I remember from back in the day visiting a hobby shop where they kept two open locomotives on display. One Athearn One Tyco so that everyone could see the difference in quality. Guess which locomotives he would not sell
Joe Staten Island West
BRAKIE,I used only BB engines for years
.
Back in the Athearn days there were many model railroaders that had only Athearn equipment on their layouts. It was reliable, available, looked good, was affordable, and had enough variety to meet their needs.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Limiting yourself to one brand is like eating one type of food all the time. I choose my models based on what my layout needs (I'm modern era and like to model what I see when I railfan, so that guides me on the types of trains I should or shouldn't buy). I have a couple of brands I generally avoid, but I'm open-minded enough to accept if a certain manufacturer I usually don't like has done a good job on a model.
SPSOT fanGoing back to the OP's question you can't only use one brand, and some brands are better than others in some areas, it just depends what you want in your models!
Isaac,I used only BB engines for years and in the last time I as in N Scale I use only Atlas engine so,yes,it's possible to use one brand of engines..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
SPSOT fan ATLANTIC CENTRAL You are correct that each piece should be evaluated separately. The problem with saying that Rapido is "better" than Bachmann is that "better" is subjective. Well I supose I should have worded the differently... My experience with Bachmann is mixed, I have one engine (an HO 70 tonner) that causes me nothing but trouble. I though Bachmann was no good. Then recently I got another engine (an N scale Doodlebug) that has thus far performed fine. And both of them are older models. I've next to no evperience with more recent Bachmann, though when I see their adds I feel the detail does not match the price as other manufacturers do... Rapido on the other hand seams to have a consistently high level of detail and quality from what I've seen. I can't however comment on there motor performance and such as I have never actually had one. For that reason perhaps that comparison was not great. Anyway my intended point was that there are definate brands/lines with better quality. Perhaps Athearn Roundhouse VS Athearn Genesis is a better comparison, even Athearn would agree Genesis is higher! Still as many others have said it's all perspective and experience. That is why there are so many different ways people do things in the hobby. Going back to the OP's question you can't only use one brand, and some brands are better than others in some areas, it just depends what you want in your models!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You are correct that each piece should be evaluated separately. The problem with saying that Rapido is "better" than Bachmann is that "better" is subjective.
You are correct that each piece should be evaluated separately. The problem with saying that Rapido is "better" than Bachmann is that "better" is subjective.
Well I supose I should have worded the differently...
My experience with Bachmann is mixed, I have one engine (an HO 70 tonner) that causes me nothing but trouble. I though Bachmann was no good. Then recently I got another engine (an N scale Doodlebug) that has thus far performed fine. And both of them are older models. I've next to no evperience with more recent Bachmann, though when I see their adds I feel the detail does not match the price as other manufacturers do...
Rapido on the other hand seams to have a consistently high level of detail and quality from what I've seen. I can't however comment on there motor performance and such as I have never actually had one.
For that reason perhaps that comparison was not great. Anyway my intended point was that there are definate brands/lines with better quality. Perhaps Athearn Roundhouse VS Athearn Genesis is a better comparison, even Athearn would agree Genesis is higher!
Still as many others have said it's all perspective and experience. That is why there are so many different ways people do things in the hobby. Going back to the OP's question you can't only use one brand, and some brands are better than others in some areas, it just depends what you want in your models!
Keep these facts in mind when thinking about Bachmann:
They make entry level, mid grade and high end models, where as Rapido is only making top line high end suff. You do have to learn and decide which Bachmann models are acceptable to you.
You cannot pay attention to published retail prices, Rapido will only be discounted about 20%, Bachmann will be discounted 40% or more, making the "real" prices much lower.
Just 10-15 years ago Bachmann had a WIDE selection of highly detailed models in their Spectrum line, especially steam locos. Nearly all of these are well detailed and good runners, and they can still be found. Today those offering are a little slimmer, but items like their new Streamlined K4 are very nicely done.
Disclaimer - I run DC, I don't use DCC or onboard sound, none of my locos have decoders, if they came with decoders, they are gone now.
That said, if I listed my fleet of locos and the prices I paid, you might be amazed how "affordable" my fleet of 140 locos has been, the two most strongly represented brands are pre Walthers Proto2000 and Bachmann (mostly Spectrum steam).
I am more than happy with the running qualities of all these models.
Sheldon
They are NP sublettered BN. I don't run DCC either. Most of the time I don't spend that much in a month. They may be old but they run wonderfully.
FRRYKid(The two AMHs are a good example. I needed early 70s BN coal engines and I couldn't afford Rivarossi's new ones.
Have you looked on eBay? There is a seller called VRCHobbies who is unloading the DCC-ready version for $75 plus $12-or-so shipping. He still has a couple left in SCL:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_sac=1&_ssn=vrchobbies&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.Xrivarossi+u25c.TRS1&_nkw=rivarossi+u25c&_sacat=0
These are amazing locomotives, they run smoothly, weight a ton and will pull the moon out of orbit. I have three in PC (two with sound) and love them. I have an extra (L&N) I bought for a chassis swap that has an ESU decoder installed. I'm waiting for VRC to sell out so I can unload it at a halfway decent price. :)
EDIT: Oops, you said you needed BN. Rivarossi did make U28Cs in BN and U25Cs in Burlington. Well worth the money if you can find them.
I will put my in to this discussion. I have a bit of everything when it comes to maker. I have mostly Athearn BBs but I also have some pre-Walthers P2K locos (2 18s and a SW1200), a pair of very old AMH U25Cs, a Walthers SW1 switcher, and quite a few that I have kitbashed. (A GP30 and a fleet of GP20s on modified Athearn BB GP35 drives.). Don't limit yourself to one manufacturer. Depending on your budget or prototype, you never know what manufacturer will have what you need. (The two AMHs are a good example. I needed early 70s BN coal engines and I couldn't afford Rivarossi's new ones.)
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd the GRAVELY/ARIENS lawn mower factory makes the snow blowers for those supposedly "better" John Deere tractors.........
When I managed the department that sold snowblowers for Sears Canada in Peterborough, Ontario many years ago, the snowblowers were designed and built in the southeastern states. I'm not sure where they tested them. They did work quite well, but we never told the customers where they came from.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
DAVID FORTNEYAlthough i have been into trains for a long time and have dabbled in ho but now there seems to be so many great manufacters like Atlas, BLi, Mth, Scale trains , etc. is one better than the other. Who has the best sound, detail, quality, etc.
Whoever makes the loco you want is the best. :)
There's no reason not to buy from several manufacturers... the only downside is that mixing brands may make them hard to run locomotives together, until you master the dark magic of speed matching.
Bear in mind that most manufacturers buy in their sound decoders, so you'll likely find the same decoders in different brands. My Bachmann Sound Value FA-2s (don't laugh!) seem to have the same sound decoder as the Walthers Mainline PAs.
The problem with this is that two identical sound decoders sound, well, the same. Three of my FAs have sound, but together they sound like one loud locomotive. I thought I read that some manufacturers have a "phase shift" feature to avoid this but I haven't found it.
One way to avoid this is use a decoded that allows you to upload sound sets (Digitrax, ESU) and use different sound sets. Or mix and match decoders or prime movers. Or, for matched locos, save some $$ and run some with sound and some without.
For my money ESU LokSound sounds the best, but mostly because of the way the horn works -- you can get a shorter "short" blast than with Digitrax, for a nice Honk-honk-honk before backing up.
Aaron
I perfer Atlas Classic,Atlas /Kato,the older LL P2K and Athearn RTR. I have Athearn BB SW1500s,GP38-2/40-2,GP7 and a lone SW7. I also have a Bachmann Alco S4 with DCC/Sound, a Scale Trains SD40-2 and a BLI SW7 with DCC/sound. Of course I have Atlas/Roco S4s.
I also have some repowers a Gen/Kato GP7 and two Athearn/Kato GP40-2s
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
DAVID FORTNEYAlthough i have been into trains for a long time and have dabbled in ho but now there seems to be so many great manufacters like Atlas, BLi, Mth, Scale trains , etc. is one better than the other. Who has the best sound, detail, quality, etc. Dave
Well, I don't do sound or DCC, so I can't offer any advice on that.
However, I started in HO in the mid-'50s, and the only constant "best" for me, from that time up to present day, is Kadee couplers.
For everything else, I pick and choose, and mix or match, as suits my tastes and budget. I use track from five different manufacturers, rolling stock from dozens of manufacturers (from pre-mid-'50s to current day), and likewise for locomotives. Scenery products might be commercially available or from "found" sources, and while many of my structures are from Walthers, most have been modified. I pick what I want, and build, from scratch, what I need.
I have modified the older stuff enough that it doesn't look terribly out-of-place with the better-detailed newer items, because that's one of the things I enjoy doing. Standardisation is good for some things on your layout, but can be limiting, too. There's enough information available nowadays to permit you to sort through what is suitable for your needs and preferences, and what is not.
Wayne
Medina1128 richhotrain I have a rule of thumb that I live by when buying locomotives. ~ BLI for steam ~ Atlas for diesels ~ Intermountain for hard to find diesel roadnames ~ Athearn when all else fails ~ Bachmann when truly desperate ~ MTH, avoid at all costs ~ Proto 2000, mourn their loss Rich I was curious about your "mourn their loss" in regards to Proto 2000. Most of the locomotives I saw on Walthers website say "Discontinued when sold out". What did I miss? I was kind of out of the loop due to shoulder surgery for a while.
richhotrain I have a rule of thumb that I live by when buying locomotives. ~ BLI for steam ~ Atlas for diesels ~ Intermountain for hard to find diesel roadnames ~ Athearn when all else fails ~ Bachmann when truly desperate ~ MTH, avoid at all costs ~ Proto 2000, mourn their loss Rich
I have a rule of thumb that I live by when buying locomotives.
~ BLI for steam
~ Atlas for diesels
~ Intermountain for hard to find diesel roadnames
~ Athearn when all else fails
~ Bachmann when truly desperate
~ MTH, avoid at all costs
~ Proto 2000, mourn their loss
Rich
I was curious about your "mourn their loss" in regards to Proto 2000. Most of the locomotives I saw on Walthers website say "Discontinued when sold out". What did I miss? I was kind of out of the loop due to shoulder surgery for a while.
Alton Junction
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Someday I should write a comparison among GP38-2 seeing as I have 6 two Bachmann non-sound 2 sound value 1 Atlas with a Digitrax motor only DCC decoder and 1 MTH with sound. Various road names which can make comparing them hard.
If and when other manufacturers make geeps in a livery I want I will acquire them.
Not all track is the same. You may find difference in the height, which will require shimming between manufacturers, or slightly different rail profiles, which can make connecting pieces together awkward if one brand of rail joiner is too tight or too loose with dissimilar adjacent sections.
DCC is supposed to be the same from brand to brand, but not all MTH engines are true DCC, rather their proprietary system called DCS. Even their so-called compatible decoders can not be completely configured using DCC, and they do not sell DCS decoders separately. I have avoided MTH for these reasons, even though they have a couple of engines I wouldn't mind having.
I always replace couplers with Kadees anyway, and I replace any plastic wheelsets with Intermountain for performance reasons.
I have been running HO trains since the early 1960s. My engines have all deteriorated to uselessness, but my old rolling stock lives on. Old Tyco, Crown, Mantua and Barney still serves with Walthers Proto and others made today. I'm proud of the diversity of my layout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
SPSOT fanSome brands are simply better than others, I think few people will dispute that a Rapido locomotive is better than a Bachmann, but it's really best to approach it peice by peice, every manufacture has had bad and good products. Also bad to one person is okay to another.
The other thing to keep in mind re people's opinions is that some products have been around a long time. A Bachmann GP-30 from 30 years ago that someone disliked may not have been anywhere near as good an engine as one from the most recent production run of them.
I suppose a cynic might point out pretty much everything is made in China anyway, so it's kinda different brand names being produced in the same place or even the same factory....
If you perform any type of work on the loco, sticking with one brand provides a familiarty that can be useful.
I run only diesels, and the vast majority of them are Atlas, with many having QSI sound. Its nice to be able to have a set of CV settings that apply to all locomotives.
I freelance. I don't have to search for models of specific locos with specific roadname details, so favoring one brand does provide a level of familiarity and simplicity to the fleet.
- Douglas
SPSOT fan Other have given alot of great response, here's what I would recomend. Having a standard for somethings (i.e couplers) is very important to insure your layout runs smoothly. Other things you could standardize, but you don't need to, for example decoder brand or turnout and track. Other things standardizing would seriously limit what you can do with your layout, say using only one brand of rolling stock. I'd say it's helpful to look at what other use and what you find to be the best before picking one brand for things like decoders or track. Some brands are simply better than others, I think few people will dispute that a Rapido locomotive is better than a Bachmann, but it's really best to approach it peice by peice, every manufacture has had bad and good products. Also bad to one person is okay to another. In conclusion you need to decide for yourself what is better, but keeping to one brand for rolling stock/locomotives is very limiting.
Other have given alot of great response, here's what I would recomend.
Having a standard for somethings (i.e couplers) is very important to insure your layout runs smoothly. Other things you could standardize, but you don't need to, for example decoder brand or turnout and track. Other things standardizing would seriously limit what you can do with your layout, say using only one brand of rolling stock. I'd say it's helpful to look at what other use and what you find to be the best before picking one brand for things like decoders or track.
Some brands are simply better than others, I think few people will dispute that a Rapido locomotive is better than a Bachmann, but it's really best to approach it peice by peice, every manufacture has had bad and good products. Also bad to one person is okay to another.
In conclusion you need to decide for yourself what is better, but keeping to one brand for rolling stock/locomotives is very limiting.
Isaac,
Better in what way? Better sound? Better detail? Better running? Better price/value? Better balance of all factors?
And it does not matter how much "better" a brand is if they don't make what you want.......
I for one am not deciding what to have on my layout solely based on who makes it.........
I have seen Rapido stuff, it is very nice, shame they have yet to make ANYTHING on my want list.
But Bachmann has made a ton of stuff on my want list, and I have found it to mostly be of VERY suitable quality. I have a bunch of Bachmann. But then again I model 1954, the OP is interested in modern stuff mostly, so he might not find Bachmann (current or older Spectrum) or Rapido to have much he wants.
Remember, at least until a few years ago, a "Bachmann" (Kader) factory made Atlas.....all those same people who would agree with you that Rapido is better than Bachmann would say that Atlas is also better than Bachmann.
And the GRAVELY/ARIENS lawn mower factory makes the snow blowers for those supposedly "better" John Deere tractors.........
Sometimes "better" is only defined my more features and a high price, not actual higher quality of design or materials.
I would advise to do your research before you buy. I have about 35 locos, all of which have DCC. Some have sound and some not. One of my engines, an H15-44 has very unique indicator lights additional to the main headlamp. When I initially converted this engine to DCC, the digitrax decoder I purchased did everything it should, but did not provide CV programming for prototypical operation of these indicator lights. After doing some homework (which I should have done first) I found a TCS decoder that does everything the digitrax decoder did AND provide proper operational lighting... for less the cost of the digitrax. I was able to return the digitrax decoder to my hobby shop with no hassle, but it was extra time, frustration and effort on my part that could have been avoided. It's just like the old saying... "measure twice and cut once". Same idea, different application.
I say pick and choose.
Disclaimer: I know very little about DCC. Most of the time I'm running engines in plain DC mode.
The different manufacturers will surprise you. I like trying something from everybody. I have been pleasantly surprised by everybody, on one item or another.
You can solicit results, but even the folks on here do not agree with each other. That's life.
Some here hate MTH with a real passion, yet their engines do what they say they will do, run and light (and even smoke) very well. My best pulling engine, bar none, in service here happens to currently be the MTH SD70ACe. The only engine that can match or beat it in pulling power is the Proto 2000 SD70MAC, because it has lots of factory weight in it.
When I needed MTH warranty service, for me they were fantastic and very timely.
Athearn is also very good about sending parts if you need them, free of charge (often) if you explain it is an actual factory defect. They are fantastic about standing behind their product. Some others also are, but only a few are not (including unfortunately Walthers who no longer stocks parts).
I also have Overland brass diesels that will pull well, but because some of them might have issues with driveshaft ends coming loose, I don't overload mine with ridiculously heavy trains (like I might do with the less expensive plastic).
I have a curious kitty that bumps into trains--they need to be able to take a few light bumps from the kitty. That means I prefer metal handrails or Kato handrails. Others will have different success criteria than me.
John
Of course the thing with decoders and sound is that when factory equipped you get whatever the manufacturer chose to include. You can of course change these if you want (or buy DC and add them), but it's an expense and a hassle.
I am apparently very undemanding in this department because I find they all work well for me.
Paul
Dave,
When it comes to sound, everyone has their preferences and why. And some don't care for sound at all...and that's fine.
I enjoy sound but it's not a "must" for me. I'm more interested in motor-control. Sound I can always turn off if I choose and still enjoy operating my locomotives. A locomotive, however, that starts off at 5 sMPH on speed step 001 - especially switching - ruins the operating experience for me. Yes, really. I want my steamers or early diesels to crawl at 1 sMPH or less.
With that said, here are my choices (preferences) for sound decoders with additional comments (whys):
I love Loksound decoders. However, their American steam files are still pretty limited so I can't recommend them for that. I'm hoping with the release of the new Loksound 5 decoders that that will change.
Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders sound great but I prefer the motor-control of the Loksound and TCS decoders. (TCS is my go-to for motor-only decoders.) I've heard the Tsunami2 decoders have better motor-control than the original Tsunamis but I don't have personal experience with the newer ones.
Loksound and TCS have great motor-control right out of the box. Tsunamis generally need to be tweaked to get anything comparable.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Despite having some experiance with DCC, I am not a DCC sound user on my home layout, and nothing on my layout is a model of anything built after 1954. So I will only address your question about steam.
BLI is as good anyone regarding steam, are they better?, best? That depends on your views. Personally. I have had great success with older Bachmann Spectrum, but again, I don't run DCC or sound.
For me, BLI is too focused on big, rare, famous steam, not on "work a day", medium sized, ordinary steam to make a layout look realistic, your mileage may vary.
I have 7 BLI steamers, only four different loco types, I have 34 Bachmann steamers, covering nine different loco types. Overall, way fewer problems with Bachmann than with BLI.
But as many have said early in this thread, every company has winners and losers.
I do feel BLI is light on fine detail when compared to older Bachmann Spectrum or Proto steam.
Again you mileage may vary,
Thanks guys for all you advice and tips. Although i live on the east coast i really like west coast railroading especially the Union Pacific, southern pacific and westeren pacific. I also like the more modern era of railroding like the Sd70aces, ES44s and the like. is BLI that good for steam? I know Atlas is pretty good for the earlier era of diesels but how about the more modern era?
DCC and sound is a must for me so who has the best sound installed or what decoder has the best sound?
Or should i just stick to dc and use one those boxes to operate the sound?
sorry guys for all the questions but i need to know what to buy and the good and bad of what manufactures are doing.
So it is interesting how era and prototype effect these choices.
Given their selection, I would only have about 6 steam locos rather than 60 if I stayed with BLI and excluded Bachmann. And the track record for problems has shown BLI to not be superior.
Atlas makes great locos, but not nearly enough in my era, 1954, in which Proto2000 (pre Wathers) wins hands down. Atlas has also been more expensive and harder to find.
Intermountain and Athearn Genesis are my first choice for EMD F units. Other Athearn, pretty limited.
No Bachmann diesels except the switchers/specials, 44 tonner, 70 tonner, doodlebugs.
MTH, never in any life time.