At $40 to $50 each for those Kadee cars - to buy up a fleet of them, 100's of cars that I will need - it will take a long time, because of the cost. I am more than happy with $10 Accurail cars. I have some older stuff, E&B Valley kits, a couple of Train-Miniature (before Walthers) hoppers, a wood caboose kit I haven't put together yet - forget what that one is. Some F&C kits, though many of their offerings are too old for my era. BB kits, P2K kits and a few RTR, all sorts of stuff, probably missing many. Run them all in a train together and you don't notice that the Kadee is way more detailed than the BB, or that the BB is lacking in a lot of detailed compared to the Kadee - it sort of averages out as the train rolls by and it all looks decent. I buy kits not based on how new or old they are, but by if they fit my era and railroad. I'm not so sure I'd put together something like the original Varney or Red Ball kits with the lithograph sides, most of thsoe were made before my modeled era, but I have no problem grabbing a BB or a Stewart kit and adding it to the current roster. I'll happily cruise train shows and eBay for more P2K locos, or even the old Atlas/Kato Alcos - always can use more RS-3s. They run great and look fine. I'm sure the Rapido PA will be nice, but I'm modeling the Reading, not the Lehigh Valley, so no PAs on the roster. I think the newest production locos I own are my T1 4-8-4s, and as they are the original Precision Craft run they have to be 13-14 years old by now. Oh wait, I did buy one of those Walther Plymouth switchers, that's the newest thing. And the Bachmann 44-tonner I have is I think from the run about 10 years ago. But those P2Ks are all older, as are the Stewart F units, and all those Atlas/Kato RS-3s I have.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Here is the other thing, I have been at this hobby since 1968. At that time I inherited a small fleet of Varney and Athearn cars, and some typical locos of the early 60's.
Some of those items remain in my possession, some went way thru kit bash experiments, etc.
But I have never sold off, or other wise disposed of stuff in a wholesale, start over fashion. In fact I don't think I have ever sold a piece of rolling stock, and only sold off a few locomotives I later decided I did not need or that where not acceptable.
I still have Sliver Streak kits I built at age 14/15, I am 62. I still have structures and accessories my parents built from kits when I was a young child.
I have never changed era, or scale, or primary road names modeled.
It has taken these 50 years to accumulate 1000 freight cars, 200 passenger cars, and 140 locomotives.
As mentioned above, I'm not replacing models that I consider acceptable.
And I'm not spending $50 on every new addition to the rolling stock roster.
I'm building a layout that will stage 30 trains, each 35 to 45 cars long. You do the math.
Stuff like Bowser, Accurail, Athearn/Roundhouse, Train Miniature, older Walthers, Varney metal line, is mostly correct enough and detailed enough, sometimes with a little work.
Like Randy, my fleet of Bowser and Accurail WESTERN MARYLAND hoppers is more than detailed enough as 40 of them go rolling by.
I still have kits to build, and RTR stuff to tune up to my standards. And while I don't need to be able to say I built everything on the railroad, I do like to build kits.
So I am deep into both schools of thought, I have lots of RTR, I have lots of kits.
But not every piece of rolling stock needs to be a rivet perfect award winner, kit or RTR, they just have to look their part in one of those 30 long trains.......
Sheldon
richhotrain I was seriously considering the purchase of an undecorated loco to add to my roster, particularly for a lesser known roadname. But, in the end, I was convinced that my unskilled efforts would make a mockery out of the finished product, so I took a pass.
.
I am most proud of some of my earlier lesser attempts at STRATTON AND GILLETTE locomotives. True, they are no where near as good as what I am producing today, but I love all my fleet.
I think you should go for it.
rrinker If I had to outfit my entire railroad with Kadee-level RTR rolling stock, it would be years before I had enough for a few trains.
It does not take all that long. For the past two years I have been working non-stop on the improved "Fleet Of Nonsense" for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE. All these freight cars are Kadee, Intermountain, Red Caboose, Westefield, Funaro & Camerlengo, Other Resin, or Brass.
I have completed almost 150 of these freight cars, that averages out to about 1.5 per week. It has been a true labor of love. I have shared most of the NON-SGRR cars on Weekend Photo Fun as they get completed.
Locomotives... not so much. Here I give preference to rugged and easy to repair. Brass steamers and Blue Box diesels are still my choices for motive power.
These Rapido PA locomotives better be rock-solid.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
If I had to outfit my entire railroad with Kadee-level RTR rolling stock, it would be years before I had enough for a few trains. I have a few pieces - they are incredibly nice, but that level of detail costs. I am quite happy with a huge hopper fleet made of mostly Accurail and Stewart/Bowser. Many its, btu when they also offered RTR, I bought those too, because they actually made them in different numbers than the kits.
For me, getting there is at least 75% of the fun. I'm not an instant gratification kind of person (got to admit, I do like ordering things and getting them the next day from Amazon though). I have recent gadgets, but I don't go wait in line to get them day 1 - I hate waiting in lines more than I hate not having the newest things.
It's all good, some people like running trains and operating much more than building, so having more available in RTR form gets them there that much faster. It's not just the modern instant gratification mentality driving this.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Here is the conundrum, back in the day when you had to build rolling stock, modelers developed their skills on simple $4 box car red freight cars and black steam locos with white letters on the tender before they tried to paint a set of blue, grey and gold striped B&O F3's. No so today......... I don't want to drift too far off topic here by staying with the RTR issue, but I will offer this thought. I understand that there is a significant degree of nostalgia among a segment of the model railroading community for the days of yore,so to speak. But, since RTR is available today regarding locomotives and rolling stock, why not take advantage of it as opposed to doing things the "old way" when RTR was not available? I am reminded of a point very early in my career when I worked in a data processing department of a large corporation. One of my assignments was to operate an IBM 407 accounting machine. The accounting machine was "wired" like a telephone switch board in order to program the accounting machine. I know of no one today in the Information Technology field who wishes to return to the IBM 407 accounting machine. For nostalgia purposes, however, I include the following link. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/407.html Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Here is the conundrum, back in the day when you had to build rolling stock, modelers developed their skills on simple $4 box car red freight cars and black steam locos with white letters on the tender before they tried to paint a set of blue, grey and gold striped B&O F3's. No so today.........
Here is the conundrum, back in the day when you had to build rolling stock, modelers developed their skills on simple $4 box car red freight cars and black steam locos with white letters on the tender before they tried to paint a set of blue, grey and gold striped B&O F3's.
No so today.........
I don't want to drift too far off topic here by staying with the RTR issue, but I will offer this thought. I understand that there is a significant degree of nostalgia among a segment of the model railroading community for the days of yore,so to speak. But, since RTR is available today regarding locomotives and rolling stock, why not take advantage of it as opposed to doing things the "old way" when RTR was not available?
I am reminded of a point very early in my career when I worked in a data processing department of a large corporation. One of my assignments was to operate an IBM 407 accounting machine. The accounting machine was "wired" like a telephone switch board in order to program the accounting machine. I know of no one today in the Information Technology field who wishes to return to the IBM 407 accounting machine. For nostalgia purposes, however, I include the following link.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/407.html
Rich
To a large extent, I agree. Except for some very specific items, I am not out shopping for more old kits. And as I explained I buy lots of RTR of various detail grades and prices. I have lots of Athearn Ready to Roll, now Roundhouse, produced in the last 15-20 years, but produced largely from 40 to 60 year old tooling.
Some of our friends on here will just turn up their nose at the thought...
And I buy plenty of higher end, higher detail stuff.
But here is what I am not going to do. Completed and on the layout, or yet to be built models already in my possession and deemed acceptable in accuracy and detail, are not going to be sold off or disposed of in favor of new RTR.
And in my 1954 era, many of those models do not have equal or better replacements on the market today. I'm not waiting and hoping......
Selling trains to buy other trains is not part of the hobby for me.
PS It's my thread, we can drift anywhere it goes within the rules......
Alton Junction
richhotrain Sheldon, you make some good points, and I wasn't trying to suggest that you were directing the RTR comment at me. The only point that I was trying to make is that purchasing an undecorated loco in order to paint and decal it to match a chosen prototype color scheme is near the top of a modeler's skill level. On more than one occasion, I was seriously considering the purchase of an undecorated loco to add to my roster, particularly for a lesser known roadname. But, in the end, I was convinced that my unskilled efforts would make a mockery out of the finished product, so I took a pass. Rich
Sheldon, you make some good points, and I wasn't trying to suggest that you were directing the RTR comment at me. The only point that I was trying to make is that purchasing an undecorated loco in order to paint and decal it to match a chosen prototype color scheme is near the top of a modeler's skill level.
On more than one occasion, I was seriously considering the purchase of an undecorated loco to add to my roster, particularly for a lesser known roadname. But, in the end, I was convinced that my unskilled efforts would make a mockery out of the finished product, so I took a pass.
No worries, I understood. I spelled all that out for everyone's benefit.
I will admit, I model the C&O, B&O, and Western Maryland, and short of finding a deal on a piece of unpainted brass, I have no motivation to letter anything for these roads when I can just buy most of what I want.
Except, for example, WESTERN MARYLAND passenger cars. Nobody makes them, nor are they likely to. Guess what, those Athearn heavyweights all the rivet counters say are incorrect, they are easily kit bashed into pretty accurate WM cars. Athearn cars are 72', WM cars were about 75'. Close enough with different trucks and few details.
But I love the freelance thing mixed in with prototype modeling. There is an extra creativity in believable fiction that is lots of fun. That means painting and lettering equipment for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
I like all phases of this hobby, and I like finding a good balance.
And I have my fancy Spring Mills Depot RTR B&O caboose and covered hoppers, and I have their undecorated kit versions for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL I think it is very likely they simply don't think undecorated models will sell. They don't have to commit to numbers until May, so it makes no sense to me. But again, it has become a ready to run hobby.......... Sheldon, I get what you mean about "a ready to run hobby", although I don't place the same negative connotation on it that you do. That said, someone who won't buy an undecorated loco is not necessarily a ready to run hobbyist. I will use myself as an example. I scratch build structures on occasion, install decoders, and enough other tasks to exclude myself from the RTR hobbyist classification. But, painting undecorated locos to match their prototype color scheme is a whole other art form. You need special tools and skills to do that. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I think it is very likely they simply don't think undecorated models will sell. They don't have to commit to numbers until May, so it makes no sense to me. But again, it has become a ready to run hobby..........
I think it is very likely they simply don't think undecorated models will sell. They don't have to commit to numbers until May, so it makes no sense to me.
But again, it has become a ready to run hobby..........
Sheldon, I get what you mean about "a ready to run hobby", although I don't place the same negative connotation on it that you do.
That said, someone who won't buy an undecorated loco is not necessarily a ready to run hobbyist. I will use myself as an example. I scratch build structures on occasion, install decoders, and enough other tasks to exclude myself from the RTR hobbyist classification. But, painting undecorated locos to match their prototype color scheme is a whole other art form. You need special tools and skills to do that.
Rich, my only negative connotation regarding that comes from some of those "RTR modelers" who seem to question why anyone would build a kit or paint and decal any loco or rolling stock.
You are a modeler of of the highest caliber in the areas that interest you, and that is fine. I have the highest respect for your work and respect your modeling skills and choices.
I buy lots of RTR rolling stock and locomotives. I have no issue with that aspect of the hobby. I also build kits, paint and decal my home road equipment, kitbash all sorts of rolling stock, improve the detail on less expensive models, etc.
But there are those on this forum who subtelly or openly make it clear that only high end, high detail RTR is acceptable to them, and again, they can't understand those of us who still build kits, run "blue box" equipment or who "accept" anything less than some rivet perfect $60 piece of equipment.
My contention is that the "RTR ONLY" crowd has more of an "us or them" attitude than any of us who build/paint rolling stock or kitbash locomotives.
I'm building a layout that needs 1000 freight cars, half or more are RTR, the other half range from easy kits to craftsman kits, and date back as far as 65 years. I submit that most of the RTR crowd would have a hard time knowing which cars are which.
maxman gmpullman What am I missing here? https://tonystrains.com/product/rapido-023099-ho-alco-pa-2-pb-2-set-standard-dc-undecorated-non-dynamic-brakes I'm getting confused. Possibly Trainworld has chosen not to order any of those? Or maybe they just forgot? I suppose you could call them and ask.
gmpullman What am I missing here? https://tonystrains.com/product/rapido-023099-ho-alco-pa-2-pb-2-set-standard-dc-undecorated-non-dynamic-brakes I'm getting confused.
What am I missing here?
https://tonystrains.com/product/rapido-023099-ho-alco-pa-2-pb-2-set-standard-dc-undecorated-non-dynamic-brakes
I'm getting confused.
Possibly Trainworld has chosen not to order any of those? Or maybe they just forgot? I suppose you could call them and ask.
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL Maxman, at Trainworld, a "backorder" is a preorder, take a look at their site and look up anything that is currently in "preorder" status from any manufacturer. Sheldon If you say so. I just looked in their policy section and they say that “back order and pre-orders are available for items that are not currently in stock as well as items that have not been released yet”. Sounds like two different things to me.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Maxman, at Trainworld, a "backorder" is a preorder, take a look at their site and look up anything that is currently in "preorder" status from any manufacturer. Sheldon
Maxman, at Trainworld, a "backorder" is a preorder, take a look at their site and look up anything that is currently in "preorder" status from any manufacturer.
If you say so. I just looked in their policy section and they say that “back order and pre-orders are available for items that are not currently in stock as well as items that have not been released yet”.
Sounds like two different things to me.
And if you go to their "preorder" section, all the tabs to add the items to the cart say "backorder".......
gmpullman ATLANTIC CENTRAL Ed, Like me, I'm pretty sure Kevin is only interested in DC powered undecorated....... Sheldon What am I missing here? https://tonystrains.com/product/rapido-023099-ho-alco-pa-2-pb-2-set-standard-dc-undecorated-non-dynamic-brakes I'm getting confused. Just trying to lay out some options for potential buyers. Thank you, Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Ed, Like me, I'm pretty sure Kevin is only interested in DC powered undecorated....... Sheldon
Just trying to lay out some options for potential buyers.
Thank you, Ed
You're not missing anything. Yes, Tony's has the undecorated versions, Trainworld does not have them listed.
I've never dealt with Tony's, no opinion either way about that.
ATLANTIC CENTRALEd, Like me, I'm pretty sure Kevin is only interested in DC powered undecorated....... Sheldon
All the items I've "preordered" through TrainWorld were made through the "Taking Backorders" option. They have fulfilled every order.
I plan to place my order with Toy Train Heaven.
gmpullmangmpullman wrote the following post 36 minutes ago: SeeYou190 How does pre-ordering from Train-World work? "Taking Backorders" is their way of saying the item is not in stock but you can order it.
I don't believe that taking backorders and taking pre-orders mean the same thing.
Looking at Rapido's website, they also say taking pre-orders. The closing date for pre-orders is 05/22/2020 with a (probably wishful thinking) delivery date of Fall, 2020. See: https://rapidotrains.com/new-product-delivery-schedule.
I think what they, Rapido, try to do is match final production paint schemes and so forth to the pre-orders so that they don't make too many of one scheme and not enough of another. So if only 10 pre-orders come in for undecorated but 200 come in for XYZ RR, they won't make 200 undecs and only 10 XYZ.
I think that back orders relates to orders after the fact. So after the pre-order deadline passes and the model is delivered, if any of the folks who pre-ordered change their mind, these now available models will go out to those who back-ordered.
It also seems to me that some dealers limit the number of models for which they will accept pre-orders. I deal with a distributor. And when I pre-ordered two Rapido B36-7s the rep told me that they were only allowed to accept pre-orders for so many of each flavor of B36. I don't know if this was a manufacturer mandate, or a local management decision. I suspect that it was a local decision. Maybe they got burned too many times by folks who pre-ordered an unpopular roadname which they then could no get rid of.
Ed,
Like me, I'm pretty sure Kevin is only interested in DC powered undecorated.......
SeeYou190How does pre-ordering from Train-World work?
"Taking Backorders" is their way of saying the item is not in stock but you can order it.
https://www.trainworld.com/search/?bymanufacturer=6049&bycategory=&byscale=&road_name=&electronics=&engine=925
I like the fact that when their inventory comes in they call you to make sure you still want the item you have on "backorder".
I bought the Royal Hudson, a pair of RDCs and some B&O FA-2s from them.
I forgot to mention Tony's Train Exchange. They are pretty decent too (and they list the undecorated for those so inclined):
https://tonystrains.com/manufacturers/rapido
Good Luck, Ed
Kevin, I sent you a PM.
SeeYou190 I have never preordered an item like this before that has not even been manufactured yet. I was under the impression that preordering from the manufacturer was the only option. . How does pre-ordering from Train-World work? . -Kevin .
I have never preordered an item like this before that has not even been manufactured yet. I was under the impression that preordering from the manufacturer was the only option.
How does pre-ordering from Train-World work?
I have only preordered a few things, but generally the dealers have a web based order system and you get on their list for that product. Generally you don't pay until the item ships, or you pay some sort of small refundable deposit.
When I get my answers from Rapido, I plan to contact several vendors near here and see what their price and terms are.
UPDATE: I just checked trainworld, they are taking orders, but do not have the undecorated models listed. I will shop elsewhere.
SeeYou190Well... this has been a frustrating 30 minutes. I decided to preorder the PA2/PB2 set, and my wife is on board, I need to get the pre-order in right away.
Have you considered ordering from another vendor besides direct from Rapido?
I've had good luck with Factory Direct Trains, Trainworld and Overland Hobbies among others. Some of those sites don't have the Rapido PA listed just yet but they should very soon.
Ok, I understand.
There is not any guarantee my wife will still be on board with this purchase even tomorrow, much less in May!
Kevin, the cut off for PA preorders is May?
I will preorder with a local dealer around here when I get my questions answered.
Well... this has been a frustrating 30 minutes. I decided to preorder the PA2/PB2 set, and my wife is on board, I need to get the pre-order in right away.
I went to Rapido's site and set up a new account.
I made it to the check out procedure, but I keep getting a message that there is an error and I need to re-enter my credit card account information.
I called Chase after the third failure, and they show no record of a transation attempted from Rapido, and no transactions have been denied by Chase.
I guess their system is glitching... maybe I will try again later.
I have asked Rapido a few questions that will determine if I am truly interested, more to follow.