Many of the younger modeler do not remember when motor/gear noise, along with the smell of ozone and hot oil was synomous with model trains. But that was the norm thru the 1950s till the late 1970s when Atlas teamed up with Kato for their drive in the yellow box era diesels. Be it brass or plastic, motor and gear noise was common, some worse that others. Even the top motors from the likes of Pittman, made right here in the USA, had noise and unstableness at slow speeds we take for granted today. But look thru a late 1950s or early 1960's model railroader and the common power on club layouts were diesels from Tenshodo, steam from Mantua, Bowser and various brass imports. ALL with open frame motors, straight cut(ie noisy) gearing. But it ran and ran fairly smooth for the day. Today we are fortunate and spoiled by the quiet running, smooth can and coreless motors. Modern gear production yields nearly silent drives in both steam and diesels, brass and plastic alike. Most open frames in todays world have weak magnets, causing them to run very hot, lack torque at low rpm's which creates even worse slow speed stablity and stalling. You can replace the magnet with ones from Micro Mark and this will restore the motor's power, lower the amp draw, but the motor noise will always remain. Some enjoy this noise, its part of our history and where we came from. Some want even smoother and quieter operation, so a remotor is the next step. My brass geared logging engines are noisy, mostly from their open frame motors. I will replace them once NWSL is back on its feet and restocks the smaller can motors I need. So many modelers talk down the older models for noise, high amp draw and cannot see how we tollerated that. But they seem to take for granted what we have today and how fortunate we are in todays modeling world. Here is a pic of my 1969 vintage NWSL Willamette Shay, genuine Pitman DC66 powered.
I even got the original paperwork for the motor with the model, interesting to see and rare to find.
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
Ode to the old Athearn blue box motor eh. I only see little squares where pictures are probably supposed to be. Maybe that photo host is blocked where I am although most work.
So, how far we have come? .... such as weak motors being reported in Intermountain and other manufacturers, reported as recently as this year. It seems the Chinese are not supplying good quality motors in some of the engines being manufactured there.
Maybe the title could be lifted from Lord of the Rings. There and Back Again, a Model Railroaderes tale!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Probably your work host blocking pics, try when you get home. Pics are of the Pittman in my brass Willamette Shay. Yes the Chinese have take a few steps backwards, undersize motors, poor diecasting(Zinc Pest). But overall, todays motors and drives are giant steps beyond what was the norm in the 50's thru even the early 80's with Athearn Blue box drives. While not really quiet, they were bomb proof and will still run well today with some proper servicing. I love the "There and back again!" Definatly rings true, sadly, of a few models in current production. Maybe thats what I prefer the vintage stuff, with all of its noise and smells while running! Mike the Aspie
I have a few United/PFM brass models with open frame motors, and they all still run fine decades after manufacture.
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My 0-8-0 is noisy, but the 2-6-2 and 4-6-2 are sweet runners.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 I have a few United/PFM brass models with open frame motors, and they all still run fine decades after manufacture. . My 0-8-0 is noisy, but the 2-6-2 and 4-6-2 are sweet runners. . -Kevin .
I can only second that!
My 45 year old Westside Model Co. HOn3 D&RGW T-12 4-6-0 has a Pittman open frame motor, which runs nice and quiet. It draws more amps than a new can motor, but that´s not an issue for me. Despite the fact the motor fills the entire cab, I see no reason to remotor the engine.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Yes, overall better. Hah hah, There and back again, sorta.
Athearn RTR went through a hit or miss period from around 2002 to 2008 or so, but got much better overall. I have a couple of Athearn RTR SD45's that remind me of KATO's.
I'm not an afficianado of the old stuff but there are a lot here who are and are sure to comment.
I'll bow out and leave this to the large nostalgia crowd here.
Next up? Ode to engine shells?
I just missed the era of learning to fine tune the open frames. I have seen some run as quiet as a can motor, others are much noiser. I am seeing what i can do to quiet down this Pittman. I do like the "made in the USA" part being I am a proud UAW member. Would an ode to engine shells be made up of fat bodies and molded on items? LMAO! There are genuine Pittman's, and are embosed as such, then you have the clones, made mostly in Japan and Korea. Mike the Aspie
emdmikeI am seeing what i can do to quiet down this Pittman
I lubed the motor bearings carefully and lapped the gears with a lapping compound, cleaned and greased them. That did the trick for me.
Should have clarified, I ment the open frame motor itself. I temporarly put a can motor there and its pretty quiet. That motor is to large to get the body back on, so the open frame was put back in place and gear mesh fine tuned. I think the motor brushes need to be run in to gain more of the contur of the communtator as that seems to be the bulk of the noise
riogrande5761 Next up? Ode to engine shells?
Jim,Good idea.. That discussion should cover the Hobbytown RS3 as well the Lindsay NW2 and Hobbyline FM10-44.
Back to topic..My United Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 still has its Pittman DC70 motor and runs quite smoothly with very little gear noise..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have had a couple of those ATSF 2-8-0's. All with DC70s in them. None really had gear noise, but some ran quieter than others with no reason to it. I vaguly remember reading an article years ago about profiling the motor brushes to a rounded contour to eliminate the noise from the flat brushes as they pass over the slots in the communtator. Lots of break in time will do this on its own, but there was a process to speed that along. I do polish the communtators on my motors, that helps some.
My very first Shay was a MDC kit. I did get it to run really well, but it was always noisy, even with the upgraded NWSL gears in it. Just the nature of the beast with the steep gear reduction in those models. The PFM/United brass ones are another story. Both of my 2 truck B2 Shays are very quiet for a Shay. both have Pittman brand motors in them. I am only keeping one of the two, the other will get sold to fund rolling stock purchases for my layout. The Canon CN22 will go in the Shay I am keeping. The speed consistancy around the loop is much more stable with the can motor vs the open frame. I find the open frames get a bit unstable at holding speed once they get warmed up. They will slow down for no good reason, then take off again with no change in the throttle knob position. Mike the Aspie
Actually, a Shay is an engine with a lot of gear noise - just listen to this:
How can any fan of trains not enjoy noise, smoke, and the smell of oil? Some of my old locomotives are as loud as my coffee grinder, amplified by the MDF of my layout subroadbed, but I like the noise--to me it sounds like the growls and pops of a locomotive. I have spent a lot of time lately trying to goose the most performance out of the open frame motors on my vintage brass electric locomotives, but my only concern with noise is friction that makes the loco less reliable, rather than excess sound.With a steady hand and regular maintenance, they can run well enough to be a regular part of the stable. And at least they run better than the older toy-train stuff that only ran at HO scale Mach 1.
After running those and switching to my Proto 2000 S1 for a while, which is quiet as the grave, I have to doublecheck to make sure it's running!