As the title says post things you wish you knew before you made your first layout. As someone who is building their first I'm very interested in hearing (id imagine other first timers are too) what you would have done differently and just overall what you wish you had known going into it!
regards,
Chris
Hello All,
From the "The Wizard of Monterey":
"A model railroad should probably start with a concept. Why? Because much knowledge about railroading, experience in model railroading, and thought are required before a proper concept for a model railroad can be formed. These requirements are seldom possible on a first pike. Mine was no exception."- -John Allen; Gorre & Daphetid Railroad.
For me it was starting in DC and then converting to DCC.
Had I gone DCC right off the bat I would have saved enough money by not buying wire, DC block controllers and cabs to afford a DCC system.
The other epiphany was, even though my pike sits on the spare bed in the computer/spare bed/railroad room, not using open grid benchwork and trying to use a sheet of 5/8-inch MFD instead.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
It is better to have one or two good locomotives and a few well made train cars that do not derail than a whole heaping pile of junk.
.
Cheap turnouts will cause derailments.
There is no such thing as too heavy a wire for your main power bus.
You do not need to do what anyone else is doing in order to have fun. You need to find your own way of enjoying trains.
If it is good enough for you, it is good enough.
Your first layout is destined for the landfill, so learn as much as you can knowing that there are no consequences. Your second layout will be much better.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Crob As the title says post things you wish you knew before you made your first layout. As someone who is building their first I'm very interested in hearing (id imagine other first timers are too) what you would have done differently and just overall what you wish you had known going into it! regards, Chris
As for me, everything I know now, 15 years later, I did not know then. That is probably true for most of us. So, what would likely be most helpful for you is to know what someone wished he would have done differently with the first build.
As for me, it would have been to build a level surface with bullet proof trackwork. That would have prevented derailments and unintended uncouplings. It took me years to undo the damage caused by humps and valleys in my crooked trackwork.
Take your time and do it right the first time.
Rich
Alton Junction
Even though I'm still new at this, I'll echo what some others have said:
Trackwork should be as perfect as you can get it. It's better to tear a mistake out and make it perfect right away, rather than derail and uncouple so many times you're ready to throw things.
Another thing is to learn from reading this forum. I continue to learn things that make my life easier.
York1 John
Crob As the title says post things you wish you knew before you made your first layout.
As the title says post things you wish you knew before you made your first layout.
Here is what I wish I'd known: that the sorts of track plans that are fun for toy trains are less fun, and maybe even no fun at all, for scale model trains with their slower speeds and better couplers.
The track that is supplied with the average "train set" feeds into this. You think oval and only oval.
For my Lionel layout (temporary - set up on the living room floor) I had a an oval maybe with a figure 8 within it, or the oval was extended using switches to have an alternative at one end for a larger oval. There were no sidings because Lionel didn't do so well with sidings although I surely could have done more with my Lionel for somewhat realistic operations than I did.
So for my first HO layout I had an oval. Then I used switches at one end of the oval to create an alternative route that was simply a larger version of the same oval. When I wanted to "improve" my track plan I put an 18" radius oval inside a 22" radius oval.
Boring.
And I was using precious space on my 4x8 (and using precious turnouts that cost real money) and leaving little meaningful space for actual railroad operations: picking up or dropping off freight cars at industries. Of course then I used horn hook couplers which were even more of a challenge to open than the Lionel couplers.
In fact the very notion of a 4x8 rectangle for the layout was wasting space on curves even though my trains, even back then, could have gone nice and slow and switched industries here and there on a layout using the same plywood for a 2x16 or an L shaped layout.
Because my track plan was basically copied/borrowed from my toy train days, I just ran a train around and around just like a toy train. Problem is that what captivated me at age 6 got a bit stale by age 10 or 11. I wanted something more but wasn't smart enough to know what it was. I saw the point to point track plans in Model Railroader magazine but was so fixated on ovals that to me they made no sense. I was reading but not understanding the articles about those linear track plans.
Sure there was a host of stuff I could have done better with track laying and wiring but that's all learn by doing stuff. I wasn't learning from my ovals, so I did them over and over or did them in different ways out of a sort of pathetic desperation.
Dave Nelson
I had wanted to do something a little different with my new layout and thought foam and spline would be interesting to try. For the most part, I am delighted with the way it turned out, although when I started on this forum 14 years ago I received some nasty comments from a few people about using foam (most of those guys are dead now)
In the photo you see the spline butts up to the foam and the track is either on cork on foam or just on the spline. The change I would make is I would not have the mainline on foam, I would have continued to run the spline for the mainline everywhere. As far as siding, spurs etc. track on cork on foam or track directly on foam is great. It is a little to rock and rolly on the foam for my liking for the mainline though, it is not bad enough to change out to spline or plywood but is not perfect.
The difference in how solid the spline is compared to the foam shows up well when I push a camera around the layout. I do like spline much better than plywood though, that was the biggest discovery I made trying something new.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
SeeYou190It is better to have one or two good locomotives and a few well made train cars that do not derail than a whole heaping pile of junk.
Totally agree with this one. Whenever someone brings up purchasing a train "set" for their first go-around at MRRing, I always encourage them to first consider purchasing a good-quality locomotive (e.g. a Stewart, Kato, or Proto 2000), rolling stock, track, and power pack separately instead of the set. Better to spend a little more money on quality than to be constantly frustrated because your train only runs so-so, at best. For some novices - this will make for an early and quick exit from the hobby.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
There are those curtains again!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 There are those curtains again!
Well, you don't think I'm gonna take them down now do ya?
Keep watching........someday!........
What I would have done differently-
I should have made the first layout (4x8) a double track oval (instead of a twice around). It's easier to run 2 trains that way. I should have put in some industrial spurs instead of a 3 track yard and turntable.
What I had wished I had known going in -
What tools I needed to start with.
But I agree that your first layout is a learning experience. It's where you start to learn what interests you.
My second layout was very different from my first. It was a 6x6 1/2 ft with center cockpit. I really loved that layout and if I had very limited space it's the one I would build today.
Good luck with your first layout.
Paul
Nothing. It was my first layout, my first train set, with addition track to make an oval on a 4'x8' piece of plywood, and that additional track came a few sections at a time.
I didn't use forums, there wasn't any internet, only the pictures that inspired me from what couple of magazines I could get. We're talking about 1965?
It was all sectional track, a simple transformer that hooked up to the track in one spot.
I made hills and land forms from paper mache, learned in art classes in school.
So to me, your question is irrevelant. It was all new.
That's a question for "todays" model railroad builder, not to those that tried to invent everything they needed. And to those that did all of this before me, were the authors of the articles I read, and the black and white photos I looked at, that were the source of the inspiration.
Those few magazines I could get, usually for Christmas, or maybe a birthday, were my inspiration, along with the articles.
No body in my family was interested, my step dad, the tennant farmer, thought it was all a waste of money.
And eventually he won. Model railroading didn't get back into my life until I built a 4'x8' layout, starting from a trainset, with my 5 yr.old. son, in 1988.
The good news, it's still flurishes today. Not with my son, he's moved on to other interest, but with me, It's still there.
Mike.
My You Tube
Staging.
This is typically not a first-time thing. You need to consider and plan for staging. Yes, it will complicate your plans, and it takes up space you probably don't want to surrender for your first layout. Think about it for the second, or the third, but never forget it. Sooner or later, it will become a priority, and by that time you will understand.
I also would recommend planning what you buy. Your freight cars and locomotives, your structures and track, should all be directed in the same way. If you are building a B&M railway, don't buy a Rio Grande locomotive, or a string of Duluth and Iron Range hoppers. Cool, yes, but they will wind up in a box.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasleyThis is typically not a first-time thing. You need to consider and plan for staging.
I'll second the need for plenty of staging. I've got two staging areas, one for freight and one for passenger trains but I could always use more.
Another consideration I would make if I were to "do it all over again" would be to plan ahead for easier access. I can reach those curves buried deep in the corners but it requires me to crawl under the layout and "pop-up" in a small access area. Invariably, Murphy says this is where locomotives will derail or stall. Murphy is right.
Good Luck, Ed
Based on the experience that my old club has had with the layout that I designed, I would have made two major changes:
The first would be to avoid narrow aisles where people have to get past each other on a regular basis. The narrowest aisle is between the main yard and the end of the peninsula. It is right where the Yard Master has to stand to operate the yard, and people are constantly squeezing past him to keep up with their trains as they go from one side of the peninsula to the other. The peninsula could have easily been 18" shorter.
The second would be to design the sidings first and then connect them with the mainline. I designed the mainline first with relatively wide curves and long runs, but that left too little space for decent sized sidings and spurs. Most of the spurs will only hold a few cars which has turned out to be frustrating for the guys who would like to run long trains. There are no spots that could handle a 20 car unit train except in the main yard and staging.
The layout is 20' x 25' with minimum 32" radii.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
gmpullman MisterBeasley This is typically not a first-time thing. You need to consider and plan for staging. I'll second the need for plenty of staging. I've got two staging areas, one for freight and one for passenger trains but I could always use more.
MisterBeasley This is typically not a first-time thing. You need to consider and plan for staging.
Staging requires a lot of space, and it is difficult to determine where to place staging on the layout and how much space to allocate for staging.
The problem, as I see it, is that a newbie will have no experience with how any layout will operate, let alone his own first layout. With time comes experience, and then the need for staging becomes obvious. So, I don't think a newbie should stress over the need for staging on his first layout.
I wish I knew something!
Looking back 40 years ago I really didn't know much at all. i purchased the John Allen book by Lynn Wescott and I was off and running.
After all, how hard could this be?
I had those old $25 lifelike locos that were either stopped or going 90mph. Bought a bunch of flex track and cork and nailed it all down on a 6 x 10 cookie cut layout With unknown grades (probably 4-6%). Some things (building lights and some atlas turnouts with those slide switches) actually worked! In RARE circumstancs a 3 or 4 car train actually made it around the loop.
50% of the scenery was done before track was laid. Track bus? What's THAT.
About a year later I demolished it.
I decided to learn how to build a model railroad.
Gary
In my real life, I do consulting work so planning is pretty much in my blood. My first layouts were not bad from a track design perspective. But I did regret some decisions: My second layout was set in the winter (it was meant to be under a Chrismas tree), and that was not easy. The foam scenery was pretty good, but I found it really hard to do a convincing snow scene, especially the snow on the rooftops and rolling stock.
I actually learned more about what to NOT do from what I have seen at our club. Things to avoid like scenery with two much depth, long slopes with curves when running steam, tunnels you can't access easily, fragile buildings in the foreground, and mainlines that go on a curve from a switch (instead of in a straight line). My big thing is keeping a direct access to all trackage, and keeping things removable to the extent possible.
But the nice thing about our hobby is that there are very few things that cannot be fixed later. It may require a bit of work, but things are rarely non-fixable. And one can always start over...
Simon
PS: I don't regret buying cheap rolling stock - it's great stuff to learn how to paint, decal and weather cars and engines without the fear of ruining something expensive. I've also re-utilized a lot of components from my old rolling stock for kitbashing purposes.
Really enjoying this topic folks.
I'm currently working on my first adult layout. It is a 5x9, that is designed for running in loops with my young son. However, I'm also actively planning for expansion (the short end is against a wall that could acommodate a fairly long run) and also building it in halves that can be fairly easily dismantled and sold.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
I would have avoided 18" and 22" radius track completely and gone immediately to 26" radius or larger.
I would have saved my money and bought the locos I really really wanted to have rather than going with much less expensive locos, and I would have horse traded trains less, and saved money there.
It's taken me a long time to be able to know what engines I really want to own versus those I just do not need at any price.
John
Fantastic topic! I echo what others said about the 1st layout providing a lot of lessons learned for the next one! Very true.
Compared to the 1st layout, the 2nd is much more realistic. Below is what I wished to have learned on the 1st layout that I applied to the 2nd (current):
1. More interchanges.
2. Depicts part of a real design in VA
3. Has more realistic cars/industries found in Southern VA.
4. Uses DCC
5. More planning shown
6. Larger curves
kasskaboose Larger curves
I was just about to start building my spline and lay some other roadbed when I found out that brass needed at least a 30" radius to operate. I had planned on 28"r so had to do a little rework on the plan. I am glad I caught that one and managed to get the radius up to the 34" range. If there ever is a next layout I think 40"r will be my minimum as 34"r still seems a little tight.
I started model railroading at the age of 7, but built my first layout 4 years later. Little did I know then, but it was a fascinating journey, navigating through treacherous waters of making grave mistakes to the final completion. Looking back on those days 53 years ago, I wonder where I found the tenacity to continue!
My first layout (and quite a few others which followed) where more or less simple ovals of either single or double track lines, a few sidings and passing sidings, embedded into sometimes rather crude and in later years mor sophisticated and realistic scenery. Most of the layouts become quite boring to operate as they did not include any staging facility. Even today, the importance of having a staging yard is often underestimated, so my advice to any novice is to include staging, either integrated into the layout or as a (maybe detachable) addition.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Tinplate ToddlerLooking back to those days 53 years ago, I wonder where I found the tenacity to continue!
I like the challenge of constantly having that MRR gauntlet thrown down at my feet.
BATMAN I found out that brass needed at least a 30" radius to operate.
All my brass locomotives will run on 24 inch radius. You just need to be careful what you buy. Probably 4-8-4s are a bad idea for the twenty-fours.
SeeYou190 BATMAN I found out that brass needed at least a 30" radius to operate. . All my brass locomotives will run on 24 inch radius. You just need to be careful what you buy. Probably 4-8-4s are a bad idea for the twenty-fours. . -Kevin .
Ya, I was looking forward to getting a brass C.P. 2-10-4 Selkirk and a Mikado and it has yet to happen. There were some good threads on this forum when I asked the question about brass and radiuses thirteen years ago, I learned a lot.
Tom White and others had a lot of knowledge to share and I consider myself lucky to have found this joint as it saved me some real aggravation I'm sure.
My layout has 22" curves, and it will handle Mikados, including a Samhongsa Powerhouse. My Bowser 4-8-4 will handle the curves no problem. It really helps if you keep your track level both ways to avoid derailments... But I won't push my luck and try a Selkirk!
That i shoud have not bought EZ track and used flex track instead. Those EX track turnouts are not the best among ather things.
On my first ISL I wish I didn't use Atlas "Snap" switches and snap track.. The layout operated quite well but, there was no track flow like you can get using flex track. Atlas #4 switch would have been better.
Still for a 12 year old's first layout I was pleased.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Terry