Midwest Northern R.R Hi Y'all, After years of small township modeling, I'm starting to consider starting some International modeling. What I had in mind, was starting with some british trains, later moving to German Steam trains. Has anyone else tried this, or should I lean more towards the "Don't Do It" side? This is probably an idea that would end my compatibility....
Hi Y'all,
After years of small township modeling, I'm starting to consider starting some International modeling. What I had in mind, was starting with some british trains, later moving to German Steam trains.
Has anyone else tried this, or should I lean more towards the "Don't Do It" side? This is probably an idea that would end my compatibility....
I'm a Belgian.
One of the most frustating thing about European trains is the complete lack of good couplers.
Most are still on the horn hook line, and the couplers which offer delayed action when they are working, are clearly out of scale, need a actuator in the track and absolutely not realistic and clearly largely out of scale; in fact none are really working even for a sweet coupling.
This is a complaint of all the "real" modeler in Europe.
The possibility to put Kadee couplers on European trains is difficult even if you use the "Nem" couplers of Kadee.
Putting Kaddees couplers is all the time tricky knowing European trains are all equiped with bumpers; most to not say all models need good chirurgical work for changing the original couplers.
And about the flanges, most are out of size from the pizza cutter age even on models offered today.
Excepting Tillig and Peco, most of the track offered is out of scale with turnouts radius extremly sharp.
This is the reason I switched on american N scale train 45 years ago with surely no any regrets
Just a review and my opinion
This sounds like great fun! Though I model US prototypes, I'm a big fan of British railroad and have many books and many, many hours of documentaries. They love and respect their trains over there.
A fellow club member and I have talked about adding some British trains to our layout. The biggest issue, as I see it, is the OO vs HO thing. OO trains look fine, but you don't really get how small their trains are (60' coaches!) unless you have HO stuff.
Lima did make true HO-scale BR coaches (Mark 1s) and I own one -- bought it used at a hobby shop in London (Janes Trains in Tooting Broadway, I highly recommend a visit) for 7 pounds, about eleven bucks. The biggest problem is finding HO scale locomotives... Lima made some back in the day but they are crap for detail. If I get serious about this, I'll probably have to suck it up and go OO.
Plenty of stuff on eBay to be sure, but if I was serious about this I'd probably wait for a European trip (I do those from time to time) and arrange a stopover in London. My one shopping experience yielded some great prices.
Agree that Bachmann is well regarded over there -- the hobby shop owner said he was surprised when he brings up Bachmann to Americans and they go "Ugh". (For the record, I like my Bachmann locos.) I was never impressed by Hornby in the 80s, but I recently bought some Rivarossi-by-Hornby U25Cs and they are among the best locomotives I own.
I really want a Class 37 -- one of my favorite (er, favourite) locomotives. But if I get one of those, I'll need a Western... and a Deltic... oh, and definitely a Class 31... talk about falling down the rabbit hole.
International Hobbies in Auburn, California, carries British model railway equipment. Here’s a link to their page. According to the blurb at the bottom, their inventory is more extensive than what’s shown.
http://www.interhobmodels.com/id14.html
Andre
Hornby and Bachmann and the major players in the British market but there are several niche manufactures that can be found. If you have a real interest in the British scene the British Railway Modelers of North America would be worth checking out. There is a large show on the even years in a Toronto Suburbs. For European modeling the European Train Enthusiasts is available.
For ordering Reynaulds is a good place for the European stuff domestically. There really isn't much domestically for a dedicated British store, I know many people have ordered through Hattons in the UK with no issues. They are one of the largest hobby/order shops in the UK, good used selection as well. Again some work on the internet will fine many more places.
If you want something really different but relatively easy to source look at Japanese trains in N scale. The market is very large in Japan so there is a lot of equipment that can be had for very reasonable amounts and quick shipping for most of it. Kato and Tomix are the biggest brands but as always there are many more. N scale is the primary scale there so the selection of items is vast and comprehensive.
As far as track goes HO/OO/4mm/3.5mm use the same track, there is a whole rabbit hole to go down when it comes to scale width track for UK/Ireland. almost all recent (~20 years) production will run on code 83. The older equipment will definitely require code 100. DC locomotives work on 12 vdc so American power packs will work fine. Any of the AC locomotives will require their own proprietary control system. I am pretty sure that equipment tagged as DCC is DCC and will run on American DCC systems.
Keep in mind that there is a market (although much smaller then US, UK, Germany) for models from many places including Australia, France, Switzerland, Ireland, China, Italy, etc. It may take some digging and close enough modeling but the international model railroad sphere is bigger than many people realize.
Virtually all European HO gauge equipment will run on code 83 track.
You need to be carefull about mixing UK and continental models on the same layout. There is a very noticible difference in size between HO and OO which becomes obvious when you place them side by side on the same layout. If you go UK I advise you to check out the Bachmann UK range which in the opinion of many people, myself included is superior to Hornby. They have a very extensive range of locos, carriages and freight vehicles of all the popular eras. You may be able to order these direct from the Bachmann US site.
Brian Deasy (Ireland)
As long as we're talking buying and LHS's,
Does anyone know of a international Hobby store in MN, preferably south of Theif River Falls?
Half an hour of activity at “Much Murkle”, a 1930’s era Great Western Railway branchline terminus. The entire layout is 8x2 and has a total of 8 turnouts. While I’m not a big fan of GWR Pannier tanks, this does illustrate how much operation can take place in a small space. I first became aware of this layout via an article in “Hornby” magazine in the summer of 2012.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJ60BZMRXE#fauxfullscreen
Track plan can be found here:
https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/images/files/5.pdf
My focus has always been on domestic modeling. But international stuff has always had a draw to me. British stuff has always interested me (thanks Rev. Awdry...) since I was a little kid, and frankly I want to have some OO stuff someday. I also lived a few years in Argentina and I would love to have some HOm gauged stuff someday representative of what I saw there. I have a friend of mine who is really into Australian stuff, and I still humorously think back to the time he had one of his Aussie models on display in a train show and somebody saw it vocally responded "Genesee and Wyoming... AUSTRALIA!?"
Basically, do what you want. Be ready for the shipping charges in getting stuff shipped from overseas for your railroad, but in the modern era of online shipping its possible. Your German stuff would be a stand out compared to the droves of domestic stuff we normally see.
There are a diverse, abundant variety of international prototypes well worth modeling. Like North American designs, they vary in what is to one’s taste. I’d suggest doing some video tourism, so easy in this internet age, but taking heed there are a lot of good (and some bad) books that are also helpful in finding something interesting.
Basically, there are many parallels to modeling the B&O...but it pays to know what you like and focus on it as with many of the more satisfying who at least pay some attention to prototype.
Once you narrow your interests, then see what’s available versus what your own hands on skill set and interests may be vs your budget. As with many US RRs, many great dreams die on the fact you might need to scratch-build 150 special ore cars or find a certain set of classic locos are only available as rare brass models.
There are some really neat models available at reasonable costs. Consider a different scale or gauge, because if you’re ever going to get the chance for a nice, neat switchover, it will rarely be easier than this.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
jjdamnitLast week I pulled the trigger and order this unit.
While there is no issue running your Marklin loco with a DCC control, it still requires 3 rail track and will not run on your 2 rail track.
In case you want to go "the whole hog", as you say - Marklin also sells a 110V version of their controlstation.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
NittanyLion * Anyone that uses the blanket "Europe is better than the United States at passenger trains" need to qualify the statement with "except for Italy." Amfleets at least have air conditioning.
* Anyone that uses the blanket "Europe is better than the United States at passenger trains" need to qualify the statement with "except for Italy." Amfleets at least have air conditioning.
I’ll say it, anyway. First time I rode European trains was in 1983. At the time, only about half the trains I rode were completely air conditioned. I thought it was great to be able to lower the window and hang my head out the window of the trains on the various routes of the SBB, ÖBB, SNCF, DB, FS, and RENFE. When we went from Florence to Salzburg over the Brenner Pass, I must have spent virtually all the trip in the corridor with the window open. Fantastic trip.
OTOH, I was nearly 40 before I owned a car with air conditioning. Try crossing the Mojave Desert in mid-summer with a hot desert wind blowing through your hair and a canvas water bag hanging off your outside mirror.
Good times.
https://www.moonrandolphhomestead.org/homestead-journals/2018/7/16/the-desert-water-bag
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Last September, I experienced the South Western Railway, Eurostar, TGV Lyria, SBB, the RhB Bernina Express, Trenord*, Frecciarossa, and Frecciargento in a week and a half. I really wanted a TGV Lyria or a Frecciarossa set that would largely be a shelf queen. Except that TGV Lyria was going to set me back $800 and the Frecciarossa was well past $1000.
Europe has quite the sticker shock when it comes to the models.
If you've got the scratch, there's no reason not to do international. There's a shop here in Illinois that specializes in just that.
Really though, even if you're a budget guy, with patience, you can acquire all sorts of interesting eurpean trains from Ebay and trainshows. I've long been intrigued by German trains, but the only Foreign stuff I have is:
-Lima Shinkansen
-A set of Hogwarts coaches and a Tri-ang Princes repainted to aproximate the Hogwarts express loco.
-A couple of Tri-ang coaches of American Prototypes.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
Hello All,
My wife and I recently took a trip to Europe; Germany, Belgium, Northern France and the Netherlands.
We traveled exclusively by trains from locals to ICE and TGV trains along with subways and trollies.
Rail fanning was abundant and the differences from what I'm used to were fascinating.
I had been warned about certain places of "temptation" to avoid in Europe.
While my wife was touring yet another cathedral or museum of some kind my curiosity got the best of me.
This place was just off the main square in Aachen, Germany!
As I walked around this "establishment" the first thing I noticed was there were no embarrassed looks, no attempts at averted eye contact from the other "patrons" that I had experienced in places like this in the U.S.
"All my 'needs' could be met here" I thought to myself. But I had promised my wife I wouldn't do anything rash.
But then, I turned a corner and there she was!
A Märklin Class G 2000 BB Diesel Locomotive with Mfx + Sound!!!
I knew it was out of my budget at € 349,99 and I had promised my wife.
Walking out of the Model Center Hünerbein I knew I had been smitten.
Even after getting home and working on my freelance pike I couldn't get that locomotive out of my mind.
Hearing of the differences between European and North American systems I hesitated.
Then I contacted Märklin about the compatibility of this unit with DCC.
The response was encouraging...
Last week I pulled the trigger and order this unit.
Yes, there will be compatibility differences in coupling. I checked the Kadee website and they offer conversion kits.
My freelance pike is set from the early '70's to the late '80's as a coal branch loop in the Colorado Rockies.
This locomotive is definitely more modern than the era I model but I was smitten!
While in the hobby store in Germany they had all the European systems setup in a demonstration area.
If you are going the European route I would go "Whole Hog" and go with the Märklin Mfx+ system.
Yes, you will need use a transformer to convert from North American 110v/60hz to 220v/50hz, but the capabilities of the Märklin system makes DCC and LCC seem arcane.
Follow your wishes and dreams and model what you want.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Having lived in Central Minnesota all my life, Canadian sold products I would expect to ship quite fast. Some have mentioned several European rail hobby stores in Canada, This should be even a decrease in delivery mileage than to order something from Califonia, thus creating a shorter wait time for delivery.
I already have looked into going into more N-Scale for British models, because most of the cheaper models are in N rather than HO, which is the majority of my railroad. I have a wish list of the Classes that I would like to start with: 66, 37, 05. Later on this year (I have concluded to start International Modeling), I would like to get some German steam going: Class 50, 52.
While we’re at it, International Hobbies in Auburn, California, carries British and Australian models.
http://www.interhobmodels.com/id18.html
European modeling is popular in Canada and there is always good representation at train shows here. TT gauge has really taken off as well.
There are two European RR shops in Western Canada that do a large volume of business. I have bought stuff from both.
https://www.britanniamodels.com/
https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/
I have a real interest in the Hejaz RR. Being quite fascinated by Middle East/Ottoman history the Hejaz comes up often in the books I have read. It is the RR that T.E. Lawrence blew up in the movie Lawrence of Arabia. There is a modeling group in Europe that focuses on the Hejaz RR. The Hejaz used mostly German equipment and therefore I am guessing quite doable. The wagons are more of a problem but from what I have read simple to scratch build.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hejaz_railway#Attacks_on_the_railway
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
All Marklin locos are 3-rail AC. Marklin´s 2 rail DC brand is Trix.
Be careful with Marklin. Many of t Their locomotives are AC, not DC. They definitely are not compatible with what you may currently use.
EDITED (see below)
Gary
nealknows Discount Train in Ft. Lauderdale, FL is one which I did visit this past March.
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There is also Micro Macro Mundo in Miami that is exclusively European trains. Very clean shop with an excellent selection.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Regarding campatability, I believe Kadee makes NEM coupler conversions for European rolling stock.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
CNCharlie You might want to pick up a few copies of British model railway magazines such as the Hornby magazine or Railway Modeller. Where I live in Canada there is a large book store that stocks seveal Brit magazines. They tend to have a lot of detailed ads from various suppliers such as Hattons. I just checked and M.B. Kleins lists a few Brit magazines but you would also have to pay for shipping. CN Charlie
You might want to pick up a few copies of British model railway magazines such as the Hornby magazine or Railway Modeller. Where I live in Canada there is a large book store that stocks seveal Brit magazines. They tend to have a lot of detailed ads from various suppliers such as Hattons.
I just checked and M.B. Kleins lists a few Brit magazines but you would also have to pay for shipping.
CN Charlie
You might also try Barnes & Noble. Amazingly, quite a few I’ve come across carry Brit magazines. Even more amazing is that there are no fewer than 5 hardcopy British magazines dedicated to model railways. My recommendation is “Model Rail”, which, to my mind, has the greatest variety.
Link to “Model Rail”. https://www.model-rail.co.uk/
BTW, Brit magazines are expensive over here. I paid $9.50 for my June issue of “Model Rail”.
Midwest Northern R.R Ending my compatibility would mean that UK loco hooks would have difficulty attaching to my American Delrey and Knuckle couplers. I know that UK hooks are "up-and-over" latches rather than "back-up-to-me-and-I'll-hook" couplers. Which means, that If I were to model a foreign modeler in a large town getting his trains delivered on rail, I would have to either use a long flatcar to transport trains, or make a disquised hook transfer car, and a couple of them. This is more of a Con out of the "Pro vs. Con" list. riogrande5761-To answer your question, I would like to see if anyone else had tried this alongside American models, and thought it to be something to reccommend.
Ending my compatibility would mean that UK loco hooks would have difficulty attaching to my American Delrey and Knuckle couplers.
I know that UK hooks are "up-and-over" latches rather than "back-up-to-me-and-I'll-hook" couplers. Which means, that If I were to model a foreign modeler in a large town getting his trains delivered on rail, I would have to either use a long flatcar to transport trains, or make a disquised hook transfer car, and a couple of them. This is more of a Con out of the "Pro vs. Con" list.
riogrande5761-To answer your question, I would like to see if anyone else had tried this alongside American models, and thought it to be something to reccommend.
Actually, most British outline models now come with the NEM 362 plug in coupler pocket. As it happens, Kadee makes couplers that plug right into those sockets.
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/search?search_query_adv=kadee+nem
NEM pockets are standard equipment on Continental models as well.
In the US there are quite a few suppliers of European train models. Discount Train in Ft. Lauderdale, FL is one which I did visit this past March. There's one I know of in the New Jersey area and once I find it (or remember it), I will post it.
As far as modeling both, your best bet may be to have a divider type wall on the railroad to show 'crossing the pond' as they say. I don't think you can transistion both on the same track and of course the same scale.
Like a few others stated - It's your railroad and your hobby. Do what you want!
Enjoy!
Neal
Just to confirm - you realize British OO scale (1/76) is "larger" than HO (1/87), and British N scale (1/148) is "larger" than what Americans (and Germans & Japanese, etc.) consider N (1/160). Yes, they both use the same track gauges as their respective non-British counterparts, but the size differences may look very off.I'd say go right for the German equipment, I have several pieces of HO Marklin and Roco DB wagons, and they look neat on a diorama I have. One odd wagon (guess a small parcels wagon, but not sure, searches didn't turn up prototypes) I fitted with Kadee #5s and run from time to time on my HO SE Penn module as a work car (I used spare cushion coupler pockets I had to compensate for the buffers).
There are quite a few online resources available, which will be able to supply you with all what you need for a European or British themed layout. Mind you - that stuff does not come cheap, though.
Couplers shouldn´t be an issue. Most manufacturers have long adopted the NEM 362 (that´s the European counterpart of the NMRA) coupler pockets, which makes swapping couplers to any brand a job done in seconds - just pull out the old coupler and put the new one in. Kadee has couplers which will fit into an NEM coupler pocket.
A word of advice - wheels are made to NEM standards which have a little deeper flanges than the NMRA RP 25 profile. To be on the safe side, your track should be code 100.
There are international options for modeling trains?! Kidding aside, do what you like with the hobby. Look at what others do in the UK, Germany, etc. and go from there. You might not have an easy a time finding structures or freight cars, but have fun regardless.