Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Why No Lionel HO Reissues of Helicopter Car, Satellite Launcher, Missile Launcher, etc.? Locked

1749 views
18 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:31 AM

Since the OP is more intent on shooting missiles than having a reasonable discussion, this "discussion" is done.  Have a nice Sunday everyone...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:21 AM

Shock Control

 

 
dknelson
Standards for toys and toy safety were different in those days. 

 

So how does Lionel get away with making contemporary O gauge repros of these cars?  If there is a market for O gague repros, why not HO?  As I said, I would buy one, and I can't be alone.

Keep in mind that interest in model trains come in all shapes and sizes.  For me, trains are a celebration of mid-century modernism, along with moderne furniture, cocktails, and space-age bachelor pad music.  Seeing that satellite launcher circling my aluminum tree would complete the picture.  I can't be that unusual. 

 

Well, maybe you are, or maybe you are not. But I work in historic architecture, and have worked on a few mid century modern houses, and I can tell you that in my business it is a small market, way behind, Federal, the 11 Victorian styles, Colonial Revival or Bungalow/Craftsman.

I was a child back then and we did not have the silver aluminum tree when it was the "thing", I don't have any interest in one now.

You are correct, the hobby is a broad tent, do what you like, I surely do. While I would be considered pretty "serious" by most, I break my share of the current "rules" for serious modeling.

But as you have seen already in this thread, there is little interest here on the MR forum in such a casual approach.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:18 AM

Tinplate Toddler

Watch your language!

Learn how to read emoticons!  

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:17 AM

Watch your language!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:14 AM

Tinplate Toddler
Then have one made for you!

Thanks for the useless suggestion!  Smile  If I had that kind of power, I wouldn't be talking about this topic to old men on the interwebz!  Big Smile

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:10 AM

Shock Control

 

 
Tinplate Toddler
A toy with hardly any appeal to modern kids, nor collectors.

 

Collectors and kids represent a subset of the market for model or toy trains.  They are not the entire market.  I am neither a kid nor a collector.  I would buy this set, if it were available, in a heartbeat. 

 

Then have one made for you!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: North Carolina
  • 1,905 posts
Posted by csxns on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:10 AM

SPSOT fan
Helicopter cars or Satalite/Missile launchers,

Why can't helicopters ,satalites or missiles be hauled by rail in modern times?

Russell

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:08 AM

Tinplate Toddler
A toy with hardly any appeal to modern kids, nor collectors.

Collectors and kids represent a subset of the market for model or toy trains.  They are not the entire market.  I am neither a kid nor a collector.  I would buy this set, if it were available, in a heartbeat. 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:08 AM

I had one of those Mattel guns that shot the little plastic bullets.......

I grew up with model trains, but never had a missile launcher car, exploding box car, or any of those others, in HO or O. Oh, that's right, I never had O gauge.......

At age 10 my father built me a rather elaborate HO layout, a 14 x 10 "L", 5' deep. With plaster mountains, elevated track, hidden staging, etc. By age 12 I had complete creative control and was on my way. No interest in "toy" trains......

I was already building Silver Streak wood kits and Mantua loco kits.....

Way back then I worked in the train store from age 14 to age 22, and don't see much of a market for these items today.

But what would I know?

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:06 AM

Shock Control
If originals sell for $80 bucks, someone such as I would pay, say $35, for a faithful reissue.

A reissue is just that - a reissue, not a collector´s item, just an expensive remake of an old and at the time  of the release, cheap model. A toy with hardly any appeal to modern kids, nor collectors or "serious model railroaders".

Maybe you should address that question in the Classic Toy Train forum to get the answer you want to hear!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 11:02 AM

SPSOT fan

I have to agree with Ulrich, there just isn’t the market for such items!

Cars such as this are seen my many prototype modelers as (for lack of a better term) gimmicky and toylike. Today, it seems the biggest models are those full of prototype specific details and small wire grab irons and such. Helicopter cars and missed launchers and such just don’t fit into the prototypical nature of the present hobby!

I would be included in those who prefer prototypical trains and avoid toylike equipment. For me the hobby is first about enjoyment, and second about replicating the prototype as close as possible. Also I’m only 16, a good bit below the age of most hobbyists, and can attest to the fact that kids these days just aren’t into Trains as they may once have been! So the “youth” is those in their teens, who are most likely less attracted to toys!

That said there sure is a market for such models, but they‘ve mostly moved up to O guage. In O most people seem to be collectors of older stuff over more contemporary models, hence demand is higher for older stuff. These same people may also look to obtain HO models made by Lionel, considering how many Lionel collectors there are who collect just to collect as opposed to running stuff! Still with most collectors doing O guage, the result is these demand for NEW versions of the models in question.

So presently no demand for Helicopter cars or Satalite/Missile launchers, but who knows what the future holds...

You don't THINK there is a market, because many of you are immersed in the "serious" model railroad community, and don't take into account all the other consumers out there who approach model trains from perspectives other than yours.

For example, I know a guy who collects HO steam engines.  That's all.  He doesn't run them.  They sit on tracks on his shelves. 

So if there is a market for O gauge versions of these cars, there is a market for HO.

And in Decemter, when I am drinking an Old Fashioned and listening to Esquivel in mid-century modern splendor, I want to see a satellite launcher circling my aluminum tree.  

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Pacific Northwest
  • 780 posts
Posted by SPSOT fan on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:58 AM

I have to agree with Ulrich, there just isn’t the market for such items!

Cars such as this are seen my many prototype modelers as (for lack of a better term) gimmicky and toylike. Today, it seems the biggest models are those full of prototype specific details and small wire grab irons and such. Helicopter cars and missed launchers and such just don’t fit into the prototypical nature of the present hobby!

I would be included in those who prefer prototypical trains and avoid toylike equipment. For me the hobby is first about enjoyment, and second about replicating the prototype as close as possible. Also I’m only 16, a good bit below the age of most hobbyists, and can attest to the fact that kids these days just aren’t into Trains as they may once have been! So the “youth” is those in their teens, who are most likely less attracted to toys!

That said there sure is a market for such models, but they‘ve mostly moved up to O guage. In O most people seem to be collectors of older stuff over more contemporary models, hence demand is higher for older stuff. These same people may also look to obtain HO models made by Lionel, considering how many Lionel collectors there are who collect just to collect as opposed to running stuff! Still with most collectors doing O guage, the result is these demand for NEW versions of the models in question.

So presently no demand for Helicopter cars or Satalite/Missile launchers, but who knows what the future holds...

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:54 AM

dknelson
Standards for toys and toy safety were different in those days. 

So how does Lionel get away with making contemporary O gauge repros of these cars?  If there is a market for O gague repros, why not HO?  As I said, I would buy one, and I can't be alone.

Keep in mind that interest in model trains come in all shapes and sizes.  For me, trains are a celebration of mid-century modernism, along with moderne furniture, cocktails, and space-age bachelor pad music.  Seeing that satellite launcher circling my aluminum tree would complete the picture.  I can't be that unusual. 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:53 AM

A friend of mine came across a HO scale Lionel train set.  Of course, he thought it was either a fortune.  He discovered it was really not.

I took it to a train show for him and sold it to a dealer for $20, the best I could get.  It had a giraffe car and a helicopter car.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:51 AM

Tinplate Toddler
I don´t think there is a market for reruns of the stuff you mention

 

I think this is correct.  If there was a company that could make these cars, sell them, and make a profit, they would.

York1 John       

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,439 posts
Posted by dknelson on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:49 AM

I don't know if Athearn made everything in the old Lionel HO line, and even if they did it might be that the tooling was owned by Lionel and reverted to them when the line was shut down.  Most people think of the O gauge versions of the missile launch, helicopter, and giraffe cars as being the sign of Lionel's descent into desperation and lower quality, so I suspect there might not be much corporate nostalgia for the HO versions.   

Times have changed and among the things that have changed are toys for the very young that shoot things or explode or otherwise have small loose parts with potential risks associated with them.  At about the same time that Lionel had its missile and helicopter cars, Mattel had toy guns that shot real bullets, small gray projectiles.  A neighbor boy had one and after a "gun battle" in his house (him shooting his real bullets, and the rest of us firing our cap guns that had real, if tiny, amounts of gun powder) we'd have to crawl around the furniture recovering all the little bullets so he could shoot them at us again.  Fortunately none had lodged in our eyes or down our throats.

Meanwhile my sister had a toy iron (with small ironing board) you could actually plug in and it got pretty darn hot.

Standards for toys and toy safety were different in those days.

Dave Nelson

 

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:40 AM

Tinplate Toddler

Times have changed and so have the interests today´s kids pursue. I don´t think there is a market for reruns of the stuff you mention, but there maybe a colloctor´s market for vintage models.

I completely disagree.  If originals sell for $80 bucks, someone such as I would pay, say $35, for a faithful reissue.

If Lionel Celebration Series O gauge sets sell, so would HO models of these cars.  In fact, Athearn/Lionel could make a Celebration series HO set with these four cars, plus a locomotive and caboose.  I would buy one.

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:34 AM

Times have changed and so have the interests today´s kids pursue. I don´t think there is a market for reruns of the stuff you mention, but there maybe a colloctor´s market for vintage models.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
    December 2016
  • 554 posts
Why No Lionel HO Reissues of Helicopter Car, Satellite Launcher, Missile Launcher, etc.?
Posted by Shock Control on Sunday, January 12, 2020 10:24 AM

I realize that Lionel got out of the HO biz long ago.

That said, to my knowledge, no other HO manufacturer did their own versions of the classic Helicopter Car, Satellite Launcher, Missile Launcher, and Exploding Boxcar.

In the 1950s, these would have been manufactured by Athearn, correct?  If so, why doesn't Athearn strike a deal with Lionel to reissue these cars?  The originals are very pricey when they are in good shape; it seems like there would be a market for these.  

As an ardent devotee of mid-century modernism, I know that any or all of these cars would look great circling our aluminum Christmas tree. 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!