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Torn between scale sizes!

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Posted by khier on Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:11 AM

If cost is the primary concern, MRR in general is an expensive hobby. However, there costsare several possibilities to keep  the costs within limits.

First, you may choose a subject that doesn't involve a lot of rolling stock (a major cost factor), like a branch line ending in a forsaken village. You will have then a small commuter train, hence, a locomotive and four coaches is all what you need.

If you are not too picky about the prototypical accuracy you can find enough deals on the internet and, of course, the second hand world.

As for the choice of scale, pick up what your hands and eyes can handle. Big scales have a greater potential for detailing in general, while small scales save space and allow close to the prototype track geometry. Which is the ideal compromise is a purely personal aspect.

 

Regards

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:43 AM

dstarr
N is really too small to do much model building in.

Don´t let a chap named Magnus in this forum know you said that! There are many modellers able to prove you wrong!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by dstarr on Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:00 AM

steve-in-kville

The Z scale fascinates me, but the price/availablilty isn't the best. G Scale also fascinates me, but again not the most economical. I should just go with HO and be done with it.

If you were giving a beginner modeler advice, what scale would you recommend?

 

Depends what you like to do.  Me, I like to build models, my layout exists so I can see my models running, and it's a good place to photograph them.  HO is big enough for model building, kit building, scratch building, kit bashing, repainting, decaling.  Detail parts and supplies are readily available in HO.  N is really too small to do much model building in. 

On the other hand, a lot of folks like running trains, operations.  In which case, N gets you more railroad in your limited space.  Space is always limited, some of us have a higher limit than others, but we all have a space limit. 

   In 4 by 6 you can have 18 inch curves, most HO rolling stock can handle 18 inches.  Four axles diesels work, steamers as big as to Pacifics and Mikados work. 85 foot passenger cars don't work.  Athearn shorty passenger cars do work, and look decent.  I would run a view block from side to side and create two separate scenes, say a traffic generating industry on one side and a yard on the other side. The view block only has to be painted sky blue to look OK.  If your artistic abilities are strong you can paint clouds in the sky, or a whole backdrop scene.  Or buy some backdrop on paper rolls and go to town with them.  Have a deep river gorge somewhere with a mighty bridge carrying your mainline over it.  If you go with a single track mainline you want to fit in the longest passing sidings you can.  If you set your era back to the 1950's the freight cars are mostly 40 footers, where as by the 1990s you have a bunch of really big long freight cars that won't go around 18 inch curves. 

 

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Posted by Rastafarr on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:40 PM

Fine control is an issue for me as well. Not because of tremors or eyesight or any of that, but rather because of the big beefy sausage platters on the end of each wrist. I'm a builder, not a modeler, and would gladly switch to Fn3 if money, space, and availability weren't all factors. As things stand, i've settled into HO for all those reasons. I just won't post pictures of my fumbling attempts at modeling. Those are for my eyes only.

Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:58 PM

BRAKIE
Mel, As I mention I model with limited use of my right hand,my hands shakes.

.

I manage to model with serious damage to my right arm and hand. There are times when I have no ability for fine control and just need to walk away.

.

I can't do anything about it, so I need to just deal with it.

.

Pressing my two pinkie fingers together works better for regaining control than any other excersize I have tried. When I paint figures my two pinkies are always pressed into one another.

.

I have built layouts in both N and HO. I can tell you that HO is no easier when my problems are acting up.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by Outsailing86 on Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:36 PM

The fallacy of N-Gauge is that to make the small Locomotives and cars look more real, you need more scenery. In the end the Layout becomes as large as an HO Layout.

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:04 AM

BRAKIE

 

 
IRONROOSTER
While the selection is smaller than N or HO, you can do very nicely with RTR diesels and cars.

 

Paul,That S Helper Service SW1 a sweet looking engine that has turn my head more then once and its very temping to dump my remaining HO and go into S just because of that SW1.

 

Larry,

I have 2 of them.  And they are great engines.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by joe323 on Tuesday, October 29, 2019 6:30 AM

I am an HO modeler who is considering building a second layout as an N scale portable layout.  But before I do I am going to try and get some N scale  stuff at the swap meet this week to see if am comfotable working o it.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, October 29, 2019 3:57 AM

IRONROOSTER
While the selection is smaller than N or HO, you can do very nicely with RTR diesels and cars.

Paul,That S Helper Service SW1 a sweet looking engine that has turn my head more then once and its very temping to dump my remaining HO and go into S just because of that SW1.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Tuesday, October 29, 2019 12:42 AM

xboxtravis7992
S scale has significantly dropped behind in popularity, but those who are willing to put in the work to scratchbuild and kitbash a lot of of stuff all swear its super rewarding.

There is quite a lot of RTR available, except for steam.  While the selection is smaller than N or HO, you can do very nicely with RTR diesels and cars.  Thanks to the technology, many laser kit manufacturers offer S scale versions of their structures.

So while scratchbuilding and kitbashing can be fun, it's not a necessity.

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by Autonerd on Monday, October 28, 2019 11:29 PM

I'm in HO out of habit, but the older I get, the smaller those models become. I can see the appeal of On30!!!

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, October 28, 2019 8:53 PM

RR_Mel
ou might do well working on N but not all of us are able to do tiny stuff well. I had double cataract surgery last February and before the surgery I was having problems find my tools on the work bench, could have done OK with G. After the surgery I can do Z but Arthritis has dinged the feeling in my finger tips so even though I can see almost perfect without glasses it’s still difficult working on HO

Mel, As I mention I model with limited use of my right hand,my hands shakes.

Nothing changed all that much as far as using my glasses or optivisor  between  N and HO except my left eye is begining to show  signs of a  cataract.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by BRAKIE on Monday, October 28, 2019 8:42 PM

Water Level Route
Must be some new technology in N scale that prevents deterioration of eyesight, hand steadiness, and coordination. Incredible.

Mike,Nothing like that at all.. It's called the used of eye glasses and yup,just like HO optivisors. 

The same coordination and hand steadiness is needed in HO modeling as well that's why some chose a larger scale or quits the hobby.

There's a lot of myths surrounding N Scale and HO modeling as you grow older.  I've  been modeling in  N and later HO with no use of my right hand then four years later I gained limited use of my right hand since  I had my heart attack in 2005.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, October 28, 2019 7:56 PM

Tinplate Toddler
Here is my scratchbuild freelanced 0-4-0T tramway engine, built of styrene sheet stock, detail parts and a Kato chassis.

One of my projects still stuck in the pipeline is a 18" by 30" micro layout.

 

 
Until you mentioned scratch-built, I seriously thought that thing was factory made.  Nice job!
 
I've started a couple kids out on HO.  The trains are durable and easy for them to handle without taking up too much space, and they cost less than other scales.  The kids have other interests now at this point, but I at least know they have some good trains in case they ever decide to get them back out.  If I were giving advice, I'd almost always recommend HO, but if someone wants them bigger or smaller, I have enough knowledge to recommend some good starting points for the other scales too.

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, October 28, 2019 7:29 PM

xboxtravis7992
On30 is O-scale but gauged to run on HO scale track, meaning that if you can fit a basic HO layout; you can scale up the buildings and structures to loosely model either 2' or 3' gauged railroads.

Don´t underestimated the footprint of O scale buildings! They require roughly 4 times as much space as HO scale buildings. I gave up on my On30 layout I started a few years ago for that reason!

xboxtravis7992
HOn3 is a prototypical true version of 3' gauge track in HO scale. Yes, its limited to mostly Rio Grande stuff right now; but HOn3 would allow you to use HO scale figures and structures with much smaller trains and tighter curves. Of course there are other HO narrow gauge variants, HOe (also on N scale track) and HOm (HOm representing the meter gauge railroads of Switzerland, New Zealand or South America).

You are talking serious money here! There is only one supplier for HOn3 engines and rolling stock, which is very pricey. The only alternative is used brass which is not always easy to come by and not a bargain either. European narrow gauge - well, there are plenty of manufacturers , but when it comes to pricing, they will give you a new definition of expensive! Btw, New Zealand railways are not metre gauge, but 3 1/2ft. gauge.

xboxtravis7992
OO9 is an emerging scale in Britain

Not at all emerging - it has been around for decades, but only recently, Bachmann, Peco and others have started to market RTR stock for this scale. It is still mainly a scratchbuilder´s scale. I am a big fan of it!

Here is my scratchbuild freelanced 0-4-0T tramway engine, built of styrene sheet stock, detail parts and a Kato chassis.

One of my projects still stuck in the pipeline is a 18" by 30" micro layout.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Monday, October 28, 2019 4:47 PM

HO is my favorite scale, due to availbility and pricing alone. But space-wise it isn't the most economic. Once you start considering how to fit in a layout with 35" radius curves to make sure your long cars look realistic, it starts showing its weakness. N scale is the other recommendation, since being the second most popular scale behind HO, it has a good market and fanbase. S scale has significantly dropped behind in popularity, but those who are willing to put in the work to scratchbuild and kitbash a lot of of stuff all swear its super rewarding. O scale is really great if you want to do like Proto48 stuff and super detail a small scene, but not well suited for any sort of compact layout building. 

I will point to some alternatives if your in love with some larger scales but want to save space. On30, OO9 and HOn3 are a series of different Narrow Gauge scales. On30 is O-scale but gauged to run on HO scale track, meaning that if you can fit a basic HO layout; you can scale up the buildings and structures to loosely model either 2' or 3' gauged railroads. On3 and On2 are the true gauge versions of 3' and 2' gauge railroads in O respectively, but not as popular as the On30 stuff.

HOn3 is a prototypical true version of 3' gauge track in HO scale. Yes, its limited to mostly Rio Grande stuff right now; but HOn3 would allow you to use HO scale figures and structures with much smaller trains and tighter curves. Of course there are other HO narrow gauge variants, HOe (also on N scale track) and HOm (HOm representing the meter gauge railroads of Switzerland, New Zealand or South America). 

OO9 is an emerging scale in Britain; using OO scale structures and figures, with small narrow gauge engines on N scale track representing the 2' gauge or smaller narrow gauge systems in Britain. Bachmann has been releasing some neat stuff for OO9 making it a good time to jump in, if your willing to pay the export fees to ship it to you. I have seriously flirted with the idea of making a small portable layout featuring some of the OO9 stuff since its such a neat direction the hobby has taken, and I am really impressed by what I see Bachmann's European division doing with the idea. 

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, October 28, 2019 4:34 PM

steve-in-kville
My layout will most likely be on a sheet of good plywood that can be moved as needed. I don't want to go above 4' x 6'. I also have children of various ages that enjoy railroads, if that helps. Era wise, most likely modern freight although I have a soft spot for the Budd DRC's.

 
I wonder when you said G gauge if you maybe were thinking of some other scale? G gauge is big. BIG. An full-scale RDC in 1:29 scale (most common scale used on "G" 1-3/4" track gauge in the US) would be nearly 3' long. That won't work on a 4' by 6' layout!
 
At the time I chose HO back in 1988, N scale stuff didn't run that well. If I had to start over now, I'd probably choose N. Detail and reliablity have greatly improved. (I'd still use Kato Unitrack of course.)
 
If you don't want to do N or Z because you can't see it, go to the glasses store and order a pair of "computer glasses". They're designed for those of us who have crossed over into "Biofocal land", and have a large area that focuses from about 1' to 3' - just right for model railroading.
Stix
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Posted by csxns on Monday, October 28, 2019 4:30 PM

Back when i got that first Tyco "The Switcher Freight" and had it set up on the floor at Christmas break and somebody in the family said now that train set looks like a real train that is why i stuck with HO.

Russell

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 28, 2019 3:47 PM

BRAKIE

 

 
RR_Mel
Age makes a huge difference. The ability to work on smaller items can limit your fun and fun is extremely important in modeling anything.

 

Mel,You do realize there are senior age modelers in  N Scale correct?  That old age barrier is a myth as old as N Scale..

 

That may well be, but I decided it was too small for me at age 19 working in the hobby shop.......

Now at 62, no way. 

Sheldon

    

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Posted by tstage on Monday, October 28, 2019 3:30 PM

As an NYC modeler, Ulrich...I'll pretend I didn't see that railroad. Smile, Wink & Grin

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, October 28, 2019 3:26 PM

Not bad, either!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by tstage on Monday, October 28, 2019 3:14 PM

Tinplate Toddler

 

tstage
While I've seen some N-scale steam, HO has way more available and the detailing is better because of the larger size.

While not US prototype, it just exemplifies what is possible today, without having to rob a bank. The little steamer sell for $80.

I was strictly speaking of US prototypes, Ulrich.  However, that is indeed one handsome little beast and nicely detailed. Stick out tongue

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, October 28, 2019 2:59 PM

I never owned N scale stuff, but I had a 4 X 6 HO scale layout prior to my current shelf layout. One thing I can say is that anyone interested in operations should probably consider N scale for anything 4 feet wide. There is only so much you can do with a 4 X 6 or 4 X 8 HO layout when it comes to an interesting train plan for operations.

Simon

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, October 28, 2019 2:56 PM

tstage
While I've seen some N-scale steam, HO has way more available and the detailing is better because of the larger size.

N scale has come a long way in terms of detail on steam engines in the last few years. Just look at this beauty from Kato Japan:

While not US prototype, it just exemplifies what is possible today, without having to rob a bank. The little steamer sells for about $90.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by tstage on Monday, October 28, 2019 2:19 PM

rrinker

N Scale...Everythign you could want, across many era, is available.

                                  --Randy

That may be for diesel, Randy, but not steam.  While I've seen some N-scale steam, HO has way more available and the detailing is better because of the larger size.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, October 28, 2019 1:14 PM

BRAKIE

 

 
RR_Mel
Age makes a huge difference. The ability to work on smaller items can limit your fun and fun is extremely important in modeling anything.

 

Mel,You do realize there are senior age modelers in  N Scale correct?  That old age barrier is a myth as old as N Scale..

 

Larry
 
You might do well working on N but not all of us are able to do tiny stuff well. Sad
 
I had double cataract surgery last February and before the surgery I was having problems find my tools on the work bench, could have done OK with G.  After the surgery I can do Z but Arthritis has dinged the feeling in my finger tips so even though I can see almost perfect without glasses it’s still difficult working on HO.Smile
 
I wasn’t knocking N, if one can work on tiny stuff more power to you.  Had there been an N scale SP Cab Forward available 50 or 60 years ago I might be modeling N scale with dinged fingers now.
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by rrinker on Monday, October 28, 2019 12:48 PM

 It's a myth that N scale ODAY, and for more than 30 years now, doesn;t run well. However, before the advent of all those wonderful Atlas/Kato models, there were very few really good running N scale locos - I was in N scale for a number of years, mostly because of space contraints. Frustration finally drove me back to HO - the straw that broke the camel's back was probbaly the Bachmann Northern I got, I wanted one for a long time, was able to save up and buy it, and out of the box, it was a worthless (non)runner. The now ancient Aurora/Trix Lil' Donkey 0-6-0, bent stack and paint chippin off, ran much better. Even on straight track, although I also had >20" radius curves on my layout as well. Fed up, I cleared off and then stored what was probably the msot complete layout I have ever built, first one I built using modern scenery materials like ground foam, etc., and went back to HO. A month or so later in MR was the first review of the first Atlas/Kato RS which praised the fine runnign qualities, but it was already too late, I was done with N. 

 Ever since then - N scale is every bit as good as HO, as long as you compare apples to apples. They rarely run at Mach 1 any more, and they can crawl from tie to tie with the best HO locos. Everythign you could want, across many era, is available. I COULD replicate what I have in HO, but I have too much to change scales again, but could I ever have a great railroad in my space if I went to N scale....

                                  --Randy

 


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Posted by SPSOT fan on Monday, October 28, 2019 12:15 PM

I went with to N scale from HO a few years ago and haven’t regretted it! I fit so much more in the same space. I actually find it to be equal or less in cost compared to HO. The only sacrifice is a slightly lower amount of detail, just a bit more of a prevalent of molded on parts, but on newer models that is less of the case and you can hardly see those things in N scale.

If you are getting into N scale I highly recommend looking to get some older Micro Trains cars. They can be found for less than $10/piece, and have satisfactory detail. They are kind of like the Athearn Blue Box of N scale but with better detail!

Good luck and have fun, which ever way you go!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, October 28, 2019 12:12 PM

Water Level Route
Must be some new technology in N scale that prevents deterioration of eyesight, hand steadiness, and coordination. Incredible.

N scale handles as well as HO scale, as long as you don´t intend to scratchbuild engines, rolling stock or even buildings. It´s one of those never dying myths that N scale is for younger folks only, just like Nnscale is not very well suited for switching operation. There are quite a few older folks in here able to bust these myths.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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