In setting up trains to run in a loop as part of my layout, a question occurred to me. Is there a convention as to the direction in which trains should run? Should they run clockwise? Or alternatively, should they run counterclockwise? Does it matter?
Should I occasionally reverse the direction so as not to place undue wear on the same outside wheels?
Gulf
Gulf OilShould they run clockwise? Or alternatively, should they run counterclockwise?
I've not seen that question asked before. Are you right handed or left handed?
My first two layouts were just ovals and it never occured to me to run anything but clockwise. Layouts after that had a reversing loop so I go both ways.
If I wear the wheels off one side of my trains, I'm going to ask for recognition from Model Railroader.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Welcome to the forum. Your first few posts are moderated, so there will be a delay in them appearing.
This has been asked here before. Nearly everyone runs their trains in both directions, but it's whatever you feel like.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Welcome to the forums GULF! I liked you better when you were B/A. Canadians may get that joke.
Yes, the question has been asked before and I think I was one of the askers so many years ago.
I run both ways as I have a balloon track and a turntable to swing things around. However, I do tend to run things anticlockwise for some reason and I have done that since Dad built me our first plywood Pacific.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Canada
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
For most (probably 99%+) trains, it makes no difference.
If you have Shay locmotives, run counter-clockwise!
I have one locomotive that does not like left turns, so it runs clockwise.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190If you have Shay locomotives, run counter-clockwise!
I swear I never saw this topic before and I never heard that about Shays. Do left turns bind the mechanism?
More that you can't see the fun side of a Shay if you run them the other way around.
Gulf OilIn setting up trains to run in a loop as part of my layout, a question occurred to me. Is there a convention as to the direction in which trains should run?
Welcome to the forums, Gulf!
I have a double mainline, with trains running both directions.
However, if you follow sports or horse racing, it's counterclockwise! For some reason, when I exercise, I walk the track counterclockwise, and so do most of the other people there. I don't know why.
Your first posts are moderated and may take a while to appear. I hope you will feel welcome here and continue to post.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
It doesn't matter, most run either direction, but all the prototype directional running situations I am familiar with, except for one, (where the railroad has two parallel routes and runs one in one direction and the other in the other direction), run the equivalent of "clockwise".
North on the westernmost line and south on the easternmost line. The exception runs east on the southern line and west on the northern line.
In all cases on the prototype its a matter of grades and connections that determine which way they run.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
BigDaddyI swear I never saw this topic before and I never heard that about Shays.
Shays have a good side and a bad side. You always want to run them so you can see the mechanism and all the associated monkey-motion.
Both. On my layout, clockwise is West, counter wise, East. Trains run both ways, even with busy single track mains.
Mike.
My You Tube
Come to think of it, I usually set the train to run clockwise around the loop. This is not a conscious decision, so I guess it just looks better to me. But I also like to run them backwards which is usually counter clockwise.
Paul
It's a good question, especially if a new modeler is considered the benefits and drawbacks of building the standard 4x8. While you can set up passing tracks that overcome the tendency toward a preferred direction. It's often easier to set up sidings and spurs off the oval to all be trailing point moves in one direction.
Which direction doesn't matter, just choose one and design to suit that basic rule. It can also be prototypical, as track being designed for significant flows of traffic will often be set up with. this same emphasis.
Runaround moves are interesting, but if you have to for practically every car then that can be limiting, YMMV.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Come to think of it, my layout has a long up and down and one way is slightly steeper than the other. Running CC is the easier climb, but only slightly. Both are under 2%.
Counter clock-wise .... it's a Nascar thing ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
mlehmanIt's often easier to set up sidings and spurs off the oval to all be trailing point moves in one direction.
Mike makes an interesting point. I'm working on a track plan for a 5' 4" x 12' HO oval layout without any capacity to reverse train direction. It just occurred to me that roughly half the spurs are set up in opposite directions. I'll have to go back and make sure that I can actually use all of the spurs without trapping the locomotives regardless of which way the trains are running. I'm not averse to facing point moves. I'll just have to make sure that I have the necessary run arounds.
Thanks Mike,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I just did a quick Google image search of tyco and Bachmann train sets. They almost all show the train going counter-clockwise on the box. Not all boxes had a curve that could be identified.
hon30critter I'll have to go back and make sure that I can actually use all of the spurs without trapping the locomotives regardless of which way the trains are running. I'm not averse to facing point moves. I'll just have to make sure that I have the necessary run arounds.
Thanks for your kind comments, Dave.
Sometimes you have to make compromises and making a small layout design so that it favors one direction is often a way to do that that's frequently overlooked. This is especially so if the runarounds are limited, as they often are on small layouts. Eevn if you have them, sometimes you have to circle the layout to use them, which tends to detract from the impression of going somewhere.
dehusman It doesn't matter, most run either direction, but all the prototype directional running situations I am familiar with, except for one, (where the railroad has two parallel routes and runs one in one direction and the other in the other direction), run the equivalent of "clockwise". North on the westernmost line and south on the easternmost line. The exception runs east on the southern line and west on the northern line. In all cases on the prototype its a matter of grades and connections that determine which way they run.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here?
In North America most double track has always been run "right hand rule", but there have been notable exceptions.
That would make the inner track of a double track oval clockwise and the outer track counter clockwise without regard for north, south, east or west.
And I do understand the modern idea of "two main tracks" rather than double track.
As for separate but parallel lines, geography would be a big factor, ruling grades, etc.
I'm an east coast double track modeler, everyhing is signaled for travel in both directions, but normal practice is to the right.
Sheldon
Another thought.
When I was a teen, I had a layout with two independent loops connected by a double crossover. The routes only appeared as double track for about 1/3 of their respective route around an L shaped layout built on two 5x9 platforms.
My normal operation was such that in the double track area, they ran "right hand rule", without regard for other considerations.
SeeYou190 For most (probably 99%+) trains, it makes no difference. If you have Shay locomotives, run counter-clockwise! I have one locomotive that does not like left turns, so it runs clockwise. -Kevin
If you have Shay locomotives, run counter-clockwise!
Simon
And, there's that occassional loco that seems to run better going one way or the other. I have an Athearn like that.
I also like to see the engineers side, so I might have a few more east bound, that west.
mbinsewi And, there's that occassional loco that seems to run better going one way or the other. I have an Athearn like that. I also like to see the engineers side, so I might have a few more east bound, that west. Mike.
This brings up another important point when building a layout. What is your directional perspective viewing the lzyout?
With a small continuous run like a 4x8, it does not matter much.
But on a larger layout, especially one designed for walk around control, it can matter.
All my recent layouts (last 25-30 years) have been continuous run walk around designs with hidden thru staging. I quickly realized it was much better if the viewing perspective was always the same.
So my previous layout, and the new one I am designing now, place the viewers/operators inside the loop, and always facing "north", making east to the right and west to the left.
This is especially helpful with my chosen DC Advanced Cab Control, but even with DCC I think it makes a layout much easier to understand and operate.
So east bound trains run clockwise on the track closest to you, and west bound trains run counter clockwise on the far or "north side" track.
Our final form family room holiday only layout when I was a kid was pretty much any which way. We added an outer edge all around to allow for a 22" radius loop to handle the Rivarossi Hudson and passenger cars, and the parking track for that train and another that ran around there was arranged such that the turnouts were easily accesible, which made pulling out and running that track clockwise, but that was the outer loop. The inner loop mostly ran counterclockwise, because that's how some operating accessories were set up, but for some trains, like the Old West train that parked in the Western town, it would run clockwise on the inner loop. Then there was an inner inner loop, 15" radius, for the trolley through the town. Parking track for that was arranged also for clockwise running.
The inner and outer loops were connected with crossovers, so a train could run on both. I ran them in either direction, not really caring as long as the engine was on front and the caboose on the back.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
My first layout, a 4'x8', had two reverse loops, so I could run trains in whatever direction I wanted.
My current layout has an option for continuous running (in either direction) but for normal use, it's set-up as a point-to-point, in both directions, although not at the same time.
Actually, there are five end-points, so it's a point-to-point-to-point-to-point-to-point, although still only two directions from which to choose....
....unless you take into account that there are two different free-lanced railroads involved, one an east-west line, the other north-south. So, four directions, making it much more interesting than clockwise or counter-clockwise.
Wayne
Hello All,
With DCC the directionality of trains is not as much an issue that it is with DC.
With DC the cabs have a "Forward" and a "Reverse" switch. These switches change the polarity of the DC.
On page 8 of The Complete Atlas Wiring Book; Atlas Publishing 2011, It reads:
"By controlling the polarity (+ and -) of the rails, you can control the direction of the locomotive. The National Model Railroad Association (NMRA), has set a standard that locomotives move forward when the positive rail is on the right.
'Direction of motion' in model railroading terminology, does not refer to the direction of the locomotive is facing since locomotives can be moved forward or backward on your layout. In the bottom two blocks (illustrations not included in post), the polarity on the rails has been reversed so the locomotive in these blocks moves to the left. A modeler may accidentally reverse the wires in the locomotive, causing opposite direction operation. This must be corrected immediately to prevent confusion."
This explanation assumes that only one locomotive will be pulling a string of cars or, if multiple powered locomotives are used, they are arranged in an "elephant" arrangement, head-to-tail.
With DCC The choice is yours as to which way "forward" is defined.
In DCC by changing CVs you can determine which way a locomotive runs; short or long hood forward and the type of consist- -"elephant", "nose-to-nose" or "tail-to-tail".
On my pike "forward" is clockwise due to the arrangements of the grades.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Hello All, With DCC the directionality of trains is not as much an issue that it is with DC. With DC the cabs have a "Forward" and a "Reverse" switch. These switches change the polarity of the DC. On page 8 of The Complete Atlas Wiring Book; Atlas Publishing 2011, It reads: "By controlling the polarity (+ and -) of the rails, you can control the direction of the locomotive. The National Model Railroad Association (NMRA), has set a standard that locomotives move forward when the positive rail is on the right. 'Direction of motion' in model railroading terminology, does not refer to the direction of the locomotive is facing since locomotives can be moved forward or backward on your layout. In the bottom two blocks, the polarity on the rails has been reversed so the locomotive in these blocks moves to the left. A modeler may accidentally reverse the wires in the locomotive, causing opposite direction operation. This must be corrected immediately to prevent confusion." This explanation assumes that only one locomotive will be pulling a string of cars or, if multiple powered locomotives are used, they are arranged in an "elephant" arrangement, head-to-tail. In DC to run a consist, either tail-to-tail or nose-to-nose, one (or more) of the locomotive's motor(s) running in the consist must be "reversed" so all move in the same direction. With DCC The choice is yours as to which way "forward" is defined. In DCC by changing CVs you can determine which way a locomotive runs; short or long hood forward and the type of consist- -"elephant", "nose-to-nose" or "tail-to-tail". On my pike "forward" is clockwise due to the arrangements of the grades. Hope this helps.
'Direction of motion' in model railroading terminology, does not refer to the direction of the locomotive is facing since locomotives can be moved forward or backward on your layout. In the bottom two blocks, the polarity on the rails has been reversed so the locomotive in these blocks moves to the left. A modeler may accidentally reverse the wires in the locomotive, causing opposite direction operation. This must be corrected immediately to prevent confusion."
In DC to run a consist, either tail-to-tail or nose-to-nose, one (or more) of the locomotive's motor(s) running in the consist must be "reversed" so all move in the same direction.
Obviously you use DCC and have no real DC experiance, so I will I form you that no wiring needs to be changed to run DC locomotives "back to back",
Forget about a loop of track for a minute and just imagine a 10' straight section of track in front of you hooked up to a DC power pack.
The wires from the power pack are connected to the track such that when the direct switch (which typically is not labeled forward/reverse) is slid to the right, the rail closest to you is positive.
Any properly wired DC locomotive you place on that track will move to your right, no matter which way the front of the loco is facing.
When you move the direction switch to the left, the far rail will be positive and all locos will move to the left, no matter which way they are facing.
The direction switches on my DC layout determine "east" or "west" movement, it does not matter which way the loco faces.
Sheldon is correct, so the only way that we DC operators can have a"cornfield meet" is by reversing the wiring on one (or more) of our locomotives.
I have worked on many pre-owned DC steam locomotives which were wired opposite to normal practice, eventually discovering that in most cases, the previous owner had disassembled them for some reason, but re-assembled them incorrectly, usually with the insulated drivers on the wrong side. Since it would have been easier to simply flip the tender trucks than to remove and replace the drivers correctly, that's what was usually done, along with a re-routed wire to the motor.
jjdamnitIn DC to run a consist, either tail-to-tail or nose-to-nose, one (or more) of the locomotive's motor(s) running in the consist must be "reversed" so all move in the same direction.
Nope!
Thank you Sheldon and Wayne.