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Mountain Scenery Question

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Mountain Scenery Question
Posted by kenben on Sunday, August 11, 2019 8:42 PM

Is there anything wrong with using molded packing styrofoam for molding hills and mountain sub-structures?  

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Posted by mlehman on Sunday, August 11, 2019 8:50 PM

Are you talking the stuff made of beads? It does get messy if you cut or shape it. It's also not generally as structurally stout as the pink or blue extruded styrofoam, depending on what it's molded into. So if you can stand the messiness, it can be used if properly supported.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, August 11, 2019 8:52 PM

I used Styrene foam packing blocks for all of my mountain base on my layout.  It’d incredibly strong and very light.  I covered the foam with Paper Mache but I wouldn’t recommend it, it shrinks about 5 to 8% as it dries.
 
Plaster of Paris works very good as a cover as does Sculptamold, neither skrink.
 
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by kenben on Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:02 PM

Beads? Yeah, probably. It does get messy. Itʻs just that I have a ton of this stuff. And I want to keep my "messiness" down on my new layout. Where do I find the pink or blue extruded styrofoam? 

 

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Posted by kenben on Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:05 PM

I will be using Sculpamold. And who sells that?

THX

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:29 PM

I bought my Sculptamold at a local crafters supply store.
 
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, August 11, 2019 10:26 PM

kenben

... Where do I find the pink or blue extruded styrofoam? 

 

Home Depot sells it in 4' x 8' sheets at least up to 2" thickness.  They also sell 2' x 2' project sheets but I've only seen them in 1" thickness.  

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Posted by G Paine on Sunday, August 11, 2019 10:45 PM

kenben
I will be using Sculpamold. And who sells that?

Walthers stocks it; you can order it from any Walthers conected hobby shop.

https://www.walthers.com/search/mode/list?q=sculptamold

MB Klein / Model Train Stuff also has it

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/search?search_query_adv=sculptamold

 

George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch 

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Posted by kenben on Monday, August 12, 2019 12:09 AM

Thanks for the sources. Iʻll check my local Home Depot since thats where Iʻll be getting all my lumber for the benchwork.

 

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Posted by kenben on Monday, August 12, 2019 12:23 AM

My Home Depot has plenty of R-7.7 Rigid Foam Insulation boards.

Question #2: 1/2" or 3/4" 4x8 plywood for my sub-roadbed? Scale is HO.

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, August 12, 2019 6:07 AM

I used ½” for my 10’ x 14’ layout and ¼” to make my helix.
 
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 12, 2019 7:01 AM

An alternative to using foam, which requires you fill the volume of the mountain, is cardboard strips connected with hot glue and a basic frame work to hold it up.

I went a little dense on the cardboard - you don't have to.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by York1 on Monday, August 12, 2019 7:57 AM

I used the pink foam for my mountains -- easy and fast.  I bought a 4' X 8' X 1"  sheet at Menards for $18 on sale.

I don't live near any hobby stores, so I ordered Sculptamold from Walmart.  It took two days, but shipping was free if I picked it up from the store.

I'm fairly new to railroading, but I'm sold on Sculptamold.  It's easy, dries quickly, dries hard, can be sanded and shaped, and dries very lightweight.

York1 John       

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 12, 2019 9:05 AM

Nice thing about cardboard strips is they are basically free since you can cut up boxes.  The hot glue is a few bucks for a bag full of them.  Very little mess that you would have carving away the foam that cost $18 a sheet on sale.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, August 12, 2019 9:17 AM

riogrande5761

An alternative to using foam, which requires you fill the volume of the mountain, is cardboard strips connected with hot glue and a basic frame work to hold it up.

I went a little dense on the cardboard - you don't have to.

 

 

I see that. I tried similar once. I have tried using paper mache over it but as that dries it lifts up and snags the trains. You should keep your mountains well back from the trains. Let us assume that there is a service road next ro the tracks on the mountain side.

Yes, paper mache cracks, but you are going to be putting ground cover over that so the point is moot.


ROAR

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, August 12, 2019 9:34 AM

BroadwayLion
I see that. I tried similar once. I have tried using paper mache over it but as that dries it lifts up and snags the trains. You should keep your mountains well back from the trains. Let us assume that there is a service road next ro the tracks on the mountain side.

Whether you use foam (more expensive) to create the landscape morphology or cardboard strips, you still need to cover it with something.

I used plaster cloth and if you by it on Amazon, you can get it a lot cheaper than what the model train scenery companies charge.  It doesn't curl up.   An easy way to apply it is to use a paint pan, like you use with paint rollers, and fill it half full with water. Then you can dip the plaster cloth in and lift it, momentarily let it drip and then apply.

Minimal mess and it doesn't curl.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by eaglescout on Monday, August 12, 2019 9:52 AM

I use the blue or pink styrene foam as many have stated is less messy.  Another advantage is you can glue layers together.  However, if you have a tunnel going through the mountain I leave the first layers at top of tunnel unglued so the entire mountain top can be temporarily removed to access track work and derailment should they occur.

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 1:18 PM

In one of the old Kalmbach books (I can't remember which one, I would need to go through my stack), I kinda remember one author using bead foam as a support for rolling hills. He covered it with plastered towels/cloth, if I remember correctly. But I agree with the others, if you want to create mountains (vs. hills), you are better off using cardboard strips or blue foam. Plastic or wire mesh covered with plaster or plastered towels is another option.

Simon

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 3:33 PM

riogrande5761
Whether you use foam (more expensive) to create the landscape morphology or cardboard strips, you still need to cover it with something.

Say's who? I didn't cover my foam I just carved and painted.

 

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 4:16 PM

Gordon Odegard used white styrofoam bead-board when he built the legendary CLINCHFIELD railroad in N scale.

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The results were excellent. If you review old issues of Model Railroader that containednthis series, you can find the best instructions I have ever seen that were written for this material.

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I believe he used a Stanley Surform rasp to shape the hills and mountains. It must have made an amazing mess, but it cleaned up I am sure.

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If you have plenty, you sure could use it.

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-Kevin

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Posted by mobilman44 on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:28 PM

You might consider this approach..........

Cut the styrofoam (try a bread or other serrated knife) into the general forms of the hill/mountain/whatever you are wanting.  Then, get a large bowl and make a plaster soup in it.  Regular plaster will work great. You may want to add a little color (brown/grey/?) to it so chips won't show up as bright white later on.

Have a roll of good quality paper towels and submerge them one at a time in the "soup", and then drape them over the styrofoam base.  Let it set up, and then apply another coat of plaster impregnated towels over it.

When that sets up, then you can add regular plaster or "whatever" and build in the rock formations and details.

I've used this method on two sizeable layouts with (IMO) success.  

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by kenben on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 5:39 PM

Cardboard is old school but it has worked since the beginning of time. I want to keep the overall weight as low as possible as this will be moved a few times.

 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:11 PM

BATMAN
Say's who? I didn't cover my foam I just carved and painted.

Sez me because MOST photos of foam carved and painted look like foam carved and painted.  Probably because most do a rough job if carving and use other materials to cover the foam.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:51 PM

Plenty of ways to make mountains.  I use extra 2" foam stacked on top of each other. 

Another idea is stackng 2x4' long rectangular celing panels:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/USG-Ceilings-Radar-2-ft-x-4-ft-Lay-in-Ceiling-Tile-64-sq-ft-case-R2310/203628901

 

 

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Posted by jim81147 on Wednesday, August 14, 2019 12:38 AM
Brent , hard to believe that does not have plaster , sculptamold or something on it . Nice !!
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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, August 15, 2019 12:52 PM

kenben

I will be using Sculpamold. And who sells that?

THX

 

When I was still building lots of mountains, I just got Sculptamold in the 50 lb bag. I found the best price was generally through Dick Blick, which is an art supply outfit with stores across the country as well as a good online ordering system. They're quick, also, generally it arrived within a couple of days in a big burlap bag.

One big advantage I found with using pink or blue extruded styrofoam is that you can make most of your scenery removable. That's what I did on my Cascade Branch. This makes wiring and setting up turnout controls, etc very easy. For more on that, see my Cascade Branch thread.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx?page=1

Mike Lehman

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:02 PM

kenben

I will be using Sculpamold. And who sells that?

THX

 

Michaels craft store is one place I found it locally - you can get coupons as well. 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:07 PM

kenben

I will be using Sculpamold. And who sells that?

THX

 

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Around here Jo-Anne Fabrics ETC. is the most reliable supplier for Sculptamold.

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Sculptamold is made by AMACO, which stands for American Art Clay Company. The product is usually found in art supply stores.

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-Kevin

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:57 PM

Pink insulation foam and a Sculptamold cap has worked well for me. Just carve the foam, plop the Sculptamold plaster on top; let it dry a little bit so its workable then just go at it with a hobby knife. To paraphrase a quote from a Disney theme park book I read a while back "to carve a rock, think like a rock" and the results come out pretty good. Study some geology of the area and do some field trips to visit some rocks to get a grasp of what the shapes should be like.

In my opinion some older methods like paper-mache just don't look good. It makes the rock wall look less like a chunk of rock that has been eroded and broken over the years and more like a pile of wrinkly gooey slop just poured onto a mountain and left to dry. Plaster in its various forms has that hard look to it, and it chips apart very similar to real rock giving it a nice form. 

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Posted by mlehman on Thursday, August 15, 2019 4:50 PM

xboxtravis7992

Pink insulation foam and a Sculptamold cap has worked well for me. Just carve the foam, plop the Sculptamold plaster on top; let it dry a little bit so its workable then just go at it with a hobby knife.SNIP

...Plaster in its various forms has that hard look to it, and it chips apart very similar to real rock giving it a nice form. 

The longer I work with Sculptamold, the better in terms of making it looks like rocks as well as other landforms. It's just so easy.

However, I still use plaster when I want something detailed like real rock. I cast the "rock" separately in WS, or other custom molds. Then I cast plaster in them. Once dry, you just need to wet the backs, slap some Sculptamopld on them and embed them in the overall scene. There's some of that in my Cascade Branch thread.

If you leave a spot for them, you can do this over dry Sculptamold, but be sure and wet the surface of the dry to help the wet adhere. I like to blend the molded rocks in while the Sculptamold is still wet. Be aware if you're staining your rocks tha Sculptamold takes up stain differently than plaster, so don't get smudges of it on your castings. If you use paint, not such a big deal, but neatness pays off IMO regardless.

Finally, you can also cast rocks from Sculptamold in the same molds used for plaster rocks. It takes up fine detail and is much lighter, which can be a big factor on portable layouts.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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