maxman doctorwayne I have several Athearn tank cars, but this one has been modified quite drastically. So, what happened to the photos?
doctorwayne
So, what happened to the photos?
Now here is a unit tank car train.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4922354
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
doctorwayneI have several Athearn tank cars, but this one has been modified quite drastically.
caldreamer ONLY trains that carry certain types of hazardous materials (crude oil, ethanol, inhalation hazardous materials, etc) require a buffer car between the engines and the first hazmat car. If the train contains more than a certain number of inhalation hazardous material cars it is designated a key train and furthur restrictions will apply.
ONLY trains that carry certain types of hazardous materials (crude oil, ethanol, inhalation hazardous materials, etc) require a buffer car between the engines and the first hazmat car. If the train contains more than a certain number of inhalation hazardous material cars it is designated a key train and furthur restrictions will apply.
The simple version for Key Trains.
If there is one load of "toxic/poison inhalation hazard" or twenty or more loads of hazardous materials, it is a Key train. A train with 20 or more loads of petroleum crude oil is a Key Train - Crude Oil. A train of 20 or more loads of a Class 3 Flammable Liquid in a continuous block or 35 or more of such cars across the entire train is a Key Train - High Hazzard Flammable Train.
All key trains are limited to 50 mph. Key Train-Crude Oil and Key Train-High Hazzard Flammable Trains are further limited to 40 mph in High Threat Urban Areas.
Placement restrictions and the use of buffer cars goes back many years. Employee time tables back in the late 1970s started having the placement in train chart in special instructions. The requirements and restrictions may go back further than that.
Buffer car(s) can be any non-restricted car (some hazmat is unrestricted and could be used as a buffer car) although loaded cars are preferred.
Jeff
hon30critterMaybe doctorwayne will add some more information on what can be done to make those sow's ears train set cars into silk purses. Dave
Dave, I took a Mantua chemical tank car body mounted the couplers,used Athearn trucks,painted it black and decaled it UTLX and it lost its trainset looks. The same could be applied to AHM PS2 covered hopper and with a little more work their PS1 boxcar could be upgraded to a better looking car..
I dunno some times I miss those days.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
hon30critter...Maybe doctorwayne will add some more information on what can be done to make those sow's ears train set cars into silk purses.
I don't know about the silk purses part, but many early kit offerings from many manufacturers can certainly be "tweaked" with a few added details, or even just some weathering.
I have several Athearn tank cars, but this one has been modified quite drastically. I was on my way home after a nightshift, and only a few blocks from the steel plant where I worked, was Proctor & Gamble's factory. In their yard, easily accessible from the street, was a frameless tank car - a fairly new concept at that time. While I didn't have my camera with me, I did have some paper and a pencil, so got out of the car and walked over to where I had a good view, and sketched the car, including all the lettering on it, plus whatever notes I thought might be useful.I built the model, shown below, using the shortened tank from Athearn's somewhat unusual 50' tank car with with a frame. Pretty-well most of the details are scratchbuilt...
I got a surprisingly good price for it when I backdated my layout and sold-off my too-modern stuff, despite some pretty good tank car kits and r-t-r stuff being available at that time.
I do have a few Athearn tank cars on my layout, all of them altered somewhat, and most lettered for GERN Industries. This one is Athearn's "chemical" tank car...
...and another version...
...the same car, but shortened...
...and Athearn's regular tank car. also shortened...
This one is Athearn's 3-dome tank car, a type usually used to carry different commodities in each of the tank's three compartments. I've added the older-style railings and long platform with which most of these cars were originally fitted...
Even Varney's much earlier offerings can be tweaked a bit to look more realistic. I got this one new, in the '50s, but have re-detailed and re-lettered it...
...and I got this Varney tank (no underframe or trucks) at a train show for my favourite price - "free"! After shortening it slightly...
...to better fit onto a Tichy underfame...
...I ended up with this...
I liked the looks of LifeLike's Proto2000 tank car kits when they were first offered, but they were out of my price range. However, many modellers complained about the difficulties encountered when trying to assemble them, especially the grabirons and other plastic add-on details. As a result, many partially-built kits began showing-up on the "used" table at my LHS. While some were a real mess, I bought several that weren't too badly done, and at a reasonable price, and was able to re-detail them.Eventually, Proto released the r-t-r versions, even further out of my price range, but they flew off the shelves while the kits languished for quite some time, with little or none being sold.I was fortunate to be in my LHS when the owner, a somewhat frugal individual, finally put those kits on sale, and I scooped-up several, at a very good price.I immediately discarded the troublesome (and somewhat out-of-scale) details, substituting metal parts, either readily available or scratchbuilt. I liked the fact that there was a wide range of lessors and lessees lettered on the cars, and a surprising number of Canadian companies represented, too.Here are a couple of examples...
...and they also offered more than one body-style, as shown by this somewhat more-portly car...
York1 I'm kind of glad I haven't posted any pictures of my trains.
I'm kind of glad I haven't posted any pictures of my trains.
hon30critterHi David, I think that the criticism that you have received is a bit harsh. You have put together an interesting train, and learned some things in the process....
Hi David,
I think that the criticism that you have received is a bit harsh. You have put together an interesting train, and learned some things in the process. For example, you now realize that toy train set cars with truck mounted couplers are a bit of a challenge.
You can make those low quality cars into excellent models, but it takes a lot more work than just trying to shim the trucks. The first thing to do would be to body mount the couplers. That is easy to do on freight cars but the open frames on tankers usually require a bit more work. Then there is the issue of molded on railings and grab irons. Some people are okay with them but if you want to create a real gem, you might consider shaving them all off and replacing them with real wire. Tichy Train Group sells 0.0125" phosphor bronze wire that is the perfect size for HO scale railings and grabs.
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/ho_wire/p/1106/Default.aspx
It is easy to bend and tough enough to stay straight when the car is being handled.
Maybe doctorwayne will add some more information on what can be done to make those sow's ears train set cars into silk purses.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
York1 John
OvermodSurely you don't think they use new ones ... or ones still serviceable for grain transport ... as the buffer-car candidates?
I should have also mention the majority of the buffer cars I've seen been two bay covered hoppers in good shape. I have seen 3 bay covered hoppers as buffers but,not as often as the two bays.
Pls forgive the late input, but I was out of town and stumbled on this interesting topic. I too model tank cars and know the importance of having buffer cars. The picture does not show them, so I think it's something to add for realism.
I found a great video that explains how/where an types of cars to use for buffers here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or8y2CPuySM.
doctorwayneYou're certainly correct, Overmod, so I hope you'll forgive my spur-of-the-moment reply.
Nothing needing forgiveness; it was a fair reply.
Part of the question that hasn't been answered is whether he wants to 'operate' in present time but with legacy equipment, or is modeling a particular era. There were certainly the equivalent of 'unit trains' with riveted tank cars, some of which might have been cobbled together without the time to repaint some of the cars, in the months after U-boats started interdicting coastal oil shipping. The early experiments with GATX Tank Trains came in the 1970s, and I believe the concept is earlier. So there is ample historical precedent (and certainly a plausible-nonsense excuse) for operating many tank cars together in a 'block'.
Likewise, legacy F units could certainly haul a modern unit train across 'their' railroad, either to a new customer or as part of an "operational detour" due to, say, AGW-influenced increased chronic flooding, or political action concerning the 'Blast Zone'. I saw Fs (in a matched A-B-B-A set, no less) working on EL in first-line service as late as the early Seventies, and doing it with apparently long trains with no particular visible difficulty. Even today you could buy the NS rebuilt Fs (with 645s and modern dash-2 electronics inside) and run very effective service if you wanted.
If I recall correctly the rule I cited gives many of the placarding and separation concerns; others may be included in adjacent sections of the CFR (all of which is searchably on line). One reason for him to observe all this stuff even if 'not required' to do it is that it's common-sense safer for his imagined crews and public if he does...
OvermodI suspect very few people are building tank trains to transport corn syrup, vegetable oil, or molasses in tank cars marked "SHELL" or 'chlorine', even under 'my railroad, my rules' license. The train in the pictures would have an additional problem, combining oxidizer hazmat with cars in some sort of train carrying substantial blocks of fuel (crude oil or perhaps additives of some kind for refining in Shell cars; ethanol, biodiesel, Bakken or Eagle Ford crude in those modern black tank trains). Most anything worth transporting that way is likely to be 'hazardous' in the sense of this Federal regulation...
You're certainly correct, Overmod, so I hope you'll forgive my spur-of-the-moment reply.
The use of buffer cars is fairly recent (not sure of the exact date) but for quite some time there have been regulations in place governing the placement of cars carrying various hazardous materials. This includes the distances for a hazardous material (usually expressed in number of cars) from a locomotive or caboose, and the number of cars carrying non-hazardous cargo that need to be between those cars carrying specific hazardous commodities - f'instance, no car carrying a flammable load next to one carrying an explosive load.
I'm sure there must be dozens of these restrictions listed by the FRA or other regulatory organisations.
Wayne
Ayup, I need to replace the odd commidity cars, like the chlorine tanker with oil tankers. Gotta do a few more train shows to pick up some more oil tank cars. I can update the motive power to GP-40s. I can scare up some covered hoppers for buffer cars. I assume the regular gray paint jobs, with some weathering would do.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
BRAKIEThe buffer cars can not be damage since they are part of a train.
Surely you don't think they use new ones ... or ones still serviceable for grain transport ... as the buffer-car candidates?
I did mean 'damage' as dents, rusted patches, perhaps bent rails and the like -- old and beat-up. Certainly not functional damage that would make the car unsafe to run even in captive service. Sorry for not making that clearer.
Overmod"SHELL" or 'chlorine'. The train in the pictures would have an additional problem, combining oxidizer hazmat with cars in some sort of fuel train (crude oil or perhaps additives of some kind for refining in Shell cars; ethanol, biodiesel, Bakken or Eagle Ford crude in those modern black tank trains).
Two other problems with this alleged unit train...
But, as they say, it's your railroad. If these details don't bother you, by all means, run what you want.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
OvermodFor your purposes a couple of well-weathered and perhaps damaged covered hoppers would do the job.
The buffer cars can not be damage since they are part of a train. The buffer car usually has a placards that reads "Buffer car service only". I am told these covered hoppers are loaded with sand.. The ones I checked had to be empty because the truck's springs wasn't depress like a loaded car springs would be.
dstarr Overmod WHERE ARE YOUR BUFFER CARS????????? What is a buffer car?
Overmod WHERE ARE YOUR BUFFER CARS?????????
WHERE ARE YOUR BUFFER CARS?????????
What is a buffer car?
See 49 CFR 174.85, particularly the table in (d).
I suspect very few people are building tank trains to transport corn syrup, vegetable oil, or molasses in tank cars marked "SHELL" or 'chlorine', even under 'my railroad, my rules' license. The train in the pictures would have an additional problem, combining oxidizer hazmat with cars in some sort of train carrying substantial blocks of fuel (crude oil or perhaps additives of some kind for refining in Shell cars; ethanol, biodiesel, Bakken or Eagle Ford crude in those modern black tank trains). Most anything worth transporting that way is likely to be 'hazardous' in the sense of this Federal regulation.
The usual 'buffer cars', since they're dedicated to this service, are things like war-weary covered hoppers filled with some neutral material like sand. I almost always see the 'exemption for unit trains' followed, with one buffer car separating the power from the train, and one on the rear with the FRED.
For your purposes a couple of well-weathered and perhaps damaged covered hoppers would do the job. Someone like Carl can advise you what markings, paint colors, etc. might be likely.
Overmod