I bought a big box-O-trains at flea market.
Found a Varney PRR gondola in the bottom.
I can't find another one, and google has let me down.
Any hints to age ? Is it rare / valuable ? ( I know rare does not always = $$$ )
Hi there. I assume this is HO scale. It looks like it was modified to look like a European wheel arrangement. Have you tried it? I suspect the thing will derail a lot because of its rigid and long frame.
Simon
Sure it's Varney? Might be Marx HO. Seeing as how it has X2f couplers, in an interesting white/ivory plastic instead of the more typical black. Yellowed from UV exposure.
Or maybe some sort of Frankencar, if the main body is Varney (can't read what it says on the left side). Loooks like there are two locating posts where the bolster would be for a standard 4 wheel truck, and then that metal frame with 2 axles is riveted right through the bottom of the gon. And the couplers are riveted on too. Very strange.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I also wondered if it's a Marx, or some sort of toy train market car. I had a circa 1958 Marx set, and it had 2 trucks, and talgo style couplers. But that body certainly looks like Marx or Varney.
Peter
I have a genuinely old Varney plastic PRR gondola. It is in red, number is 357845. It has a complete under frame with center sill, including reasonably accurate parts for the AB brake system. But the general outline of the casting including ribs and rivets is very much like what the OP has photographed.
One possibility certainly is a Marx knock off -- the Marx HO scale EMD F3 was clearly a knock off of the Varney model, even to the point of some parts being interchangable. Problem is the Marx HO scale gondolas I have seen had 9 ribs (and two trucks).
Another possibility - my recollection is that one or another of the 1950s breakfast cereals had Varney train give aways. Could Varney have created this cheapo car for that purpose? If the purpose for the giveaway was to induce youngsters to become model railroaders that seems unlikely. The Varney gondola was a lightweight all plastic thing already. There was no reason to (or profit in) cheapening it further.
An intriguing mystery.
Dave Nelson
dknelson I have a genuinely old Varney plastic PRR gondola. It is in red, number is 357845. It has a complete under frame with center sill, including reasonably accurate parts for the AB brake system. But the general outline of the casting including ribs and rivets is very much like what the OP has photographed. One possibility certainly is a Marx knock off -- the Marx HO scale EMD F3 was clearly a knock off of the Varney model, even to the point of some parts being interchangable. Problem is the Marx HO scale gondolas I have seen had 9 ribs (and two trucks). Another possibility - my recollection is that one or another of the 1950s breakfast cereals had Varney train give aways. Could Varney have created this cheapo car for that purpose? If the purpose for the giveaway was to induce youngsters to become model railroaders that seems unlikely. The Varney gondola was a lightweight all plastic thing already. There was no reason to (or profit in) cheapening it further. An intriguing mystery. Dave Nelson
Deano
Well I don't know anything about Barney or other long gone manufactures, but from looking at you picture, I must comment that the cars is the most in American car to ever be painted for the Pennsy!
I would agree with what others have said that this car will run terribly! That wheel base is enormous compared to normal 4 axle cars and the couplers are way to far from the wheels!
EDIT* by ”Barney” I meant “Varney”. We all love autocorrect!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
SPSOT fanWell I don't know anything about Barney or other long gone manufactures
Hi Isaac.
I think you meant 'Varney', not 'Barney'. I believe that Barney is a purple dinosaur who is much closer in age to you than anything Varney or Marx may have made!
Sorry, couldn't resist. No disrespect intended.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter SPSOT fan Well I don't know anything about Barney or other long gone manufactures Hi Isaac. I think you meant 'Varney', not 'Barney'. I believe that Barney is a purple dinosaur who is much closer in age to you than anything Varney or Marx may have made! Sorry, couldn't resist. No disrespect intended. Dave
SPSOT fan Well I don't know anything about Barney or other long gone manufactures
No disrespect taken! We all love it when autocorrect messes up and produces a free laugh! Wish autocorrect would recognize the names of such famous manufacturers. I think I actually know even less about Barney than I do about Varney, I never watched that show when I was younger. Younger me liked Thomas the Tank Engine, duh! Who wouldn’t like a TV show made with actual model trains!
dknelsonAnother possibility - my recollection is that one or another of the 1950s breakfast cereals had Varney train give aways. Could Varney have created this cheapo car for that purpose? If the purpose for the giveaway was to induce youngsters to become model railroaders that seems unlikely. The Varney gondola was a lightweight all plastic thing already. There was no reason to (or profit in) cheapening it further.
The one I have on hand presently is from the Carnation milk offer or was at least assocoiated it by time and the identical packaging. It's in standard 2-truck config.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
SPSOT fanWe all love it when autocorrect messes up and produces a free laugh! Wish autocorrect would recognize the names of such famous manufacturers.
My Autocorrect works pretty good. It involves reading my posts before I actually post them. It's not perfect mind you. I often find myself making two or three revisions after I have posted my comments. I believe that some might call that "blithering".
Cheers!!
I though I would add the OPs photo to the thread, it might make it easier for people to contribute, though we are already pretty far into the thread!
Hope this is helpful!
hon30critter Barney is a purple dinosaur who is much closer in age to you than anything Varney or Marx may have made!
.
Depending on how you consider the starting point, Barney The Purple Dinosaur is either 32 or 28 years old! Wow, I remember when he was new. I am so old.
The color scheme lives on forever, even on diesel engines.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
That is not a Varney.. Its a old Marx or perhaps a battery powered toy train set car.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Well it seems more Varney than Marx to me, and here's why. The Marx gon has 10 panels per side, the Varney has 8. And look, this one is an 8 panel gondola. Also has the some road number as one of the Varney examples on ebay, meaning they likely used the Varney pad to print it. Curious that it's in black, as the Varneys are red, as were PRR's gons.
The wheels look like Athearns, but they could have been replaced.
In the event someone actually wants a Varney plastic gondola, be aware that the Varney tooling had as many lives as a cat does, and at various times I think LifeLike, Model Power, and the cheapo outfit Industrial Rail (with the small white cardboard boxes and see through window that hid the trucks and couplers - for good reason) kept Varney models out there under their own names of course. I still see Industrial Rails stuff at swap meets although I believe the firm itself is kaput.
The Varney 36' wood sided reefer was one such car. The gondola was another. Certain kitbashers made good use of those cars for many years.
confordWell it seems more Varney than Marx to me, and here's why.
Varney its not.. It lacks several things underbody detail and most of all Varney's name.. I don't think its a Marx either because the Marx logo is not there.
It looks like a toy train car from a wind up or battery powered train set you could buy at any five and dime store(remember those?).
Like I said, there is something molded in on the left side just past the metal frame supporting the wheels. I can see it's there if I click the OP's link and then zoom to max, but I can't read it. A look at that should give some clue.
Randy, That thing it the middle looks like a shield logo if that is of help.
rrinker Like I said, there is something molded in on the left side just past the metal frame supporting the wheels. I can see it's there if I click the OP's link and then zoom to max, but I can't read it. A look at that should give some clue.
Randy (and everybody else), that writing on the left definitely says VARNEY in all caps, with the "V" at the top, and to be read with your head tilted to the right. There's a number below the word Varney, but I can make-out only the first digit, which is a "2".
Page 13 of my 1953 Varney catalogue shows the gondola, advertising it "in various roadnames, in red and in black." The photo illustration is of a Pennsy car, numbered 357845, and there's a photo on page 12, facing, of a train of such gondolas being pulled by a Varney "Casey Jones" 10 Wheeler, taken by John Allen on his layout. Below the Pennsy car on page 13, is a photo of the first car in the aforementioned train, D&RGW 71427. It's being pushed by a Varney Dockside switcher, while Mexican labourers work on a nearby track, also on John Allen's layout.
The Pennsy gondola photo is a 3/4 view from above, while the D&RGW car is shown from eye-level, and it shows at least some underbody detail - most likely either the air reservoir or the brake cylinder. The topic of this thread likely had the underbody detail removed to allow mounting on the 4-wheel chassis.
The ad copy touts the fully assembled sprung trucks and sprung draft gear, and notes that there are, by actual count, 4,000 rivets on this car. "Sweet running and sweet lookin'. Gondola kit, lowest price in HO, only $1.90"
The catalogue is missing the front and rear covers, and no part numbers are shown for the various freight cars offered in the catalogue. There are also 15 pages of Varney parts for scratchbuilders, along with this photo....
Wayne
Wayne, The body may be Varney the wheels is anything but.. I don't know of any Varney car that has two wheels like in the picture. You see even back in the day that would be unacceptable.
Here's a theory, maybe someone bashed the wierd wheels onto a regular varney body!
It's unlikely but that could explain why we can't seem to place were the model came from.
That 4 wheel base is riveted right through the body, and the couplers are riveted on as well, looks too much like a machine job, not hand done. My theory is old Varney tooling being used by some cheap toy maker. Unless Varney made an economy toy line at some point. The X2f couplers pretty much set an earliest date that could be from.
SPSOT fanHere's a theory, maybe someone bashed the wierd wheels onto a regular varney body!...
That was pretty obvious from the photo, especially after deciphering the Varney name of the bottom of the gondola body.
Anybody with basic skills can accomplish neat rivetting, and if you note the wheels, they're plastic on steel needlepoint axles, so while the converted Varney car may be riding on an older (or homemade) chassis, I don't think that the modifications are any older than the late '50s.I have metal cars from both Varney and Athearn that had early Kadee couplers with their covers rivetted in-place, so it wasn't all that uncommon.My guess is that somebody had the Varney body, missing its trucks, and simply rivetted the chassis to it as a toy for a child.And, it just occurred to me, that we were puzzling over the writing on the underside of the gondola body, but it was stated in the original post that it was from Varney. Logic should have alerted us to the likelihood that the almost undecipherable word would have been Varney, although the car's owner could have cleared it up with a short comment.
exdirtbiker...Any hints to age ? Is it rare / valuable ? ( I know rare does not always = $$$ )
Well, I've already made my guess as to its age, at least the Varney portion of it. The chassis may be older, but if it had any worth, it would have been lost, in my opinion, when it was removed from whatever it had been under in its previous iteration.It may be rare, though....how many people would bother the spend the effort to create such an item?
Here's another Varney car, originally factory-painted in NYC's "Pacemaker" grey and red paint scheme. I had over-painted it as a CPR car, but later decided to upgrade the details a bit. I had intended to strip-off the CPR paint and lettering, but all of the paint came off, so the colour you see in the first few photos is simply rust
As a re-build, it might be semi-rare but anybody could have done similar work, and there were likely thousands of the original cars made. Is it worth anything? Not likely very much, dollar-wise, but to me, it's still a valuable keepsake and reminder of my beginnings in HO.
Probably should have painted the roof additions before adding them, and left the car's roof paint alone - it's quite realistic weathering. Maybe a clear coat to keep it from seriously rusting.
Amazing what can be done with old "crude" models.
rrinkerAmazing what can be done with old "crude" models. --Randy
As a teen I can't recall anybody liking Varney freight cars.Of course by that time Athearn and Roundhouse cars was the defacto standard since they look good and was easily built.
exdirtbikerThanks for getting my pic up there. Sorry I was umm... "unavailable" ... to thank you guys earlier for your detective work. as best as I can tell, it says "2754" on the bottom under "VARNEY". And yes, it weighs "nothing" :-)
And that is why we have RP20.1..Back in the 40/50s and into the early 60s it was surely needed for several wood and plastic kits cars like Varney and Hobbyline.