Time to get this project going. I've talked about it for a while, and it's finally on the work bench, after completing my overhead crane build, which, if your interested is here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/275511.aspx
To get this project going, a picture of the prototype, just a couple of blocks from my house.
It now belongs to the East Troy Electric Railroad, AKA the East Troy Railroad Museum. https://www.easttroyrr.org/
This car started out life as a coal tender on the MILW.
They have made some changes, most obvious is the ladders and roof walk have been removed from the cab.
I was also able to find a drawing of this caboose, for the 01731 - 01740 series, which mine is numbered 01738.
My intent is to build this car as it was when delivered to the ETERR, not sure of the date when that happened. I'll be adding the ladders and roof walk, and starting out with it in MILW paint.
I was able to get access to the car, and take pictures, but, I should have taken a lot more! , but with some on line help, and help from forum members, and what pictures I did take, I can work it all out, and fill the info I don't have.
First up, was the trucks. I dug through my 3 small boxes of misc. trucks, and come up with a pair that needed only some minor work. Removing the coil springs, and adding the leaf springs.
The original truck is on the right, the reworked truck on the left.
Then, after a long delay, I finally started on the frame. I couldn't find an excisting caboose frame and chassis that looked right, so I started building a frame from scratch, using my pictures that I took while laying under the prototype.
It took some tweeking to get the dimensions right, but finally built, sitting on the trucks, and testing for height.
I didn't add ALL of the steel that is under the prototype, remember, this was a tender, so I added the basic frame as I seen it, while taking pictures, and made the bolsters as close as I could to the prototype, and still have this car operational, as I will be using it.
Then I went to work on the brake gear and equipment. My earlier photos centered on the frame of this car, and the brake rigging wasn't even on my radar, when taking pictures, , so I was able to piece things together with the help of members in here, and some online searching, and the photos I did take.
Having a brake wheel at both ends kind of stumped me, as far as the rigging and rods went.
Next, I worked out the steps. Lacking in photos on the step build, it was slow, and I'm not 100% happy with the results, as they ended up about a scale 2" higher, of the rails, than the prototype.
After the steps, I did some weathering on the bottom, and then installed the diamond plate decks, and went to work on the cab, using .040 styrene.
I'll take a break here, and be back with more.
Mike.
My You Tube
Yours is looking soooo much better than mine:
I should really start over. I can't wait to see yours finished!
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
HarrisonYours is looking soooo much better than mine
Harrison,
Don't beat yourself up. Everybody who scratchbuilds had to start somewhere. You should be proud of making a start into a very rewarding part of the hobby!
In hindsight, everything I have ever scratchbuilt or kitbashed could have been done better!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Looks good Mike!
hon30critter Harrison Yours is looking soooo much better than mine Harrison, Don't beat yourself up. Everybody who scratchbuilds had to start somewhere. You should be proud of making a start into a very rewarding part of the hobby! In hindsight, everything I have ever scratchbuilt or kitbashed could have been done better! Dave
Harrison Yours is looking soooo much better than mine
Yes, Harrison you’re one step ahead of me, you’ve tried to scratch build something!
If you want to rebuild it, go ahead, all you’ll be doing is improving your skills!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
Thanks for the compliment, Harrison. Yours looks great! and everytime you build something, it'll get better, but there will always be little things that you might not like, and wish you did different.
I'm just starting this, and there's a couple of things I'm not totally satisfied with.
I like your steps! Which caboose model/manufacturer did you get the frame/steps from?
Thanks Dave!
mbinsewiTime to get this project going. I've talked about it for a while, and it's finally on the work bench, after completing my overhead crane build, which, if your interested is here: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/275511.aspx To get this project going, a picture of the prototype, just a couple of blocks from my house. It now belongs to the East Troy Electric Railroad, AKA the East Troy Railroad Museum. https://www.easttroyrr.org/ This car started out life as a coal tender on the MILW.
Deano
Harrison; Start over if you wish. Slow down, work clean, learn to file and get good square fit of parts. Spray, or learn to airbrush paint... Improve. (We all are) But, KEEP that original model just like it is. It's a milestone for you. Dan.
Oh. And nice work, Mike!
hon30critterHarrison, Don't beat yourself up.... ...In hindsight, everything I have ever scratchbuilt or kitbashed could have been done better!
Very true, Dave!
Nice work Mike, I must admit I omit the brake details as (1) I'm lazy, (2) if I can't see it, I don't do it.(most of the time).
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
SouthgateBut, KEEP that original model just like it is. It's a milestone for you.
I agree with Dan on this one, don't destroy serial No. 00001. It is a piece of your history.
You both have one-up on me. Years and years of kit bashing, modifying, detailing but I never scratch built any rolling stock (other than some ride-on large scale stuff).
Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing
Sorry to hear both your cabooses have a tender bottom. There's medicine for that
Regards, Ed
Thanks Deano, nice to know about a local connection with the MILW. and their terminal caboose.
Did your brother move on to work for the Soo?
Here's a floor plan of the interior of these cars, and they did have all the comforts, so to say. An oil stove, reversible table and chairs, a desk for the conductor, and of course, the "dry hopper" You might have to enlarge it to read everything.
Thanks Dan, yea, there are a few places I could've spent more time in the filing and sanding dept., for sure. All critical for using the macro setting on a camera!
Thanks Bear, this is the first time I have ever done the brake gear, linkage and piping. It was a challange, and while doing it, I started to "get it" as far as the guys that do this all the time with their freight car builds.
I could've spent more time getting everything perfect. As I mentioned before, that macro setting on a camera doesn't lie!
Thanks Ed, speaking of tender bottoms, Here's a shot I took while under the prototype, showing the truck and bolster connection.
I didn't think I could model it the way it actually is, and be able to operate the car, as we need a little side to side action on our models for good operation.
This picture looks straight on at the bolster, and truck, you can see the leaf springs on each side, towards the bottom of the picture.
Here's another view of the end of the prototype, showing the brake wheel stand, and the end railing details.
Thanks to RRpicturearchives and the Rev, Jeremy Heilman for this picture.
I couldn't find a stand like that, so I will be using some angle iron, and building my own.
This photo above is from 2016, since then, the end sills have been torched open, eliminating the poling pockets and side marker lights.
The photo below is from 2017, from the collection I took.
There must have been a reason the ETERR guys did this, maybe the poling pockets had to be removed? Some law or rule?
My model will have the poling pockets and side markers.
You can also see the extra weights I added, to get this model to about 2.5oz. NMRA says it should weigh in at 3.5oz.
I'm not detailing the interior, because of hidding the extra weight, and you couldn't see it anyway, with the small windows.
I started working on cab details. I don't like the "chunky" look of the angles for the roof walk, I think I'll do some filing.
More to come!
Thanks for all the great comments!
It already looks great Mike and when finished I think this is going to be a wonderful replica. You've been mentioning this project for a long long time. (But I agree - those oversized parts for the running boards will bug you forever if you don't do something about them at this stage. It is interesting how unlivable things you "can live with" become.)
Those interested in "rolling your own" should, in addition to paying close attention to what Mike is doing, read Alex Sansone's good article about scratchbuilding a Milwakee Road transfer caboose in the June 2010 Model Railroader and should also try to acquire the Milwaukee Road Historical Society's book on steel cabooses, which has a section on the transfer cabooses. Not all of us are so lucky as to be within walking distance of a preserved prototype!
Dave Nelson
Thanks Dave ! I already filed down the angles before I installed them, and to hold on to the model, it looks OK, but when I took a picture in macro! They looked like 6" angle instead of the approx. 2" that I thought I had!
I'm trimming them down now, while leaving them in place. It's not looking bad, even with the macro setting!
Plus I've "test" fitted the grating, and that helps the overall looks.
I've got to look up that article in the June, 2010 issue, Thanks!
mbinsewi Thanks Deano, nice to know about a local connection with the MILW. and their terminal caboose. Did your brother move on to work for the Soo?
I’m not Deano, but I wonder if his brother worked for the MILW just before the MILW-SOO merger, then continued to work for the SOO after the merger.
That gets me thinking, when did the MILW stop using these transfer cabeese? Would they still be around at the time of the merger with SOO and did they continue to work on the SOO after the merger, and did they receive SOO paint? It would be interesting to see this model in SOO as well as MILW.
SPSOT fanThat gets me thinking, when did the MILW stop using these transfer cabeese? Would they still be around at the time of the merger with SOO and did they continue to work on the SOO after the merger, and did they receive SOO paint?
According to the book on Milw Rd steel cabooses I mention earlier, some of them did last right to the end of the Milwaukee in 1985 although most had been scrapped and some sold or leased to other railroads such as 990003 which was leased to the Des Moines Union Railway and eventually found its way to the East Troy museum (Mike's prototype). Says the book: "The spartan little cars became a memory once the Milwakee was bought out by the Soo in 1985." Between the Milwaukee itself and the Soo there were more than enough "regular" cabooses available for transfer and yard work by then. I remember seeing them in Milwaukee orange but never in Soo Line paint or colors or even merely re-lettered as Soo. But they were widespread on the system so my observations are not definitive.
My prototype still carries the number 01738, you can see it over the doors. Not sure if that's the one your talking about Dave. Could be? And the plan I found is for the series 01731 - 01740.
I don't have the book Dave talks about.
I did just check out the article in the June, 2010 MRR. It looks like he might have modeled a different series, but it's a nice model, non the less.
And it sounds like Deano's older, late brother worked for the MILW well before the Soo, just by the way he (Deano) talked about him. Just making a guess here.
I do have a friend who's brother also worked for the MILW., just before, during and after the Soo take-over, and he rode the line between Milwaukee and Portage, and Milwaukee and Fond du Lac, WI., but he always talked about being in a regular caboose, until they weren't used any more.
I don't ever remember seeing them in Soo markings, either, but never followed the Soo in all of it's locations, just it's presence here in WI.
mbinsewiThis photo above is from 2016, since then, the end sills have been torched open, eliminating the poling pockets and side marker lights.
Did they actually remove the polling pockets or is this the other (locomotive) end of the tender frame?
Of course, a tender would only have polling pockets on one end. The end that carried the apron and drawbar would have to be modified to accept a standard draft gear and there wouldn't have been an end sill. Kind of hard to tell from the photos which end we're actually looking at.
Thanks for all the great background info
Cheers, Ed
Both ends have been torched open, the way my picture shows, not sure why.
Your could be right about the draw bar end, but the way the ends are cut open, they looked like they were the same, at one time, as whats left, after torching, is the same on both ends.
mbinsewi Thanks for the compliment, Harrison. Yours looks great! and everytime you build something, it'll get better, but there will always be little things that you might not like, and wish you did different. I'm just starting this, and there's a couple of things I'm not totally satisfied with. I like your steps! Which caboose model/manufacturer did you get the frame/steps from? Thanks Dave! Mike.
I uh, just built the caboose part on an old tyco caboose chassis. The article in the June 2010 model railroader says to use the stairs off of a walthers trainline caboose, and I was looking to jump start the project, sooo...
I've wanted to build one of these ever since the Alex Sansone article in the June 2010 Model Railroade, but I've had a heck of a time finding out info about steam engine tender frames!
I would be very, very, VERY interested in seeing more about how you built the frame. My inclination is to try using brass structural shapes for the sake of weight.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Thanks for the info Harrison, I did look at the article from the June, 2010 MRR.
I didn't have any old cabooses that I thought would work, or I would have done the same.
The steps on the prototype I'm following are 31" wide, and any old caboose I had, they are 24" wide, so I cut them apart, and used the sides as a guide. It was a lot of putzin' around. One of the areas that I could have done a better job!.
Bayfield Transfer RailwayI would be very, very, VERY interested in seeing more about how you built the frame
I built a somewhat simplified version of what I seen, while crawling under the car, trying to get pictures.
Scroll back to the top, and the picture I posted of the frame I built, sitting on the trucks.
Also scroll up to the picture I posted of the bolster / truck connection. There are two "main beams" running the length of the car, on each side of the bolster, and an outside beam/sill on each side. There were lots of cross members, the same size as the beams, along with some other steel I didn't include, which kind of looked like a depressed area, covered with sheet steel.
It was all very heavy duty, as you would expect a coal tender to be.
I built mine from styrene strips I cut, and for extra weight, I added the plates, hidden by the cab, as I'm not going to detail the interior.
Here's a couple more pictures showing the frame. Look above the trucks, and brake cyclinder, and you'll get an idea of the crossmembers.
Oh Mike! I like the Christmas lights!! Are you going to add those?!?
Oh yea! they used to get that out, decorate it, light it up, and use when Santa comes to town. Santa and crew ride the train from about 1 mile out of town, into the ETERR's station, Then Santa, Mrs Clause, and the helpers ride a horse drawn sleigh (when there's snow, or a horse drawn carriage) to the town square. It's a big deal here in town when Santa shows up. It's a sea of kids and parents that night, in down town East Troy.
BUT, I don't think they've used it the last couple of years. I think they used a flat car, all decorated up.
Naa, I'll skip the lights. It's going back to work on my railroad.
SPSOT fan mbinsewi Thanks Deano, nice to know about a local connection with the MILW. and their terminal caboose. Did your brother move on to work for the Soo? I’m not Deano, but I wonder if his brother worked for the MILW just before the MILW-SOO merger, then continued to work for the SOO after the merger. That gets me thinking, when did the MILW stop using these transfer cabeese? Would they still be around at the time of the merger with SOO and did they continue to work on the SOO after the merger, and did they receive SOO paint? It would be interesting to see this model in SOO as well as MILW.
mbinsewiThanks Dave ! I already filed down the angles before I installed them, and to hold on to the model, it looks OK, but when I took a picture in macro!
mbinsewiMy prototype still carries the number 01738, you can see it over the doors. Not sure if that's the one your talking about Dave. Could be? And the plan I found is for the series 01731 - 01740. I don't have the book Dave talks about.
According to the roster in the steel caboose book, Milwaukee cabooses went through several renumberings. 01738 was the original 1956 number of "your" caboose, part of a series of 10. Later it was 03 and then 990003. I wonder if it was perhaps leased to the Des Moines Union Ry while under its original number, and the Milwaukee assigned new numbers to it even though they did not have possession of it to repaint/renumber (in other words it was an "accounting/bookkeeping" number should it ever be returned, which of course it never was).
The excellent color scale drawing in the steel caboose book is of 01738 using that number. The drawing says it is of the caboose as it looked circa 1965.
All the Milwaukee Rd Historical Society books are highly recommended but their three part caboose series (wood; steel; rib sided) is particularly good.
By the way the book mentions that a total of 46 terminal cabooses were built using tender frames, but not all the same tenders but rather from different series of steam engines. Most but not all used the original tender trucks (and thus some had 33" wheels, some 36" wheels). The book says that oddly enough the original tender builder's plate remained on the frame. It also mentions that the cabooses were virtually indestrutable yet cost the Milwaukee just $6500 to $6700 each. Originally the Milwaukee converted just one tender as a test. Then came a series of ten such cabooses-from-tenders.
Then came the series of ten "your" caboose is from, and the tenders were from the big L-3 Mikados - those tenders carried 10,000 gallons of water and 16 tons of coal so these were heavier cabooses than the earlier ones.
It says the hand brakes, among the few new parts purchased from the outside, were Equipco. Additional handrailings for the roof were added 1960. Retention toilets replaced the original dry hoppers (i.e. the hole you could see the ties from) in the 1970s. That is also when two oblong windows on the car ends and the window in the toilet compartment were blanked off with sheet steel.
The book provides some information provided by an O scaler who scratchbuilt a model; while specific to O it might be useful to those in other scales. The main thing he says is to get the soldering of the railings correct and neat. One tip - that O scaler used roofwalk (ahem - "running boards") and roofwalk platforms from an Atlas O scale extended vision caboose which he said are ideal.
Well I can't retype the entire book here but again it is recommended to anyone taking on this project.
Thanks for the info Dave. I might just look around for that book. The last time I visited the MILW historical society, it wasn't availiable.
I don't know if I'll ever build another one,probably not, but it's great information. I'll do some "poking around"
I did some carefull filing on the angle irons I used for the roof walk supports, and managed to "thin" them down a bit, and do some trial fitting of the roof walk grating.
Looks a little better, I probably should have started over, but I'm going to leave these as is.
I continued on with adding more details to the cab. The fuel fill pipe, for the small tank located in that corner of the cab for the oil stove, the drip edge flashing above the doors and windows, the angle irons for the side hand rails, the ladders on each end, the marker lights on each corner of the cab, and fitting the Plano "apex" style roof walk.
That fill pipe might look big, well on the prototype, it is big, as they used the same nozzle to fill these tanks as they use to fill diesels.
I also added a fuel gauge.
Time for some sanding and getting ready for a coat of paint.
More to come.
Hi Mike,
Have you thought about adding lighting? I have a cheap and easy constant lighting circuit (thanks to Mark R.) which would do a great job of lighting up the marker lights and maybe an interior light too.
You can use a 25 volt capacitor if you are not comfortable running a 5 volt cap on 14 volts, but this circuit has never blown the capacitor.
The reed switch is optional, and latching reed switches can be hard to find, but any micro switch hidden under the shell would work.