In my part of the world (Charleston SC. area) our Hobbytown USA shut down recently. I noticed it in the last year it was close to dying off. The model railroad section was first to go except for Lionel stuff, which I think was overstock, then the paints and styrene stuff dwindled away and finally the big sale. There is however a small LHS out in the country that deals with RC planes and railroading items. The store is opened 3 days a week and I don't think alot of people know about it. The store is a house that was gutted and turned into the store. The checkout counter is where the kitchen was, the store is located in a secluded area and I had a hard time finding it the first time.
Our local economy is booming. Our local news reported that aboit 24 people a day are moving into our area and alot coming from the North. There are many LHS's in the north and I was told years ago PA. had the most Model Railroad Hobby stores. With that said, I would think our area would have numerous LHS's all over the place but that is not the case. We have 2 Hobby Lobbys and the other craft stores in the area.
According to "IBIS World" the hobby industry had a growth rate of 1.2% from 2014 - 2019 making it a $20.2 billion industry. These stats included Hobby Lobby and crafts stores.
And one more thing that does not make sense. Our annual Train Show is doing well according to the vendors I talked to and we have a Model Railroad club that is open to the public 4 days a week and they are doing ok and yet, no hobby shops. To me that would be like no surf board shops in Honolulu.
I feel your pain and can only point out that this has been the subject of much discussion and lamenting on these Forums. I feel fortunate that we still have full train stores and hobby shops with train departments to choose from here in Milwaukee, and not just because Walthers is here and has a retail showroom (which I go to). But things could change fast, and we've lost some great train shops.
I play a musical instrument. When I was in high school there were probably five big stores in the Milwaukee area that were in the sole business of selling sheet music. All are gone now. Yet people still play instruments and not every piece of music is a free download. It's all mail order now, except for a small amount of music sold at stores that sell band and orchestra instruments and guitars (and those numbers are way down too). Record stores are largely a thing of the past. A local book store sells some CDs but book stores are nearly a thing of the past. Go down the list. Shoe stores, art supply stores .... formerly so plentiful. Yet people still wear shoes, still make art. So the demise of a brick and mortar hobby shop does not = the end of demand for the products it sold. It is just a new world of retail.
I have little need or reason to go to a Hobby Lobby or Hobbytown USA for supplies, but I will say that now and then you find yourself short of paint or strip wood or Xacto knives or Dremel cutting discs and it can be handy to have a "generic" hobby or craft shop nearby. But no such shop could survive off of my kind of patronage.
Dave Nelson
None of this surprises me. What economic forecasters and statistics seem to support, doesn't have much bearing on the success of a LHS.
Sure, train show vendors say things are good, because people maybe buying what's availiable at the show, or going to the vendors web site to purchase what isn't.
No one LHS can possibly have everything on the shelves that buyers want.
The beginning of the same old rehash, all over again.
Mike.
My You Tube
With model railroading, the LHS is having trouble adapting to changes in the hobby. The trend toward prototype specificity is at the root of much of this.
People come in wanting, not just a boxcar for a particular road, but a model of a particular car, on a carbody that matches the prototype with all the relevant details, AND with a specific paint scheme that matches those years in service. It's a far cry from Irv Athearn painting that product from the same boxcar mold in a couple of dozen different variants, few if any that actually match the pics you find.
In other words, it takes many more SKUs to satisfy your customers. Which makes a larger inventory of pricier models. It's hard for the LHS to keep up, although some who pay particular attention to stocking the items its customers want do well. There are fewer and fewer shops that fall in that niche to fill the gap between those shops and the mail-order/internet giants, who can afford to stock everything available.
I am not criticizing this trend. It's improved the hobby in many ways. People do want more specialized gear for good reasons. I'm even more extreme, being a narrowgauger, so I need stuff in a different gauge and for very specific prototypes. But it does explain a lot about why model railroading brick-and-mortar retail is facing a crisis.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mbinsewi None of this surprises me. What economic forecasters and statistics seem to support, doesn't have much bearing on the success of a LHS. Sure, train show vendors say things are good, because people maybe buying what's availiable at the show, or going to the vendors web site to purchase what isn't. No one LHS can possibly have everything on the shelves that buyers want. The beginning of the same old rehash, all over again. Mike.
Yes. Heck, northern Virginia has a lot of wealth and expensive house, BMW's and Mercedes every where you look. Hobby shops? Not much and what little there is rarely has anything on the shelves for me.
Times are a changin, and so is the way we do commerce. It isn't just hobby shops but other brick and mortar stores that are losing business to online shopping. Adapt or disappear.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Hobby shops cater to a very picky clientele. They want very specific models and items, or they leave empty handed.
Other stores face the same issue, internet shops can have a much bigger selection to choose from, with less "overhead" expenses, along with having access to many more customers than any single "brick" location ever can.
Its not just hobby stores that are closing retail locations. Appliances, clothing, furniture, grocery, car dealerships, even places like Lowe’s and HDepot are struggling to keep locations profitable and open.
Internet shopping is great for selection and pricing, but very bad for keeping brick retail locations profitable.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
ricktrains4824 Hobby shops cater to a very picky clientele. They want very specific models and items, or they leave empty handed.
The few shops in my area mostly carry low quality "trainset" level trains and accessories so anyone who's more into trains, who's passion is trains, isn't going to find much there. I suppose it's considered "safe" merchandise to carry, but no good to many hobbyists, only beginners really.
But it's also true that those who are much deeper into the hobby have usually very specific tastes, such as particular RR or trains from a certain time period.
Consider the Springfield show announcements. ScaleTrains announced articulated well cars for early double stack trains and one guy commented how he was disappointed with the announcement - that he was hoping for another engine announcement. But even if it was, it probably would be the right engine. *sigh*
Its not just hobby stores that are closing retail locations. Appliances, clothing, furniture, grocery, car dealerships, even places like Lowe’s and HDepot are struggling to keep locations profitable and open. Internet shopping is great for selection and pricing, but very bad for keeping brick retail locations profitable.
^ This!
I know we've been through this all, but what else do we have to talk about? The weather? Politics?
In the 19th Century, most little towns had a general store -- food, clothing, and hardware.
Then a grocery store came to town. The general store evolved into clothing or hardware.
Then JCPenneys, Montgomery Wards, and Sears came in. People fretted because the big guys were shutting out the mom and pop stores. If the big store didn't have it, you could get it in a short time through their catalog services.
Then suburban malls came in. The "downtown" stores closed and main streets changed to service offices.
Wallmart and Target became the new "general" stores, with pharmacies, groceries, clothing, and hardware.
Now the malls are being forced out by online ordering. We have new businesses springing up all over the net.
Everything changes.
I miss the old local hobby shop, but I really like being able to order exactly what I want, and having it delivered to my door in three days.
It's kind of strange to imagine what will be next.
York1 John
Games Workshop has the model that works in today's hobby environment.
.
They make an entire "stand alone" wargaming hobby line. Rules, figures, paints, supplies, and everything else you need can be had from Games Workshop.
The company owns the retail stores, and puts items in many full line hobby shops. It treats the retail stores as recruitment centers to get hobbiests involved and invested as quickly as possible.
Then... when they go their version of "full prototype", and want to model a specific Chaos army of Khorne from the second incursion, they can get all the custom resin parts, spikey bits, and fiddly-what-nots from the Games Workshop online store to make their "historically" accurate army.
Walthers is in a position to do something similar in model railroading.
How many one man 600 square foot shops would they need to open as recruitment centers to pump new blood into this hobby of ours?
The successful modern business model is out there.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
York1I know we've been through this all, but what else do we have to talk about? The weather? Politics?
This being a train forum, Weather and Politics are off topic right? Train shops closing down is related to trains. Just sayin....
The closing of the LHS is a regular feature here don't you know?
riogrande5761This being a train forum, Weather and Politics are off topic right? Train shops closing down is related to trains. Just sayin....
Yup! That's why I didn't mention that it is snowy and icy outside, and that ... wait, I won't say anything more!
riogrande5761Weather and Politics are off topic right?
That is correct, so I won't mention how beautiful it is outside.
All right! That's it!
I'm going to petition Kalmbach that all discussions of Florida weather are forbidden from November through April.
York1All right! That's it! I'm going to petition Kalmbach that all discussions of Florida weather are forbidden from November through April.
I understand. I will not talk about it any more.
Instead, I will just post a picture looking down my street today.
riogrande5761ScaleTrains announced articulated well cars for early double stack trains and one guy commented how he was disappointed with the announcement - that he was hoping for another engine announcement
Russell
csxns riogrande5761 ScaleTrains announced articulated well cars for early double stack trains and one guy commented how he was disappointed with the announcement - that he was hoping for another engine announcement Think i just read that at the Atlas Rescue.
riogrande5761 ScaleTrains announced articulated well cars for early double stack trains and one guy commented how he was disappointed with the announcement - that he was hoping for another engine announcement
Think i just read that at the Atlas Rescue.
Could be.
I seen it too. Going by a few of the last post, about weather and such, I had to quickly go back to top, thought we stumbled into the diner!
Hopefully, another LHS thread comes to a quiet end.
The real reason all these stores are closing is not what you think. These stores can not hope to compeat with the selection of things online. How can any hobby store even come close to the selection online. Even my go to online hobby store dosn't sell everything I need. I needed powdered tempra recently and even though Licks carries it online, a very large one of their stores did not have it on the floor.
I'm surprised my LHS is still in business. It takes up the basement of a somewhat derilict strip mall, and has a lot of NOS. Never a ton of people there, and some stuff has probably been sitting on the shelves for over 30 years. When something runs out, it isn't restocked unless a specific request is made, and then I need to go back again to get it. They do trains, cars, ships, and planes I think. Another hobby shop in the area has broadened to games, toys, and other kids items as well as hobby trains, r/c, gundam, and the like, and they usually have a decent crowd there. I do pretty niche modeling as well, but I frequent these stores for general supplies such as trucks, couplers, paint, styrene, and detail parts. I'd much rather go to a store and buy items as I need them than pay shipping, especially if I can't get everything online from one place. Online shopping would be perfect if shipping was free, but alas that usually isn't the case.
-Peter. Mantua collector, 3D printing enthusiast, Korail modeler.
Hobbytown seems to be a different animal from the regular all train store. I suspect most make a lot more money off R/C and other things such as gaming/ toys models etc. Most of the ones I have been in around the place don't have a very deep selection of trains. The exception I saw was the north Indianapolis location. Used to go in there when we lived nearby and it had a huge selection. They moved a little over two years ago and I was in the location over thanksgiving when we were in the area visiting family. Sad- wow empty hooks and the selection was a fraction of what it used to be. You can't sell out of an empty truck.......
drgwcsHobbytown seems to be a different animal from the regular all train store. I suspect most make a lot more money off R/C and other things such as gaming/ toys models etc. Most of the ones I have been in around the place don't have a very deep selection of trains.
My experience is the same. One Hobbytown recently moved to a new location, smaller, and out of the way.
The other Hobbytown is much larger, and it is usually busy. Its train supplies are very sparse, but it seems to do well with the board gaming people. Half of the store is set up with tables and chairs for gaming nights. They have found a way to survive in a difficult marketing time.
As Dave N. has mentioned, we are blessed in the SE WI and metro Milwaukee/Waukesha area.
There are 4 "steadies" that I can name. and I'm sure Dave knows of a few others.
Hiawatha Hobbies, South Side Trains, Walthers and Somerfeld Trains.
Where I live, Northeast PA we are lucky to have had a new train shop open within the last few years, the shop is doing great with almost no internet business, he seems to do a good job stocking what customers want(as much as possible), has a decent discount on products and freindly service The store carries everything from bargain used items to the lastest pricey sound equipped locos and electronics, plus model kits It is nicely organized store and a fun place to browse and hang out. He also is very good with special ordering items, which winds up being a better deal than buying from the internet. Surprising how many under 30 people are shopping there. The hobby is definitely not dead yet. I think why his store is successful is that it is a smartly run business, that customers like returning to on a regular basis. The store actually expanded last year and is worth a visit if your in Wilkes-Barre/Kingston/Edwardsville, PA. Dave's Train Corner.
James Sanchez
jsanchez Where I live, Northeast PA we are lucky to have had a new train shop open within the last few years, the shop is doing great with almost no internet business, he seems to do a good job stocking what customers want(as much as possible), has a decent discount on products and freindly service The store carries everything from bargain used items to the lastest pricey sound equipped locos and electronics, plus model kits It is nicely organized store and a fun place to browse and hang out. He also is very good with special ordering items, which winds up being a better deal than buying from the internet. Surprising how many under 30 people are shopping there. The hobby is definitely not dead yet. I think why his store is successful is that it is a smartly run business, that customers like returning to on a regular basis. The store actually expanded last year and is worth a visit if your in Wilkes-Barre/Kingston/Edwardsville, PA. Dave's Train Corner.
James,I would give my eye teeth for such a shop close to me.. The only shop that even comes close to your shop is the Train Station in Columbus(Oh) and that's roughly 130 mile round trip.
As of now the closest shop to me is a bicycle shop in Sandusky that carries model trains a 100 mile round trip.
So,my hobby shop is on line.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Da Stumer I'm surprised my LHS is still in business. It takes up the basement of a somewhat derilict strip mall, and has a lot of NOS. Never a ton of people there, and some stuff has probably been sitting on the shelves for over 30 years. When something runs out, it isn't restocked unless a specific request is made, and then I need to go back again to get it.
I'm surprised my LHS is still in business. It takes up the basement of a somewhat derilict strip mall, and has a lot of NOS. Never a ton of people there, and some stuff has probably been sitting on the shelves for over 30 years. When something runs out, it isn't restocked unless a specific request is made, and then I need to go back again to get it.
Yeah that is the hobby shop I have very little surprise when it closes down. My guess is it makes enough income for the owner to run right until their retirement. However, because they don't keep the stock fresh, keep the place clean; they don't have any sort of strong customer base.My guess is that shortly before retirement, that owner will try and drop it off onto somebody younger to run; telling them the joy about how "awesome" it is to run a hobby shop. However while it makes a small steady stream of income for an older family nearing retirement who have their home and cars fully paid off and social security around the corner... it would be a buisness death sentance to anyone in their 20's-40's who don't have a home paid off yet, who are struggling to maintain their secondhand cars, and likely have a young family to feed; with the proposition that to make said shop succesful again they would need to 1) re-locate to a more vibrant location, 2) begin investing in more stock, and 3) begin setting up an online shopping component to help move things that are wasting away on shelves. Its a daunting task; but unfortunately when I am sure the younger generations would refuse the owner of such shop would brush away their disinterest as "kids these days don't like the hobby anymore." Sure they could give the shop to somebody who is older and more established in their 50-60's; but would they be willing to sacrafice their established retirement plans at their 9-5 jobs to take the risk of investing in a small hobby shop?I think a hobby shop can work, but it has to have several keys to make it succesful in this day and age; and that is often-times making it an online focused shop with an LHS storefront at their shipping location. I often pick TrainLife as my favorite LHS, although for most of you outside of Utah they are probably known as an online retailer. Yet I can drive to Provo, talk to the staff for a while and browse their store shelves like any other LHS in the area; even checking out the Pelle Soeborg layout they bought and have on display in the shopping segment. Because they are an online retailer and constantly moving product, the LHS segment's shelves have new products on them nearly everytime I am there to visit. Compared to the other shops in the valley which seem to have the same stuff that was there one or two or even three years ago on store shelves; TrainLife is always something new for me to look at.
York1 Half of the store is set up with tables and chairs for gaming nights.
"Friday Night Magic" is a certified cash cow. When it comes to shelf space used to profit generated, you cannot beat Magic The Gathering.
I'm very fortunate to live near Columbus, OH and go into town several times a week on other business. On the north side, there are four hobby shops within about a 15 minute walk of one another. One of them, The Train Station, is exclusively for model railroading. The Hobbyland used to be another great source but in the past year they have greatly reduced their model railroading merchandise. I'm wondering if they are going to get out of it all together when their current stock sells. Then there is Robbie's Hobbies which has a decent selection and a lot of second hand train stuff as well. The fourth is fairly new and was mostly Lionel. I've only been in there once and their HO was very limited. Mostly second hand if I remember right.
Online has a much better selection, so goes the belief.
As long as the preorder business model hasn't sold them all out too. Try buying something from MB Klein 4 weeks after they got their last container shipment.
The train business itself is keeping less inventory on hand than it used too. I know of several LHS that are out of stock because the runs are so limited they can't keep the shelf stocked. Pretty tough to meet break even costs if the shelves are bare because the factory didn't produce enough product.
Oh well.
- Douglas
The Train Station is a great model train store, it's about 40 miles away from me so I make it there once or twice a month. I always forget about Robbie's Hobbies.
i liked Hobbyland too, I was surprised to see its model train selection dwindle, thus I have not been there in quite some time.
Back to the OP's original point, I am often surprised how many larger cities lack a decent hobby shop, yet others thrive in smaller towns. All the reasons are already well discussed.
On another point someone mentioned record shops, there are many decent record shops in Columbus, OH. They are busy stores and always with patrons. In my view a lot of this stuff comes around full circle. But what do I know.
basementdweller I am often surprised how many larger cities lack a decent hobby shop, yet others thrive in smaller towns.
In Florida:
Good sized cities with decent Model Railroad hobby shops:
Miami (2)
Fort Lauderdale (1)
Daytona Beach (1, Port Orange)
Melbourne (1)
Saint Petersburg (2)
Sarasota (1)
Fort Myers (1, transitioning away from MR)
Naples (1)
Orlando (1)
Port Charlotte (1)
Good sized cities without Model Railroad Hobby Shops:
West Palm Beach
Jacksonville
Tallahassee
Gainesville
Tampa
Ocala
Cape Coral
Bradenton
Small towns with thriving shops:
Spring Hill
What Florida looked like 10 years ago:
Miami (3)
Daytona Beach (2)
Sarasota (2)
Fort Myers (2)
Orlando (4)
Port Charlotte (0)
West Palm Beach (0)
Jacksonville (2)
Tallahassee (1)
Gainesville (1)
Tampa (3)
Ocala (2)
Cape Coral (1)
Bradenton (1)