Any Way to Silence PFM United Santa Fe 2-8-0 with Coffee Grinder Gears?

[Trainman440]

Hi all!

I recently bought a United brass Santa Fe 2-8-0. They made hundreds of these engines. Mine is one of the later versions, with more detail, a brass bottom plate, and brake shoes. 

These engines were well known for their loud gears. I replaced my Open frame motor with a can motor. I also added grease. No help. 

Does anyone know of any replacement gears that can quite the engine down? I don't know much about gears(like, what is 0.5 Mod?) NWSL just closed their doors, so does anyone have any other sources?

Sounds a lot LIKE this one: https://youtu.be/5ZEfrx5CtuA (this is not my engine, but has a similar sound)

Thanks!

Charles

[BRAKIE]

Charles,My  United Models 1950 Class 2-8-0 still has its Pittman DC 70 motor and its fairly quite.

What you might want to try is cleaning and regreasing the drive gear and worm.

[Renegade1c]

Not sure it will work with brass gears but one trick is to clean out all the grease of hte gear box and use a cheap toothpaste that have the little grit pearls in it. Run it for an hour or two. Clean out the gear box of any of the toothpaste and relube. The grit pearls in the toothpaste will polish the gears giving them a better run.

Overlubing is also can be an issue. use just enough coat the teeth of the gears. 

[Trainman440]

I already completely disassembled the wheels, chassis, gearbox, wormgear, motor, etc and removed all the exisitng grime and grease. Then lightly added some grease to the worm gear and axle gear. Everything is tight. 

The gearbox does vibrate when the engine is in motion. I will further do some testing, with just gearbox, motor and driver to see if I can narrow down the issue. The toothpaste trick might work. 

I'll keep this posted!

Charles

[parts323]

I have one of those locomotives as well. The video that you have referenced sounds like the gears are meshed to tight. You may want to consider a shim or two between the motor and frame. My locomotive has the original motor and gearbox and is very quite. Check the linked video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TtWl5ee-t4

 

[Trainman440]

Wow! Parts323, that is amazing!

Earlier, while trying to find a video online to depict the sound my engine made, I saw that video and was wowed by how quiet it was. 

With the help of @7j43k, I've isolated the issue to having the worm shaft being able to slide forward and back. I added a washer to better stablize and center the worm gear, and now its a ton quieter!

I plan to add a makeshift arm that holds the gearbox still(to remove some vibration). It will look something like this:

Thanks all!

I'll upload a before and after video of the engine once I'm done!

Charles

[richg1998]

Would this be any help? Generally a worm runs a worm gear.

http://cwrailman.com/Loco%20Projects/PFMATSF%20Consol/PFM%20ATSF%20Consol.htm

Rich

[oldline1]

Maybe get a new gearbox from PSC? I think NWSL is still accepting orders or possibly find one on feebay?

oldline1

[Trainman440]

richg1998

Would this be any help? Generally a worm runs a worm gear.

http://cwrailman.com/Loco%20Projects/PFMATSF%20Consol/PFM%20ATSF%20Consol.htm

Rich

 

Ah, thanks! If I ever find a NWSL no.304-6 I'll be sure to replace the gear. I hope I can get my hands on one!

no. 304-6 no. 304no. 304-6-6

[richg1998]

oldline1

Maybe get a new gearbox from PSC? I think NWSL is still accepting orders or possibly find one on feebay?

oldline1

 

NWSL stopped accepting orders July 1st. At their site.

If anyone needs gear planning info, better download it now. He might drop his site.

I bought everything when NWSL was still in Washington many years ago. At the time it was sold. Gear planing info, motor sizes. Thin plastic sheets.

Rich

[littlebear]

I was fortunate to have placed an order with NWSL for gears and other items on 27 June and received the items in yesterday’s mail.     

However, I just went to Bowser’s website and found they still offer several worm/gear combinations.   All the worms were listed @$6.61 and the gears were $3.31.  Details are found in the various issues of the “HO reference manual” 

Worm #1030 and gear #1021 yield a 29/1 ratio with a 0.397” center to center distance

Worm #51106 and gear #51005 yield a 31/1 ratio with a 0.436” center to center distance

Worm #1010 and gear # 1011 yield a 32/1 ratio with a 0.500” center to center distance

[DR JIM FITE]

Feebay.   I like that.

[thomas81z]

littlebear

I was fortunate to have placed an order with NWSL for gears and other items on 27 June and received the items in yesterday’s mail.     

However, I just went to Bowser’s website and found they still offer several worm/gear combinations.   All the worms were listed @$6.61 and the gears were $3.31.  Details are found in the various issues of the “HO reference manual” 

Worm #1030 and gear #1021 yield a 29/1 ratio with a 0.397” center to center distance

Worm #51106 and gear #51005 yield a 31/1 ratio with a 0.436” center to center distance

Worm #1010 and gear # 1011 yield a 32/1 ratio with a 0.500” center to center distance

 

soooo im guessing that  the problem was solved ???