mbinsewi Yea, we just ran out of ways to the answer the OP's question. Anything that has "run" in it, is fair game. Mike.
Yea, we just ran out of ways to the answer the OP's question. Anything that has "run" in it, is fair game.
Mike.
OK, as long as I have your permission Mike
When you give your wife a hug and your waffle stomper boot cleat catches on her nylon and when you walk away, ... Oops!
That really did happen you know
TF
rdagot it, thanks. ok, the run refers to the wiring, not a section of the track
As I stated in my first reply, fifth post from the top...and I'm not even a DCC guy.
Wayne
My You Tube
mbinsewi Mike, I was talking about all the different versions of Louie Louie being considered the "same song", even though in some instances they bear nearly no resemblance to one another. . Sheldon explained that Garth Brooks Beer Run is a completely different song. . -Kevin . SeeYou190 , but they are considered the same song. . I don't think so Kevin. The Garth Brooks and George Jones song is nothing like Todds original beerrun song. Go find them on YT and see for yourself. We've gone from wire runs to beer runs! Mike. PS. There, I've RUN this thread on RUNS into page 2.
SeeYou190 , but they are considered the same song. .
I don't think so Kevin. The Garth Brooks and George Jones song is nothing like Todds original beerrun song.
Go find them on YT and see for yourself.
We've gone from wire runs to beer runs!
PS. There, I've RUN this thread on RUNS into page 2.
.
riogrande5761That went sideways pretty fast
Living the dream.
SeeYou190, but they are considered the same song. .
That went sideways pretty fast.
I found a few good references with solid DCC bus info. Basically NCE's guide for HO recommended 14 AWG for runs up to 50 (leg from booster) and 12 AWG for longer runs up to 100 ft.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhile similar, they are actually different songs.
OK. I thought it might be like Louie Louie, where there are seriously drastic differences from some versions to others, but they are considered the same song.
-Kevin
Todd's one of my favorites. Without buying his music, I only hear him on Sirius XM Outlaw Country. He's also made a few appearances on the Bob and Tom radio show,
He does, sometimes, provoke some controversy in his music, but don't they all?
I've only heard his version of his song.
I guess we've covered the OP's question on what is a "run". I thought it was pretty obvious.
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL I love that guy, and that song, and I don't even drink beer....... . That is much better than Garth Brooks' version. . -Kevin .
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I love that guy, and that song, and I don't even drink beer.......
That is much better than Garth Brooks' version.
While similar, they are actually different songs.
Todd snider wrote his song, the Garth song was written by Kent Blazy, Kim Williams, Amanda Williams, Keith Anderson, and George Ducas.
Sheldon
riogrande5761 selector In the context you cited, they're worried that, depending on the type of wire used as a bus, you'll experience X voltage loss the further it must travel down that wire. For 14 gauge wall wire in home construction, you'd not have to worry for at least 20 feet, and even then it would be minimal. AWG 14 home (rated for 15 amp) wire surely is strung way more than 20 feet in most homes. What would be a reasonable maximum run of 14 AWG if used on a model RR DCC bus?
selector In the context you cited, they're worried that, depending on the type of wire used as a bus, you'll experience X voltage loss the further it must travel down that wire. For 14 gauge wall wire in home construction, you'd not have to worry for at least 20 feet, and even then it would be minimal.
AWG 14 home (rated for 15 amp) wire surely is strung way more than 20 feet in most homes. What would be a reasonable maximum run of 14 AWG if used on a model RR DCC bus?
It depends on your tolerance for voltage drop over distance with a nominal voltage of 15, 5 amps (in my case), and with a specific distance in mind, single phase, race run, copper wire. I asked the calculator I used for no more than a 4% drop in voltage over 20 feet, and the result was 14 gauge.
http://wiresizecalculator.net/
ATLANTIC CENTRALI love that guy, and that song, and I don't even drink beer.......
got it, thanks. ok, the run refers to the wiring, not a section of the track
I used 14ga. on my bus, and I even twisted the black and red together to make it easier to handle. I haven't had any problems, but I have a small layout, about 50' main line run, "L" shaped dog bone.
Power supply is close to the middle, I did it in blocks, to use DC to start with, Didn't use common rail, isolated each rail at blocks.
Made it easy to go to DCC. Just unhook the DC pack and hook up the DCC power.
I think I used 20 or 22 ga for feeders.
There are voltage dropoff charts online. I would think you would have to go a very, very long way to be worried about using 14g wire.
I only used 12g because I got it for a song. I went to the industrial electric shop and asked for 14g and the guy asked if I could use 12g instead for about a tenth of the price. He gave me the wire off two of those 5' spools just so he could hang new spools for the next days rush. I think I ended up with about 600' as he just peeled off what was left. Timing is everything.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
mbinsewi OR, when someone needs to make a: "B double e double r un, beerrun" as sung by Todd Snider: Mike.
OR, when someone needs to make a: "B double e double r un, beerrun" as sung by Todd Snider:
I love that guy, and that song, and I don't even drink beer........
Sure. What would others suggest.
riogrande5761What would be a reasonable maximum run of 14 AWG if used on a model RR DCC bus?
For Model Railroad bus and Speaker Wire, I consider #10 the minimum wire size.
selectorIn the context you cited, they're worried that, depending on the type of wire used as a bus, you'll experience X voltage loss the further it must travel down that wire. For 14 gauge wall wire in home construction, you'd not have to worry for at least 20 feet, and even then it would be minimal.
The power comes from my DCC power source to this terminal strip. From there, there are six runs that go down this 18' bench like fingers.
Two go down each side to power the mainline tracks, one powers the yard and the other powers the turntable.
I just attach the last track feeder to the end of the buss wire, then I don't have to have a discussion on what to do with the end of the buss wire.
It is overkill on the wiring but I had 600' of 12g wire so why not.
Run = Distance (or length)
Run of trackage, run of bus wires, run of sub-bus...
In the context you cited, they're worried that, depending on the type of wire used as a bus, you'll experience X voltage loss the further it must travel down that wire. For 14 gauge wall wire in home construction, you'd not have to worry for at least 20 feet, and even then it would be minimal.
Thanks Mike for keeping me in check
I don't think I'll need a beer run till Friday
Wednesday would be nice but I got to wxxk the rest of the week
A run is considered when it's your turn to get the mail
It's just too darn cold out in Minnesota
When it's my turn to get mail I run out and run back quick
I hate when it's my turn to get the mail
rda"The length of the run required is also a key factor in determining a proper bus size. Shorter runs will experience less voltage drop and can employ smaller wire
As others have pointed out, the "run" is the distance from the power supply to the farthest track. Your power supply can be in the middle, with equal "runs" in each direction, or it can be on one end or the other, making the "run" longer, and wire size adjustments may have to be made, as the article you refferenced points out.
rda:
To my way of thinking:
You could have your power supply centred on a wall. Two wires going to the left for 25' would be a run. Two wires going to the right for 40' would be a different run. Two more wires going six feet to the right and then 19' down a peninsula would be a third run.
As noted there are recommended practices for various lengths of run. Circuit breaker for each run!
If I am wrong, someone will gladly correct me.
Dave
rdaok, here's an example of article I was looking at: "The length of the run required is also a key factor in determining a proper bus size. Shorter runs will experience less voltage drop and can employ smaller wire. Generally, No. 12 to No. 14 wire is ideal for bus wiring in most scales. For feeders, No. 18 to No. 24 can be used. Since the feeders must be attached to the rails directly, size is a factor in smaller scales." So, again, what is determined as a 'run'?
This is something one would write about if discussing DCC, so we will go with that.
A run is length of the bus that follows your track underneath the layout. That could be a tiny dioramma or it could Howard Zane's 2800 square foot layout. The bus can also have a branch, called a sub bus that would feed a yard.
1/3 down the page is a chart based on scale and distance
https://dccwiki.com/Wire_Sizes_and_Spacing
As I hinted at earlier, voltage can drop off with the further it travels down the bus. Hence larger gauge wire is needed. Solid wire especially 12 ga is cumbersome to bend. For track feeders, you want solid wire and if it is a short run to the bus, 22 or 20 ga is adequate.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
rda ok, here's an example of article I was looking at: "The length of the run required is also a key factor in determining a proper bus size. Shorter runs will experience less voltage drop and can employ smaller wire. Generally, No. 12 to No. 14 wire is ideal for bus wiring in most scales. For feeders, No. 18 to No. 24 can be used. Since the feeders must be attached to the rails directly, size is a factor in smaller scales." So, again, what is determined as a 'run'?
ok, here's an example of article I was looking at:
"The length of the run required is also a key factor in determining a proper bus size. Shorter runs will experience less voltage drop and can employ smaller wire. Generally, No. 12 to No. 14 wire is ideal for bus wiring in most scales. For feeders, No. 18 to No. 24 can be used. Since the feeders must be attached to the rails directly, size is a factor in smaller scales."
So, again, what is determined as a 'run'?
This is being made more complicated than it needs to be.
Assume that you have a point A and point B on the railroad. The run is simply the length of a wire or bundle of wires to get from point A to point B.
From that quote it sounds like the run is the total length of the layout from one point (beginning) to the other (end of run).