Please vote! What do you like, RTR, Kits, Both?

[Anonymous]

CNJ831, From just under the poll results here is this Forum's statement on the information contained in the Forum's polls:

(Polls on Trains.com are not scientific and reflect only the opinions of the users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, the readers of our magazines, nor the public as a whole. Bottom line, our polls are meant for fun and to stimulate conversation amongst our forum users).

I agree with you and expected as much when I posted the poll; the results would be small and fairly insignificant to really mean much.

The manufacturer's which responded to my questions on RTR vs KITS (there were only three responses out of seven quarried) stated: kits will continue to be offered as long as they sell, see the future continuing with only offering RTR and wanting to provide kits, however, seeing kits not selling from the hobby shop's shelves as well as RTR. You will have to take my word as this being what they said, as I will not reveal whom said these things nor quote them directly! You certainly can quarry them on your own.

My perceptions of what the manufacturer's whom responded are saying is; kits will continue to be offered, if they sell, however, RTR stock moves faster!

What I see on the hobby shop shelves I visit, shows growth of RTR and decline of kits.

As of today, Jan. 12th, 2005, the results of this poll show greater interest in preferring kits and preferring kits & will also buy RTR 62%. while prefer RTR and preferring RTR & will buy kits 27%. No preference was only 11%. The largest percentage was prefer kits but will also buy RTR at 45%.

What do you take the results of this poll to mean? Now that it will be re-posted on the front page of the forum, more people may add responses. However, I would guess the percentages might stay close to the same.

[dave9999]

cnj831,
The disclaimer is still there... right at the end of the poll results, right where it has always been.
I don't think the results here, though given by model railroaders, could be used to speak for all
model railroaders. Dave

This post is for entertainment purposes only and does not reflect the opinion of all model
railroaders. [:)]

[Anonymous]

CNJ831, Yes, I am interested in the direction the hobby is heading. I have also emailed manufacturers and asked their opinions and asked everyone who would respond, to choose what they like.

Bergie's choice to close this coded-clandestine-subterfuge infested thread down, if it's out of line. Where it has gotten so, escapes me, however!

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DeSchane

CNJ831, What are you alluding too? Last time I checked the statistics on this poll, the total count was less than 70 people! To be of any significance as a poll, I would think thousands of respondents would be necessary.

DeSchane - My contention was because of the way you worded your original post and what I think most would take it to mean ("I am talking to manufacturers and asking for your help to determine the direction this hobby is headed in reference to HO Rolling Stock."). To me this wording implies the desire to use results of a poll here in hopes of demonstrating some particlar aspect of kits vs. RTR to the manfacturers. If not that, of what point is this poll rather than just a discussion? As I've pointed out in the past, any polls conducted here are meaningless because of the insignificant number of persons responding. And I still would like to see Bergie re-instate the poll/survey disclaimer this forum used to run. I think too many readers really do take what a minute sampling here may suggest as actual fact across the hobby.

Be that as it may, you and I are in essentially the same camp, in that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool kit and scratch builder. I am also of the opinion that the great major it long-time hobbyists are also very heavily kit oriented. Kits have never flown off the shelves at any time in the hobby's history. It has always been possible to pick up a given one at any time one desired months or even years after issue. That RTR should turnover rapidly nowadays only points to mentality of, "Buy it now because once the limited run it's gone, it's gone!" The method of selling by the manufacturers has changed, not the hobbyists.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

CNJ831, What are you alluding too? Last time I checked the statistics on this poll, the total count was less than 70 people! To be of any significance as a poll, I would think thousands of respondents would be necessary.

I take what the few manufacturers I have received communications with have said about RTR vs KITS to have far more weight, than what this small poll is showing! As I have said many, many times: What opinions you or I may have about what is happening in this hobby will have little bearing on the course the hobby will take! The manufacturer's will respond to the market, which is determined by the buyers of their products! If they don't, they will loose market share! It would be extremely naive of me to think I can influence any outcome here!

In fact my reasons for posting all of my posts on RTR vs KITS is my sadness for what I perceive as the loss of modeling in America and a need to commiserate with others whom might feel the same way with an attempt to understand the other side's point of view. I know that many of you disagree with me on my perceptions of this trend. So, what else is new?

[ClinchValleySD40]

If I see something I want/need, I buy it. Doesn't matter if it's kit or RTR.
No preference.

[CNJ831]

Sure wish Bergie would re-instate the disclaimer that used to run on these pages indicating that polls and surveys conducted here are for the entertainment of readers only and unlikely to be representative of, or statistically significant, regarding any question at hand...and would be surely invalid if you use the results in a discussion with manufacturers as to what modelers want!

CNJ831

[sebamat]

I like kits, but only as long as they are not too difficult and do not make necessary to 'work' on the pieces (filing etc) because I do not have the right tools, and you can no more do it on the living room desk but need to go to the basement.

The reason is both $$$ (kits are max 50% of a rtr!) and fun at building them.

With some p2000 and Blueprint kits I hit a level of difficulties that is already over my possibility, and ended up with damaged/bad looking cars.

As I had several bad experience with tank cars, I will probably buy them RTR next time.

sebastiano

[cisco1]

There was a time when all we had was kits. I still prefer them but if you factor in your time, the RTR stuff can be a real bargain.

[Anonymous]

If two items cost the same and one is RTR and the other a kit, then I'd go with the RTR. I'd prefer to spend my time doing other things as opposed to fiddling with fragile little peices. Atheran, MDC, Mckean, Walthers, and Accurail are kit I prefer.

[BRAKIE]

Right now I am on a RTR kick and don't want to build kits-not even a simple blue box kit..I've built enough Athearn,Bev Bel/Athearn and some MDC and AccuRail kits over the years that I am no longer interested in kits.I prefer to operate my trains now instead.

[Anonymous]

My modeling skills are still less than to be desired but I am improving. I like the idea of something that I built working more than just buying it. But on the other hand, i like to Just buy the damn one I want and run it also.

[ksax73]

I picked I prefer kits but will buy RTR because sometimes the product may not be as accurate as I want it to be.

Put it this way, kits make kitbashing allot easier, lol.

I might have to use that as a quote of mine!

[Anonymous]

KITS, kits, and more kits! Give me kits or give me death!

If it ain't a kit, it ain't worth, umm.....a spit, yeah, that's it![:D]

[AggroJones]

I very much have trouble with complex kits, example P2K. No matter how slow and carefully I move, I always end up braking fragile parts somehow. And I feel they are broken down into too many sub-assemblies. I prefer the simpler kits with large solid peices-- Athearn, Accurail. Less small parts, less frustration.

I like simple kits most of all, then RTR if the kit is too complicated.

[FThunder11]

When i build kits they turn out like CRAP, I like RTR

[camarokid]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DeSchane

What do you want?

I guess I do prefer the kits so I can do what I want with them.
Archie

[Anonymous]

I've been happy working with both, for satisfaction in the finished product, kits of course. But just being able to pull a car out of the box, put it on the track and couple it to a train is quite nice too.

Alvie.

[tomwatkins]

I strongly prefer kits. I enjoy building models, and find it a lot easier to modify or add details during the assembly process than after everything is together.
Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[novacoach]

I prefer kits - infact I bought afew Branchline Blue Print boxcars today and seek out kits from dealers when they still have them.

I like: -
A building stuff
B installing non-magnetic weights
C using KD#5s in their own boxes

I do also build some resin kits - hard work but satisfying

Chris

[Anonymous]

I definitely prefer kits. It's more time to spend working on the hobby. I don't know why well car kits seem to be so hard to find in kit form for HO. I'm having a nightmare trying to track down some TTX well car kits (articulated) so RTR maybe my last resort.

[jrbernier]

I love to put kits together. This gives me a chance to kitbash, detail, paint and letter a car exactly the way I want it. The problem is that a lot of the decals that have been available for years(I model the 50's) are no longer available. I buy RTR like the recent 'high end' cars and really like them. Also, some of the paint jobs are perfect and are schemes that I cannot get via the decal route anymore. I get 'sticker shock' looking at a lot of the high end RTR cars($26-40), but if I really want it; I usually find some kind of discounted deal on the car. A good example is the P2K 50' flat cars - the MSRP is $26, but M B Klein has a sale over the past few months and I picked up RTR flats for something like $12.99 each! I have stripped/repainted 3 of them, and re-decked them. Now I am working on 'loads'. I also picked up P2K 8,000 &10,000 gallon tanks cars. They really are time consumming to assemble, and I can devote my time to other 'projects'.

Jim Bernier

[Eriediamond]

I voted as not having a preference, but that is not exactly true as I don't care for the kits with more parts then the fullsize car that the kit is for has. I do envey you that have the patience and talent to assemble those type kits. I also don't mind buying used, as I do enjoy the challenge of doing repair work or bringing a car or loco back to life. Thanks, Ken

[Anonymous]

Fergie, I define a kit as not "Ready To Run". "Shake the Box" or wood scratch built are kits. Scratch building means you build the parts before you build the kit. You may build one part at a time and apply to the assembly or all the parts previous to assembly. However, we certainly can make defining what a kit is, complicated! We can also make defining what RTR is, complicated by saying we take apart, add details, weather, etc. For the purposes of this poll, lets say if pieces are assembled previous to use, it is a kit!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TEFFY

We vote on this topic every time we spend our money. The manufactures talk to each other and know what is selling so they're going to make the same thing and get in on the take. As evidenced by the hobby shop shelves the hobby is leaning toward RTR.

I agree with Bob [#ditto] I do prefer kits as I can modify them as I go along. But in some cases I'll get RTR when I think that the kit is more than my abilities will allow.

[Anonymous]

We vote on this topic every time we spend our money. The manufactures talk to each other and know what is selling so they're going to make the same thing and get in on the take. As evidenced by the hobby shop shelves the hobby is leaning toward RTR. I probably have 300 to 350 kits sitting in a spare bedroom, yet to be built. In my lifetime I'll not get around to making a dent in that number but it's nice to think about.

I still buy kits and RTR if one strikes my fancy.

Bob

[Anonymous]

I prefer the kits - cheaper, half the fun is building them, give a sense of achievement rather than just opening the box and putting the model on the track. I've also found some problems with RTR equipment, like the Athearn caboose on which all the wheelsets were out of gauge (ended up replacing them with some spares taken from old BB cars that have had metal wheels fitted - a great improvement!). I will buy RTR where there is no alternative, but the higher prices do restrict my buying and I invariably have to do some modifications, even if it's as simple as fitting Kadees in place of the factory couplers. Just my thoughts!

[Fergmiester]

How do you define kits? If it's Accurail or Athearn blue box then my layout is covered with them. To me a kit is wood/plastic/glue/wire/filing/primer/paint. Personally I do enjoy a good kit but find it time consuming.

Fergie

[fec153]

B.B. kits for me. I do not have the talent to put craftsman kits together. I have tried .
RTR are a bit to expensive . I go to the biannual shows and pickup what I want at low
prices or I do without. Heck, with 500 pieces of rolling stock, do I really NEED more?
Can't run them all at the same time.
Fumble-Fingers Phil. aka. Fla.Phil, Flip.