Doughless Sure you can buy a CAD designed, perfectly tooled and assembled accurate model from a factory.....but anybody can have one of those if they want one. The appeal of models as works of art diminishes tremendously once there is more than one exact copy. Then over and over and over.
Sure you can buy a CAD designed, perfectly tooled and assembled accurate model from a factory.....but anybody can have one of those if they want one. The appeal of models as works of art diminishes tremendously once there is more than one exact copy. Then over and over and over.
While a piece like this is one-of-a-kind and, therefore, makes it more valuable, you must keep in mind, this is made by an (probably) unproffesional. If a kid made a single model locomotive out of cardboard, it's also one-of-a-kind, however, not valuable. Similarly, if this $4500 engine was put together with, say, Elmer's school glue, and about to fall apart, It's not worth much. However, if it is well built, smooth rolling and sturdy, then the "this is the only one ever made" argument holds some weight. Just a little more. I wouldn't pay anything over $200 for it. (the same price I'd pay for a brass engine.)
Charles
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLb3FRqukolAtnD1khrb6lQ
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maxman richhotrain Max, would I lie to you? Yes. So you did marry an Armenian girl?
richhotrain Max, would I lie to you?
Yes.
So you did marry an Armenian girl?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainMax, would I lie to you?
maxman richhotrain My wife is from the old country and constantly refers to my layout as a zoot-beck and I never knew what she was saying. Really? I don't believe that. But if true, you didn't happen to marry an Armenian girl, did you?
richhotrain My wife is from the old country and constantly refers to my layout as a zoot-beck and I never knew what she was saying.
Really? I don't believe that. But if true, you didn't happen to marry an Armenian girl, did you?
richhotrainMy wife is from the old country and constantly refers to my layout as a zoot-beck and I never knew what she was saying.
maxman My father, from the "old country", had a phrase that he used to describe such things. It was pronounced something like zoot-beck. Roughly translated it meant an expensive (or not), useless item, that took up space and collected dust.
My father, from the "old country", had a phrase that he used to describe such things. It was pronounced something like zoot-beck. Roughly translated it meant an expensive (or not), useless item, that took up space and collected dust.
But, thanks for the definition. My wife is from the old country and constantly refers to my layout as a zoot-beck and I never knew what she was saying.
SeeYou190Antique has no meaning in the USA. It has become a synonym for "used".
I think I must be actually from the opposite side of the pond then. I hold more to your definition of art than most around here.
As for a presentation to an executive or something - that thought crossed my mind when I was writing my previous post, but then I took another look at it. No way in the hot place would such a crude thing be a presentation for a retring executive or even a highly valued engineer. Nor would that have been a shop apprentice job, not looking liek that. There still exist some locos built by the Reading Loco shop apprentices - fairly accurate in every detal, and everything works on them (which necessitates a few out of scale bits). There are also on display some smalle models made as gifts the president. They are very finely detailed models that just about anyone interested in trains would be pleased to have on display. This thing is no where near that in quality.
Perhaps somewhere out there are other things made by the same person - maybe not a train person, but the train is just one of many similar models handcrafted by this unknown person. Might be a farm tractor, or a truck, or automobile out there, made with similar techniques.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Tinplate ToddlerSame goes for the use of the word "antique".
.
Antique has no meaning in the USA. It has become a synonym for "used".
-Kevin
Living the dream.
riogrande5761By what definition? I think some could argue it's art. Often art immitates real things. Maybe a form of impressionistic art?
This is a cultural issue. I know that the folks at your end of the Big Pond have a rather liberal attitude towards what is art and what not. But in my neck of the woods, not all crafted things are considered art, even in a very loose interpretation of the word. Same goes for the use of the word "antique".
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Tinplate ToddlerAside from all eagerness to have that thing, let´s take a look at what is actually is! - It is not a piece of art.
- It is not a piece of art.
By what definition? I think some could argue it's art. Often art immitates real things. Maybe a form of impressionistic art?
The asking price make it a luxury for many. Could I afford it? Sure, but I have thing much more needful of that kind of cost, even if it were dropped 1k or 2k.
Don't get me wrong - it's pretty cool as a mantle piece but for the price ...take off a zero and maybe.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
SeeYou190 Tinplate Toddler It is just a big, rather crudely made representation of a steam engine, without any function. . And the fact it is not a scale model is the only reason my wife might allow it into the house on permanent display! . richhotrain Meanwhile, go about your business and see if you continue to lust for the item. Chances are, you probably won't. . Yes, it is an impulse, but we have been looking for something this size for a shelf in the living room for about a year. I know a locomotive was not what my wife had in mind, but she is on board with the "folk art" look of this piece. . I think I have what I will offer in place. . I do want it, but I certainly do not need to have it. If the seller does not accept my offer, I will simply move on. There are countless more antique malls in this country to rummage through. . The largest antique mall in Georgia, Ian Henderson's in Monroe just closed up shop due to a lease problem. Now there are hundreds of sellers in Georgia looking for new outlets. The market might be changing quite a bit. . -Kevin .
Tinplate Toddler It is just a big, rather crudely made representation of a steam engine, without any function.
And the fact it is not a scale model is the only reason my wife might allow it into the house on permanent display!
richhotrain Meanwhile, go about your business and see if you continue to lust for the item. Chances are, you probably won't.
Yes, it is an impulse, but we have been looking for something this size for a shelf in the living room for about a year. I know a locomotive was not what my wife had in mind, but she is on board with the "folk art" look of this piece.
I think I have what I will offer in place.
I do want it, but I certainly do not need to have it. If the seller does not accept my offer, I will simply move on. There are countless more antique malls in this country to rummage through.
The largest antique mall in Georgia, Ian Henderson's in Monroe just closed up shop due to a lease problem. Now there are hundreds of sellers in Georgia looking for new outlets. The market might be changing quite a bit.
I think you made a good point. The item is folk art, not a model. The crudeness of it is part of the appeal. It identifies that it is a hand made one-of-a-kind piece that is probably built by an unprofessional. In which case, its fairly impressive, especially if it rolls nicely.
Not encouraging you in any way. I'm simply pointing out to several who compare it to an actual professionally designed and built model, that this crude rendition has more appeal than a factory model in certain circles. I could see that if a rich train buff was redecorating his law office with a train theme, the item might fetch a decent price. Especially since the 1:1 version is in the B&O museum. I think the seller is waiting for that home-run to walk into his store.
I would judge it on what it is worth to me. Personally, I don't have use for any $4,500 piece of shelf art, but I might keep track of it in the coming weeks or months if it was something I seriously wanted.
- Douglas
SeeYou190 I think I have what I will offer in place.
Tinplate ToddlerIt is just a big, rather crudely made representation of a steam engine, without any function.
richhotrainMeanwhile, go about your business and see if you continue to lust for the item. Chances are, you probably won't.
Aside from all eagerness to have that thing, let´s take a look at what is actually is!
It has hardly a commercial value. There is no material value attached to it and we all know, how much, or better, how little value, the labor of love has, that we put into our layouts.
SeeYou190. I WANT IT!. The problem is that the seller has a price of $4,500.00 on it, which seems way out of line to me. . Does anyone know what it might be actually worth? I don't want reponses like "whatever you will pay", that is not a real answer. I want to make an honest purchase. I want to approach the seller with a reallistic and fair offer. I do not haggle with these kinds of purchases. I make a good offer, and move on if the seller says no. I just need to know what a fair price might be.
I WANT IT!.
The problem is that the seller has a price of $4,500.00 on it, which seems way out of line to me. .
Does anyone know what it might be actually worth? I don't want reponses like "whatever you will pay", that is not a real answer. I want to make an honest purchase.
I want to approach the seller with a reallistic and fair offer. I do not haggle with these kinds of purchases. I make a good offer, and move on if the seller says no. I just need to know what a fair price might be.
Sleep on it. Finish your meetings in Atlanta this week and drop by the antique store on the way back home. Take another look at it and see if you still WANT IT.
You will probably never be able to resell it, at least not for much if anything.
If you still must have it, leave your name and email address with the owner and tell him if he gets an offer less than $4,500 to contact you for a counteroffer.
Meanwhile, go about your business and see if you continue to lust for the item. Chances are, you probably won't. You initially acted on an impulse. See if it is a lasting desire to have this item.
Now you're talkin', Ed! Maybe I'll write FAM and see if they'll do a 1:1 version. Now THAT I'd drive all the way across the US to see.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageEven if it were a NYC Hudson, I wouldn't offer $50 for it.
Perhaps one of these 1:32 Fine Art Models Hudsons would be more to your liking?
https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/060253/1-32-Scale-Gauge-1-Brass-Model-Train-FAM-Fine-Art-Models-NYC-New-York-Central-4-6-4-Hudson-5405
F.A.M. produced a limited line of G Scale models some years back that are extremely well detailed. Amazing stuff.
Regards, Ed
Even if it were a NYC Hudson, I wouldn't offer $50 for it. Think how many nicer-looking, better-detailed HO locomotives - even in brass - you could pick up for 1/10th of that cost.
I think the seller has an interior designer in mind to be bought for a bar/restaurant installation. I wish him luck.
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
maxmanHowever, if you had considered my statement within the context of my entire post, you probably would have come to that conclusion.
I did, and I loved reading your response.
I hope all those household problems were made up. I would hate to think of all those repairs at once.
SeeYou190 maxman 4,500 is not bad at all! . That asking price is 100% pure nonsense.
I agree. However, if you had considered my statement within the context of my entire post, you probably would have come to that conclusion.
This demonstrates the problem with homemade one offs and antique shops. No one knows the value and the dealer is afraid of letting it go tooo cheap.
I'd say check back in a year and see if the price has gone down. Of course there are people to whom $4500 is not significant so it could be gone.
Paul
maxman4,500 is not bad at all!
That asking price is 100% pure nonsense.
Now if Steve O called me up and told me Kalmbach was selling the GORRE AND DAPHETID 4-10-0 for charity, I would certainly be tempted to put in a $4,500.00 bid on that locomotive, but my wife might kill me.
I would gladly pay $100.00 just to take a picture of it coupled to a STRATTON AND GILLETTE boxcar on the MR&T layout! That would be a thrill.
This one has no pedigree at all. It is just a really nice piece of handiwork that would probably appeal to very few people other than me.
I have a few art pieces in my house, and I bought them all because I like them. This is in that category.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
If I was going to buy a loco just to display, it would be brass. And I could pick it up all by myself.
Either the seller is in love with and and doesn't want to sell it or he has over estimated the market for unwieldy folk art.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I'd say that thing is worth no more than $150. $4500 is ridiculous!
I think you sould be able to get the guy to go down some if you explain what a crude model it is. I dought he'll give it to you for anything under $1000 without explanation if he's put such a high price on it.
Frankly, it's a great looking show piece, truely beautiful, just outrageously priced.
This guy needs to understand that the lack of detail and lack of a motor really lowers the value.
Good luck getting it from him, especially without bartering! Having lived in south Asia were bartering is required for every purchase, I can tell you that you can rarely get half the labeled price.
Again good luck, you will need it!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
SeeYou190I WANT IT! . The problem is that the seller has a price of $4,500.00 on it,
No, I want it. Please give me the name and number of the place that has the item. $4,500 is not bad at all!
Wait a minute. Wife just walked in and gave me some info:
bathroom tub diverter valve started leaking this morning: $1,200 for plumber and painter to come in and replace diverter, repair and paint ceiling below, and paint other items that are not the proper shade of white
$6.000 to install upstairs flooring in hallway and bedroom and on the staircase
$7,000 to custom build shelves on sides of fireplace and and make an entertainment stand to replace a perfectly functional item.
$11,500 to replace wholehouse air conditioner that decided to die, along with oil burner that is just a old.
Well, I guess I didn't want that loco afterall.
Funny I was going to say $450 as it needs to be cleaned up as a top price. It is a rather large peice so more likely a shelf decoration that a coffee table piece. Shelf decorations are less valuble (in general for purely decrative items) than coffee table peices (got a degree in Interior Design). That being said it is really worth what it is to you but I gave you your negotiating points.
Its a decorative piece of art, not necessarily a model. A bit of crudeness has some appeal in that it shows that it was hand made by a nonprofessional. I think artwork like that has decent value in certain circles, but it will take a long time to find a buyer for it, IMO.
I say offer the seller $500 and don't pay more than $750. Only if its worth that much to you as a specialized piece of decorative art. To train guy that would certainly be a nice on-off piece of decor you'd never find again. I doubt you'd get you money back very quickly.
As they say true can be brutal.
That is a home built engine and poorly done at that-look closely at the crude domes and cab windows.. $4500.00? No way..
I would have to think long and hard if it was $45.00.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"