering where he got it. The tool appears more accurate than anything else.
That is almost exaclty like the tool I made myself.
I wish I knew this one was available. Spending $11.00 is a better option than all the time I put into working on mine.
kasskabooseFor fixing coupler height, why not use pliers and gently lift up the coupler? I recall reading that elsewhere. It depends on many factors about its effectiveness, but if you work gently, I doubt you can break off the coupler.
That's what some did back in the 60s and it worked providing one didn't overbend the coupler where it stuck up.. I was among the first at the Columbus HO club to use a KD gauge and washers.. Of course this was before I noticed the warped frames,floors and weights.
kasskaboose,The major problem with bending the coupler is that if you do, the knuckle will be at a slight angle. When put under a load when coupled, it can cause the angled coupler to move in the direction of the bend. The result is a break-in-two even when the couplers are more-or-less at the correct height to each other.
It's far better to have flat parallel vertical surfaces for couplers instead of angled ones.Besides, with offset couplers from Kadee and some red or gray washers, most couplers can be adjusted easily enough. Where you run into problems are with engines; they can't be easily shimmed like a car.
Paul3Besides, with offset couplers from Kadee and some red or gray washers, most couplers can be adjusted easily enough.
Paul,I been using KD couplers since '68 and never found the need for those offset couplers even though in my early KD years I kept two packs on hand.. I finally gave them away after carrying them around in my toolbox for at least ten years.. I still use washers as needed on some of Athearn's RTR cars but,that's a rareity. The last car was a FMC covered hopper since it had a low coupler.
Brakie,Two days ago, I assembled a "New Old Stock" Athearn BB 40' boxcar custom painted by Branchline Trains (that's how old it is; they used to do that before they got into making new models).Now I've built possibly hundreds of Athearn cars over the past 30 years; as the Mech. Dept. Chairman at my club, I've maintained hundreds more. So when I built this one, I did all the usual tricks to get a straight and level car. I flattened the steel weight, smoothed the bottom of the floor, made sure the chassis is straight, etc. Yet, when I put it on the test track, one coupler was way too low. The other end was fine (one red washer), but the other end? Not only did I have to use a red washer, I had to whip out a Kadee #147 Underset coupler. Now it's perfect, but I have no idea why one end of one car is so low. The car sits level, the sill appears to be dead straight, the top of the coupler pad is up against the end sill of the car body...it's just weird. I'll have to look at it more closely when I have time, but for now, it's rolling revenue miles with an offset coupler 'til then.
Paul3Now it's perfect, but I have no idea why one end of one car is so low.
Yep, that meets my experience. Athearn cars can be all over the place for no apparent reason.
Paul3Yet, when I put it on the test track, one coupler was way too low. The other end was fine (one red washer), but the other end? Not only did I have to use a red washer, I had to whip out a Kadee #147 Underset coupler. Now it's perfect, but I have no idea why one end of one car is so low.
Paul,That's one of BB great mysteries that I cross several times and I just cut the fool coupler box off and used a KD 5 or 148 box on both ends.
Oddly enough I once fould a badly warp 50' gon body that I couldn't fix so, I turned into a removable scrap load. After that gon I started inspecting the kits before I bought them at the LHS.