riogrande5761....To me, the point of brass isn't to have a metal train car, but to have a train car that looks like the real thing. So in a way, this topic is pointless in that regard. Who cares if they are cheap if they are fantasy cars.
I agree, and I wouldn't spend the money on a brass passenger even if it matched its prototype and I were modelling that particular road. It's outside of my interests and my budget.Passenger trains are of some interest to me, but they're peripheral to freight operations on my layout.Working from a photo of the real car, I modified a Rivarossi coach...
...to represent a CNR Horse Express car....
....and while some minor dimensions might be off somewhat, the length and proportions are almost dead-on to that of the real ones. It's unlikely to ever be done in brass and cost less than ten bucks.
Wayne
robert sylvesterNot as detailed underneath but with my eyesight who cares.
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My opinnion on underside detail is it only needs to look good from scale-person height at trackside.
Most brass cars are good enough, but some need a little help here and there.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Interestingly enough, someone mentioned Balboa and Soho. I have been collecting mainly Balboa, not as much detail, but they are brass, Their paint jobs are good and they have grab irons and lighting with nicely done trucks.
These are two Balboa Penn coaches with Precision Scale diaphragms attatched to the ends to make a good join.
Not as detailed underneath but with my eyesight who cares. The cost is around $60-70, cheaper than some plastic coaches, and brass to boot.
Robert Sylvester
Newberry-Columbia, SC
trainnut1250Many of the old brass trucks don’t roll well.
Amen to that. One of my fellow club members, who has a few beautiful (and expensive) brass trains, pulls them off and uses them for freight car weights!
I consider myself the beneficiary of some of these falling prices. I'm sure there are several market forces in play here. Summer is generally a slow time for model RR sales. The realization that some of the younger generations of modelers just aren't interested in the "Classic Trains" era and many of the brass "collectors" are passing away leaving behind closets full of unused treasures probably have an effect, too.
Often, once I recieve the package, I'll dig under the foam in the box and find reciepts or notes from previous owners. I sometimes wonder what the history of these pieces were. Could have been a gift from a family member? Usually the reciept is from a hobby shop that is long gone. I'll look at Google Earth if there is an address just to get a feel for where my present "treasure" came from. Then I'm aware that in the not too distant future, someone else will be looking at these cars wondering why somebody wrote the date inside the car before closing it up (a habit I have) and hopefully the new owner will get some enjoyment out of the model. I couple cars I bought from one seller actually had someone's SSI number etched on the underside.
I agree that the Balboa stuff is ridiculous. Soho, Lambert and Oriental can be good if you do your homework. Challenger and NJ Custom then Overland and on up to The Coach Yard, Shoreham Shops, Railway Classics, W&R and a few others top off the list.
Just last week picked up a fourteen-car PRR Congressional Limited. I'm pretty sure Walthers or Rapido don't have plans for this train (yet?).
PRR_1952-Congressional by Edmund, on Flickr
These were imported by Challenger. Excellent detail, "some" interior partitions but no seats or tables. Still, for me the price was good and I have a decent-looking train to run behind a GG1. i was amazed at the trucks on these Congo cars. They roll beautifully!
In some cases where the trucks look crude or don't roll well I will modify the bolster and use a Walthers, or similar, replacement.
Other cars in my roster are cars that I doubt will be produced anytime soon by the mass-market builders. I have fun painting them when needed (hate doing the stripes, though).
PRR_D78c-4418 by Edmund, on Flickr
Erie_ten-hundred by Edmund, on Flickr
NKP_DL131 by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_9785_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
IMG_8227_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
The only "foobie" I did was using a former Santa Fe, Pecos River business car I made into a Big Four Business car. Again, the price was so reasonable I couldn't pass it up and, well, I can spin a little tale about how the Big Four's executive wanted to bring his favorite business car with him to his new assignment
Big4_business-car4 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
I have noticed lots of brass passenger cars on Ebay recently as well. In general, prices seem to be lower than in the past. I think this mainly due to the liquidation of collections from the first wave of brass buyers leaving the hobby.
From an operators stand point, I have never been a fan of brass passenger cars. They are usually very heavy, especially the older runs. Many of the old brass trucks don’t roll well. Some brass passenger cars I have need double heading to pull 3 of them on straight, level track!! Some of my buddies gut the shells and rebuild the interior and floor with plastic to make them light enough to use on the layout. I think when it comes to running them, rather than looking at them, plastic passenger cars have a huge advantage in regards to weight.
Jim, You have chosen one of the examples out there of foobie brass cars. I suspect that Truesdale (the owner of Westside Models) had some cars left over from a run of something that was prototypically correct for another road that he “repurposed” for the D&RGW. Notice how spare the label is and that it has D&RGW designation in quotes. I think he actually had a separate fantasy series of models that followed this idea of repurposing leftover runs.
I own several prototype specific brass passenger cars because they are unlikely to ever be offered in plastic. Most are riding on replacement trucks and they are some of the most finicky rolling stock on the layout.
YV Brass RPO super detailed. Really cool car but takes lots of power to pull.
Unpainted Beaver Creek passenger car set. Still on the workbench waiting to be painted. I removed most of the interior details to save some weight.
Both of these examples are of the older, less detailed brass models made in the 70s and early eighties. Coach Yard and others have surpassed these by quite a bit in terms of detail, but then again none of these cars cost more than $100.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I never cared about if a road had them because I have been told many times something was not done or someone never owned something (even by historic clubs), only to find out they did, sometimes the mistake is because they didn't own them long (got them along with others they wanted as part of a deal, or other) or they were set on a siding and basicaly forgotten (yes that has happened even though it is not soposed to).
SeeYou190And that would be one of the things that is driving down the prices of older brass passenger car models. They just did not match the prototype as well as current offerings. Like I said, if you are willing to live with the older brass passenger car shortcomings, there are some incredible bargains out there. If you demand accuracy and perfection, these models are not for you.
Like I said, if you are willing to live with the older brass passenger car shortcomings, there are some incredible bargains out there. If you demand accuracy and perfection, these models are not for you.
So here is the rub, if the brass car doesn't match the real thing, then why even buy it?
You might as well get a plastic foobie then for less, say a Walthers plastic passenger car painted for Rio Grande.
An incredible bargain in brass is no good to me if it doesn't look like a Rio Grande P-S passenger car, thank you and have a nice day!
I don't know if I can parse the last sentence and I don't want perfection but I do want a passenger car that looks like the real thing in the most fundemental ways.
Example, Walthers ran a 52 seat chair car - it is a good match to the D&RGW Prospector series P-S passenger cars. It has a letter board in the wrong place but otherwise looks like the real thing. Is it accurate? No, but it has a P-S roof, it has fluting in the right place, the skirting matches and the window placement matches. I bought two.
There are two sets of Westside brass 5 car passenger cars painted for D&RGW on ebay right now. None of the passenger cars look like real D&RGW passenger cars - they are totally fantasy. On is priced at $99 a real bargain! The other at $549m good luck to him! Even the paint job is a foobie - solid orange and should be silver below the windows.
To me, the point of brass isn't to have a metal train car, but to have a train car that looks like the real thing. So in a way, this topic is pointless in that regard. Who cares if they are cheap if they are fantasy cars.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 if the basic model matches the real things - but a lot of the older brass passenger cars labeled for D&RGW I've seen don't.
And that would be one of the things that is driving down the prices of older brass passenger car models. They just did not match the prototype as well as current offerings.
I need three very nice passenger trains for my layout. I currently have a heavyweight train and lightweight streamliner passenger train both with all Rivarossi models. My mail train is three brass baggage cars and two Branchline coaches pulled by a brass USRA 4-6-2.
I am not much of a passenger car fan. I might never upgrade the two trains with Rivarossi models. Time will tell.
SeeYou190 If you can live with only VERY GOOD detail, and are willing to add you own interiors and such, yes, there are good bargains to be had. -Kevin
If you can live with only VERY GOOD detail, and are willing to add you own interiors and such, yes, there are good bargains to be had.
I could live with very good detail if the basic model matches the real things - but a lot of the older brass passenger cars labeled for D&RGW I've seen don't.
Oh, and the Palace Car Company imports for the D&RGW Prospector imported in the mid-late 1980's still seem to go for a relatively high price, even un-painted. I ordered 3 around 1985, but due to a mix-up, didn't get them. They were $90 for the flat tops and $110 for the dome and business car. These still seem to go around 3 times that or more.
Brass passenger cars can be had cheap (very cheap) if you do not want the current standards.
Current brass models made by The Coach Yard are magnificent right down to the pattern on the china in the dining car. The menu might even be accurate.
The detail is astonishing.
This has driven DOWN the prices of everything that is not up to par with these amazing models.
Note, may of these models do not have window glazing from the factory, and that can be a formidable challenge for many modelers.
Enjoy!
Saw lots of brands, among them were Soho but these were painted with windows in ect.,not just shells. Also seen some Coach Yard.
Good point.
Were they, by chance, passenger cars by Balboa Models or Soho? They maybe brass shells with not much interior or undercarriage detailing.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
No clue, but I don't browse much brass - most of it is out of my budget. Wasn't there a topic on brass recently and how prices have dropped.
Some things run in cycles and of course depends on what your poison is. Certain brass demand may be down while some items maintain their value. Painted D&RGW Overland Cabooses seem to be holding their value, even unpainted. New painted Overland D&RGW Cabooses were selling around $220 around 15 years ago give or take. Division Point did a run around 12 years ago and I bought two at the price. I've been watching Overland D&RGW cabooses sell ranging from high $200 to over $400 in once case in the past 6-12 months.
But OTOH, I've also seen some undec brass Overland cabooses go for more attractive prices and unpainted for under $100. I picked up an unpainted brass Overland EV D&RGW caboose for $90 and an unpainted UP Overland (older release) CA-5/6 for also $90.
Was crusing e-bay and noticed a huge influx of brass passenger cars, many with no takers and many at prices very low, I was astounded. Is this just the latest hit to collectors of brass ? I have no intrest in collecting these but noticed when I was looking for what I do want (a T-boiler climax and a shop switcher in brass).