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How Close to the Edge?

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Posted by robert sylvester on Friday, August 30, 2019 1:55 PM

Dunce Fortunately my layout is somewhat reversed when it comes running it close to the edge. When you run trains you are in the center of the layout and the trains run around you.

101-2397.jpg

So the train are running against the backdrop which protect them from taking a nose dive to the floor.

101-2796.jpg

Here's an example, you can see the back drop which runs on the outside of the layout, but it does stop and there is some bare track pretty close to the edge.

101-2795.jpg

Here is an example of an ICG engine running right next to the back drop, keeps it safely on the table.

101-2801.jpg

And it's pretty much the same all around. The new layout will have a backdrop all the way around but when the loops turn towards the center it becomes a different story, then the train will be running next to the edge.

101-2666.jpg

There are two areas where the trains run close to the edge, but as Dr. Wayne suggest, we don't run at slot car speeds.

There is the causway that curves at the edge but turns, thus taking it out of harms way, again, my trains run slowly, thus the chances of a train traveling through space to the floor are pretty slim

.101-2659.jpg

You can see the edge here but trains only run at about 10MPH, strict regulations here, never had a accident.

That's how close we are to the edge, but we do so safely. Looking forward to building the new layout, much larger and more space, yet the inside of the horse shoe will have track just three inches from the edge.

Thanks,

Robert Sylvester

Newberry-Columbia Line, SC

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Posted by PRR8259 on Friday, August 30, 2019 1:31 PM

As one who has seen expensive models hit the floor and be destroyed, on other people's layouts, I allowed a reasonable distance all the way around so that a derailment does not send models to the floor.  For me, that distance is 3 to 4 inches, and in more than 10 years, no item of rolling stock has hit my floor.

Maybe some on here don't care about what happens to their equipment, but I have a limited number of expensive (to me) models which would be nearly impossible to replace.  In my original design, I wasn't sure that I'd own anything like that, but I provided space anyway just in case.

I also built curves and tunnels that can accommodate anything including double stacks and articulateds, because my friends would want to run them if I didn't.

Through careful testing, I got away with Kato 26.375" radius curves through curved but generous clearance tunnels.  Double stacks, Big Boys, EM-1's, 4-12-2's, 2-10-4's:  they all fit without speed restrictions.

John

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Posted by RevRikHO on Thursday, August 29, 2019 8:16 AM

My layout is a 2' wide shelf around the walls. To keep my curves wide my track is set back over a foot from the edge. This allows me to have spurs and sidings on either side of the track. In one place I have a spur that is 3" from the edge, but there is a team loading dock between the rail and the edge. I also use shrub scenery close to the edge of the layout for aesthetic purposes.

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Posted by carl425 on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 2:30 PM

Overmod
If you like Alan Parsons, you should ask Alexa to find you Refugee, and something from the Patrick Moraz album "The Story of I" (which is actually one of those characters like Prince's 'new name' that would otherwise be unpronounceable).  You might also like at least one or two of the tracks on the Yes album 'Relayer'.

That's like saying "if you like Mozart, you'll like Stravinsky".

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:24 PM

 One or two tracks? There's only 3 LOL. To Be Over is definitely worth a listen. Great harmonies, completely understandable and meaningful lyrics. I've seen Jon twice solo now in the past year, such a wonderful show, with a great backing band who is truly into performing.

 

Seems a waste to carpet areas where people don't walk or stand. And that may just mean the loco doesn't break as much. I do plan to put carpet tiles in the aisles, I can't stand for long period on a cement floor and I doubt very many other can either, or at least enjoy it.  But I have to be far from the only one who gets trains moving as soon as possible - part of my process as much as impatience, to thoroughly test all track work before moving on.

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 11:10 AM

riogrande5761
Only Yes songs I know were a few that were popular on the radio.  Never bought any Yes albums so radio play is all I know, which ain't many. Too many groups and not into them all.

If you like Alan Parsons, you should ask Alexa to find you Refugee, and something from the Patrick Moraz album "The Story of I" (which is actually one of those characters like Prince's 'new name' that would otherwise be unpronounceable).  You might also like at least one or two of the tracks on the Yes album 'Relayer'.  (Caution: listen to Olias of Sunhillow only at your own risk!)

Once you get past the reedy voice singing nonsense lyrics, there is quite a bit of good in Yes, but it can be an acquired taste.

Music's a lot like model railroading: there are many flavors, you like what you like, and somebody else's "wrong" may not apply to you.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:59 AM

Overmod
rrinker What, no Yes fans here?

Only Yes songs I know were a few that were popular on the radio.  Never bought any Yes albums so radio play is all I know, which ain't many.

Too many groups and not into them all.  I cut my teeth more on 70's releases from Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, ELO, Steve Miller and Alan Parsons Project.

In fact with Alexa in the basement I've been listening to a most of the Alan Parsons Project albums (expanded editions) while doing finishing work.

Speaking of basement finishing, the basement bathroom is coming along; wife has the tile skills - plans to do the floor this weekend.

Once bathroom done, can move onto the basement floor, the last major project to get it finished over a ten month period using weekends and a few days off.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:17 AM

carl425
 
Doughless
How about stayin-alive technology?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 10:05 AM

rrinker
What, no Yes fans here?

Not right away... Not right away.  (Plenty of people tried right away, too, which makes it even stranger...)

All these posts and no mention so far, that I can see, of what I think is the Best Right Answer: fix the floor, not all the various accident-prone approaches to it.  Cut up some of those kitchen floor mats and if desirable put carpeting over them.  Helps in those long operating sessions, too.  

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Posted by carl425 on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 11:11 AM

Doughless
How about stayin-alive technology?

I'd hate to hear the loco that implemented that.

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 11:02 AM

carl425

 

 
Drumguy
my apologies to the OP for continuing to hijack this post.

 

You know the thread has been successfully hijacked when you see Doughless's comment about "keep-alive" and try to remember what Yes song mentions anything close to "keep alive".  ...Maybe he's confused and is thinking about the Bee Gees.

 

That would be "Stayin-Alive", wouldn't it?

How about stayin-alive technology?

- Douglas

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 9:18 AM

 Well of course the various names are actual trademarks of various DCC manufacturers, so for the Bee Gees it would of course be the Stay(in) Alive.

Then there's this bit (ok technically ABWH):

And when the history of science

Re-writes itself each day

We are living in days of wonder Simon says

So wonderful true believer

So wonderful I'm alive

Just take this world of life

Each day at a time

(You know you are a true Yes fan when you can pick out all the Yes song title references in the previous section of this song)

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by carl425 on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 9:08 AM

Drumguy
my apologies to the OP for continuing to hijack this post.

You know the thread has been successfully hijacked when you see Doughless's comment about "keep-alive" and try to remember what Yes song mentions anything close to "keep alive".  ...Maybe he's confused and is thinking about the Bee Gees.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:46 AM

Drumguy

Randy: There’s plenty of Yes and Rush references in place or waiting to be built. Anderson & Howe Topographic Maps; Squire Fishing Boats; Bruford Drum Brakes; T. Sawyer and Co.; Lerxt, Dirk & Pratt (not sure what they are yet, but don’t need a law office on my layout); The Wakeman Hotel; and Science Rocket Brewing will have wall size posters for Starship Trooper Ale. I’m sure I’ll think of more. The Siberian Khatru is a great name for a passenger train!

And my apologies to the OP for continuing to hijack this post.

 

I am leaning more towards a prototype, so I sort of have to keep that to a minimum. Will have to do to play Yes while working on it. Though I do have some things I will be putting in to remember family members, like Walt's Cafe for my Uncle. Have to see if I can scratchbuild a reasonable replica of the house I grew up in, even though it was 40 miles from here. I suppose I can sneak a law firm in there, in town somewhere, maybe next tot he cafe. Considering I said since day 1 the name sounded more like a law firm than a music group. Beats the overused Dewey, Cheatum & Howe nyuck nyuck nyuck

 Then again, no one says you are limited to one layout, either...

And on further thought, Heart of the Sunrise should be the opposite direction passenger train. Or maybe the morning run. 

                                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:37 AM

doctorwayne

 

 
rrinker
Yes but when the keep alive keeps the loco running for 6 feet or more after the power is cut - that's a LOT of track to kill when removing the liftout.....

 

You're right about that, Randy.  I could, however, on my DC-powered layout, which is basically wired as a single block, have the removal of the lift-outs kill the entire layout. 
I did, in another thread, I think, describe how a train did make it to the area of the not-in-place liftout, with the expected consequences.  That's because I didn't bother to add that kill-the-power-at-the-lift-out feature to this layout. Bang HeadWhistling

Wayne

  Bang Head

 

 

 Well, there is always that - can do the same in DCC really, just have the lift bridge trip a contact that activates a relay cutting the power to either the entire layout or at least the section around the lift out that all comes from the same boooster., if multiple boosters are employed. Still doesn;t solve the keep alive issue, but if the whole layout, or at least more of it than the longest train, are dead, you're about as safe as you're gonna get.

                                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by kenben on Monday, August 26, 2019 11:13 PM

Drumguy (Iʻm also a drummer since age 7), you just gave me a bunch of new ideas on naming stuff on my RR. Also a big YES fan. Seen they many times.

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Posted by Drumguy on Monday, August 26, 2019 9:25 PM

Randy: There’s plenty of Yes and Rush references in place or waiting to be built. Anderson & Howe Topographic Maps; Squire Fishing Boats; Bruford Drum Brakes; T. Sawyer and Co.; Lerxt, Dirk & Pratt (not sure what they are yet, but don’t need a law office on my layout); The Wakeman Hotel; and Science Rocket Brewing will have wall size posters for Starship Trooper Ale. I’m sure I’ll think of more. The Siberian Khatru is a great name for a passenger train!

And my apologies to the OP for continuing to hijack this post.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, August 26, 2019 7:14 PM

rrinker
Yes but when the keep alive keeps the loco running for 6 feet or more after the power is cut - that's a LOT of track to kill when removing the liftout.....

You're right about that, Randy.  I could, however, on my DC-powered layout, which is basically wired as a single block, have the removal of the lift-outs kill the entire layout. 
I did, in another thread, I think, describe how a train did make it to the area of the not-in-place liftout, with the expected consequences.  That's because I didn't bother to add that kill-the-power-at-the-lift-out feature to this layout. Bang HeadWhistling

Wayne

  Bang Head

 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 26, 2019 2:53 PM

 Yes but when the keep alive keeps the loco running for 6 feet or more after the power is cut - that's a LOT of track to kill when removing the liftout. With a non-keep alive DCC loco or a DC loco, they stop as soon as they get on the dead track.

 Of course, even if the locos DO stop dead, if you are backing the train towards the Gorge of Eternal Peril, you'll push all the train on the floor and then the locos will stop.   Or if you are running multiple units, they will keep going until the skidding of however many are past the cutoff gaps plus the weight of the train exceeds the ability of any units still under power to keep pushing. At which point they will sit there and grind U's in the rail. Almost certainly still better than shocing an expensive loco to the floor, but without a physical barrier as well as electricla cutoff, there's nothing foolproof.

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, August 26, 2019 11:34 AM

rrinker
....To protect gaps for liftouts and so forth, now you need to either set it up so that a DCC Stop signal is generated, or there is a soft physical barrier for the loco to run into. Or the 3 wire keep alives, programmed to limit the run time.

You can also wire the lift-out with a plug to energise it, but when unplugged, will also kill a length of track (as long as is necessary) on either side of the lift-out.
The sketch below shows the set-up, although I ended-up not using the 1" connector sections, instead including them as part of the lift-out....

Wayne

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 26, 2019 11:17 AM

 That's why I don't like'em. Haven't needed them yet, even up to #6 unpowered frogs. 6 inches? My little Walthers Plymouth switcher will run at least 6 FEET on my desk mat after lifting it off the rails if it was moving when I picked it up. If I have anything that actually NEEDS a keep alive, it will get a decoder that uses a 3 wire type, not a cheapy 2 wire one. At least with ESU decoders, with the 3 wire keep alives, you can set a CV that controls just how long it keeps going, rahter than just a generic "keep going until the cap is discharged". You only need a second or so of power to get over a dead frog or small dirty spot on the track - if your track is dirtier than that, clean it.

 To protect gaps for liftouts and so forth, now you need to either set it up so that a DCC Stop signal is generated, or there is a soft physical barrier for the loco to run into. Or the 3 wire keep alives, programmed to limit the run time.

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:29 AM

So how does current keep-alive technology impact this decision. 

Those locos keep running a long time after the signal from the track is cut.  Maybe they'll travel six inches on smooth terrain?

Or even worse, battery power.

- Douglas

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:45 PM

Drumguy

Some of you guys might get a kick out of this. Been trying to find a name for my entirley fictitious and non-protyoical layout, and my favorite band had named it for me in 1972. Sitting there right in front of me all along.

 

Oh the possibilities for scenic ideas, and town names. Don't forget the crack express passenger train, the Siberian Khatru. If you stray into solo albums, be sure to have the town of Sunhillow. Oh, and nothing runs on a schedule, it's all just Perpetual Change.

 I was hoping you'd find this thread.

                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by joe323 on Sunday, August 25, 2019 6:51 PM

BroadwayLion

 

 
Mister Mikado

What about that soft ping pong table netting?  Mount a running length of it just below the track edge all around the layout.  -Rob

 

 

 

 

That is exactly whaty they are doing in New York City. Putting netting under the elevated trains. Not that the trains would fall off, but enough tie plates, bolts lengths of steel and stuff like that fall off to damage parked cars ore even to impale moving cars.

 

ROARING !!!

 

Yes on the number 7 Flushing Line.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by Drumguy on Sunday, August 25, 2019 6:07 PM

 

 
Drumguy
Some of you guys might get a kick out of this.

 

Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

Like the herald design, and the weathering too.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

 

Thanks, Bear! This was actually my first loco weathering project. Its fairly quick and dirty, about 20 minutes of airbrishing on on each loco, and 10 minutes of random rust bits with a fine bristle brush. An insult to the true pros at this, but passes my personal 2 foot rule. Currently working on some Long Distance and Runaround F7 A-B sets with a pretty cool paint scheme. Hoping to get those done by mid-October.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, August 24, 2019 11:04 PM

Drumguy
Some of you guys might get a kick out of this.

Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

Like the herald design, and the weathering too.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by carl425 on Saturday, August 24, 2019 10:55 PM

Drumguy
Some of you guys might get a kick out of this.

Definately!  Good choice.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by Drumguy on Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:20 PM

Some of you guys might get a kick out of this. Been trying to find a name for my entirley fictitious and non-protyoical layout, and my favorite band had named it for me in 1972. Sitting there right in front of me all along.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, August 24, 2019 9:10 AM

How close to the edge can you get ???

 

ROARING

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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