Picked up an unbuilt LifeLike Proto 2K 52'6" drop-end gondola kit at an LHS bargain closet. The wheelsets that came with the kit are NS 30" 33" rib-backed .110s with plastic axles. Very free-running, with superb detail casting of the wheels themselves. Inside the rims I can read "ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS OF CHILLED CAST WHEELS A.A.R. 1935" - using a big hand lens. Any information out there as to who produced them for LifeLike?
Nice kit, especially for $7. But I think the grabs and stirrups are too delicate. I was zero-for-two for the first end-sill grabs - they both broke in half. Wonder if the plastic gets brittle over a few years. Don't know when these were produced. Will probably do wire ones instead.
Thanks, guys - and maybe gals,
John
The wheels in the Life-Like Proto 2000 kits were made by Life-Like in their Chinese Factory. For a while they were available as seperate parts, but they were never offered by anyone else as far as I know.
.
The wheels, as nice as they are, should be replaced. The metal plating will flake off, and it you leave one on the tracks for too long in one place, the metal will transfer from the wheels to the rail.
I replace the end grabs with wire grabs from Tichy and the stirrups with steps from A-Line as shown in the picture below.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
John,
I could be wrong but the wheelsets for those gons are probably 33" ribbed rather than 30"? I have no idea who manufacturered those for the LikeLike Proto kits. I do agree though that they are very good quality.
Under LifeLike those used to be available for purchase separately as both wheelsets (12-pk) and as two-axle trucks (2-pk). When Walthers picked up the Proto 2000 line they continued manufacuring them. Unfortunately, Walthers decided the last year or two to discontinue the ribbed wheelsets in 12-pks and only make them available in the two-axle trucks 2-pks. I now get my ribbed wheelsets from Intermountain.
The grabs and stirrups on all the Proto 2000 kits are/were notoriously fragile - especially the stirrups. As the plastic ages the elastomers may leach out and make the parts even more brittle. You could always opt for metal stirrups from A-line and the grabs from Tichy. I added them to some boxcars I had last year and they look terrific.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
It helps to clean out the holes as sometimes the paint has built up in them. I believe a #78 drill works. I seem to recall this being hinted at in the instructions?
I recently completed several War Emergency hoppers. Life-Like thoughtfully provided wire grabs for these but mounting them in the thin-section corner angle iron is a challenge.
That was 336 holes in the six cars I did! Life's little rewards
I agree with Kevin. Many of my L-L wheels have plating flaking off and I've had quite a few that were mal-formed or out-of-round.
Good Luck, Ed
All of my rolling stock has P2K wheels. Prior to Walthers buying Life Like, you could get them in packs of 12 wheelsets for $3.99 from MB Klein. No other wheels were even remotely this low in cost. And the P2K wheels fit perfectly in Athearn and Accurail trucks, which made up the majority of my rolling stock.
Once Walthers bought them, the price quickly skyrocketed. I will probably use Intermountain going forward, since I can get a deal through the club for the 100 pair boxes. More than $3.99 for 12, but well under the $7.95/12 I last paid for P2K from Walthers.
I have lots of rolling miles on a bunch of my rolling stock, and no issue witht he plating wearing off. left stuff sit for weeks and never had any evidence of transfer to the rails. Most have resistors added since they are required for the block detection at the club.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
tstage John, I could be wrong but the wheelsets for those gons are probably 33" ribbed rather than 30"? Tom
I could be wrong but the wheelsets for those gons are probably 33" ribbed rather than 30"?
AttuvianYou are correct. I think I had a brain -, ah, cranial synaptic gas release.
It could be anyone's gas...er, guess...
tstage Attuvian You are correct. I think I had a brain -, ah, cranial synaptic gas release. John, It could be anyone's gas...er, guess... Tom
Attuvian You are correct. I think I had a brain -, ah, cranial synaptic gas release.
I did a couple of LL P2K tank cars. It was suggested by a person at a train show booth to get a set of reamers. Don't know why the drill idea above shouldnn't work, but since not all the holes are the same size, a reamer makes it easy to just scuff the hole big enough for each different piece.
Never have had any trouble with the wheels, but haven't run them much, as I'm waiting for a new layout.
It definitely was a good idea that they put extra small parts in the kits.
Good luck,
Richard
The old LL/Proto wheels and trucks were both very good, I have maybe a couple dozen cars that I re-trucked with Proto trucks & wheels. They look great and are very smooth rolling.
Here's a look at the writing on the wheel:
LL_wheelsets by Edmund, on Flickr
The right-most wheel tread is showing the blistered plating I mentioned. All of the wheels in this group have a slight degree of blistering.
LL_crop by Edmund, on Flickr
That gray patch on the lower-third of the tread is where the plating has completely chipped away. The rest, you can tell, is getting bubbly.
Mind you I probably have at least eighty Life-Like cars so out of 640 wheels I've probably seen this on maybe two-dozen wheels. It seems like they changed processes as the smooth-back wheels and some of the later Walthers wheels have more of a "platinum" look rather than a shiny chrome look as the early ones did.
Regards, Ed
My experiences with LL-Proto 2000 wheels are like Ed's, but I don't have any pictures of the really bad ones.
This pictures shows the ribbed back LLP2000 wheels on the left, and the newer smooth back wheels on the right. Later, there was another style wheel with a metal axle.
This is a close up of some of the pitting of the plating just beginning.
When I started replacing wheels sets, I used the LL Proto, I'll to look at some of the earlier cars I did, and look for the blistering.
My time period is after the ribbed wheels.
After Walters takeover, I went to Intermountain, and they are now my go-to.
Mike.
My You Tube
I went down to the basement and looked at most of the LL P2000 cars, some have been in interchange since new (7/16/98), others have been forgotten in a siding since new (8/98) (dusty w/spiderwebs). WARNING do not turn a live load gondola over to far to look at the wheels. No blistering on the treads here. Looks like the black is worn off where the tread runs on the rail, smooth as silk. Pulled some LLP2K cars out of storage (NIB 7/16/98, 8k gal. type 21 tank car in a very nice silver w/red print Kanotex #8279) nothing there. Looked at my LLP2K wheel stock (NIB 3/29/03) nothing there. Maybe someone sneezed on those blistered wheels before they were coated at the factory.
LLP2K wheel sets, my earliest date stamp 12/28/99.
Item 21257, 36'' wheel set 12 pack (no cast print on the face of the wheel). Cost direct from LL $6.00 plus 15% s/h in 1998.
Item 21258, 33'' flat back wheel set 12 pack (cast print on the face of the wheel). Cost direct from LL $6.00 plus 15% s/h in 1998. Cost $3.99 MBK's, my date stamp 1/25/03.
Item 21259, 33'' ribbed back wheel set 12 pack (cast print on the face of the wheel). Cost direct from LL $6.00 plus 15% s/h in 1998.
Adderss on the back of the package. LIFE-LIKE PRODUCTS, INC., BALTIMORE, MD. 21211 USA Exclusively Dist. in Canada by Candian Hobbycraft, 140 Applewood Cresent, Concord, Ontario L4K 4E2, MADE IN CHINA.
It's funny how the prices were all over the board,
1/11/03 $5.95
1/25/03 $3.99
3/29/03 $7.29
8/14/03 $8.00
1/11/04 $5.60
4/24/04 $7.19
The ones I put resistors on (about 1/4 of them - one resistor wheelset per truck), I then polished with the soft brass wire wheel on a Dremel. Just the tread - I painted the faces, and I sprayed the axle and resistor to protect the conductive paint and to hide the silver of the paint.
As for the tank cars - one of my tricks with them is to drill out all the holes - especially the ones there the other side is going to be an interior hidden part. I did the same with Branchline boxcar kits. That way I could glue the grabs from the inside. Yes, a reamer would be quicker, but you'd still be glueing from the outside. I put together enough of those tank cars that by the ends I could do one in maybe 2 hours tops, from opening the box to having it rolling.
I am an IM wheel set dude. The P2K kits are fantastic looking. I purchased a set of 8 single floor stock cars and they are gorgeous! I purchased the wire grabs and such and after reaming and glueing around 200 of them I had some kind of nervous break down, tried to shoot myself, but my hands were shaking so badly I missed!
disregard--wrong thread!
Depending on how much of a nit picker you are, this may be of interest.
"As of January 1st, 1958 cast iron wheels were banned from new and rebuilt cars, From January 1st, 1964 no new cast iron wheels were allowed on existing cars, and from January 1st, 1968 all cast iron wheels were banned from interchange."