I have three undecorated details west boxcars arriving this weekend. I've never painted a car with an artist's brush or an airbrush and therefore don't know how much paint to buy. The cars will be painted a single color (either BN green or Oxide Red) and white decals will be applied later. I will be using ModelFlex paint which is sold in 1 oz bottles. Since I'll practice first on some old athearn cars, I'm thinking two bottles should be plenty for practice and to finally paint a 50' boxcar, correct? Do I need to purchase a primer or any other additive to assist with the process? Thanks for any advice! :-)
Two bottles will be fine, gives you plenty to practice with.
Is it acrylic? or solvent base? I think most is acrylic now. Clean up with water, 70% alcohol (or 90, whatever you have), or you can use Windex for a cleaner, also. Solvent base, you'll need paint thinner, or lacquer thinner to clean up.
If your going to air brush, you'll probably need to thin. I use distilled water, but I THINK you can use the alcohol, check on that.
You want it about the consistancy of 2% milk, for spraying.
Primer is up to you. Many use the spray can primer.
Make sure the model is CLEAN. Finger prints will show up. I usually hold on to it with latex gloves, while painting.
Others will have things to add.
Mike.
My You Tube
Hi,
I will assume you are looking at HO scale models.......
The first thing you should do is wash the bodies of the cars with warm water (and a bit of dish soap) just to get any oils removed.
I don't believe a primer is necessary but some may disagree. I do believe that two coats of good well mixed paint should do a good job.
For three HO cars, I would think that two of the 1 oz jars should work just fine.
Using an airbrush is the best way to paint a rail car, but a can of quality model spray paint (like Tamiya) would be my second choice.
Yes, you can use a brush, but make sure the brush is of good quality, the paint is thin and flows on easily, and you brush in the same direction.
And of course, a practice run or two will be worth a world of experience!
Good Luck!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
What is the color of the plastic on the DW models? If they are a dark color like Athearn BB in black, a grey primer may be necessary to ensure coverage that does not show through. This is particularly true for the BN green. Also if you have added detail parts that are a different color than the base plastic primer will be necessary so all the parts will look the same color.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
While I'm not a fan of ModelFlex paint, I'll just mention that a bottle of paint might easily do a dozen cars if it were airbrushed.
Yes, there's an outlay for the airbrush and some time needed to practice to get somewhat proficient, but it might be something to keep in mind if you decide to get deeper into the hobby.
Wayne
Where's that embarrassed emoticon... I purchased a Badger 350 airbrush and compressor 20 years ago but never used it... At that time, I had read an MR article that said a 350 was good airbrush choice for a novice but that may or may not be the case today with a number of new models.
The DW cars are undecorated HO models and they are solid black in color. Sounds like a primer is likely needed. I also appreciate the heads up that cleanliness during preparation is huge.
I have not ordered any paint (no LHS within 120 miles) so changing paint company is easy enough to do. I was thinking Modelflex because no mixing or dilution is needed (as stated by the manufacturer but may/may not be true?) Dr Wayne, what is your paint brand of choice? I would be willing to use spray cans if they made BN green and oxide red. The more I've read about airbrushing, the more I realize there is a learning curve with a number of variables...
I don't have a paint booth and was planning on painting outdoors but may not be very a smart idea due to dust etc.
Looking around, Kelly Green appears to be a good match with BN green I'm going to play with bottle of Delta Creamcraft Kelly Green with a brush.
Scalecoat II has a 6 oz spray can of BN green for $11 that may be worth trying.
IDRick Dr Wayne, what is your paint brand of choice?
I'm not sure what Wayne will suggest but for the past five years or so I've been using Scalecoat paints exclusively for brass and plastic locomotive and rolling stock painting.
I prefer its high gloss finish which is ready for decals without the added step of applying a gloss clear coat before decals are applied.
https://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/category-s/127.htm
It is a solvent-based paint so there is a little more involved with cleanup but with planning and the right solvents cleanup is fairlt routine.
PRR_X-42 by Edmund, on Flickr
You must practice, then practice some more before getting to your final project. Be sure to have a holding fixture for the car bodies so you can paint, and set the car down for drying, without excessive handling.
Goos Luck, Ed
IDRick I would be willing to use spray cans if they made BN green and oxide red.
I would be willing to use spray cans if they made BN green and oxide red.
Scalecoat II comes in 6 oz spray cans in both of those colors.
IDRick...Dr Wayne, what is your paint brand of choice?...
For freight cars and locomotives, my preference would be Pollyscale, but only because I'm fortunate to have a fairly good supply of it. It covers well, dries quickly, and is durable. It's also suitable for brush painting, levelling well and yet drying fairly rapidly.I also invested fairly heavily in Scalecoat, when it seemed that it too might disappear. While it's a good durable paint, it dries much too slowly for my tastes and practices.I do a fair amount of steam locomotive painting for myself and friends, and I can do a five colour (well, five variations on black) in a single session using Pollyscale, while the same locomotive and colours done with Scalecoat is at least 15 days, due to its slower drying time between colour changes.For these jobs, I seldom do masking with tape, and prefer to simply shield the just-painted area with a piece of cardstock while I spray an adjacent area with another shade. If I happen to get some of the second colour on the one first applied, with Pollyscale I simply change the bottle back to the first colour, and overspray the error - by that time, the second colour would have already been dry-to-the-touch...very simple and quick. With the Scalecoat, I still use the cardstock as a mask, but because some of the colour separations need to be very distinct, the card has to be touching the area which it shields - not possible if the first-applied colour is not at least dry to the touch.My paint shop is in my garage, about 100' behind the house, and heating it for a painting session in the winter is not too big of an issue.However, heating it every three or four days to use Scalecoat, in order to apply one colour is a nuisance, and it's not that easy transporting freshly-painted items, still wet, through the cold air, let alone if it's also snowing. Each item has to be carried either on the holder used when painting or with my hand inside it, to avoid marring the still tacky fresh paint.During the summer, it's somewhat better, as I can leave freshly-painted items in the paint shop, allowing them to dry there.With Pollyscale, I can put multiple just-painted items, loose, each in their own box, within a larger covered box, and take them back to the house where they can sit while the paint cures.Before that, since the mid-'50s, Floquil was my paint of choice, but the only Floquil I miss now is their grey primer.I do use other paints, depending on the particular job: SMP Accupaint (I still have quite a bit of their CNR Green #11) for passenger cars, is a favourite, and I do use Tamiya and some Testors paints, along with Humbrol and a few other types. I also go through a lot of Testors Dullcote and Glosscote. For solvent-based paints, including Scalecoat, Dullcote, and Glosscote, I use ordinary lacquer thinner - it does speed the drying time of Scalecoat somewhat, but I feel that it also weakens that paint's durability. For Dull- and Glosscote, there is no drying time needed between coats - once you've covered all sides of an item, the area first-done is ready for another light coat, and this (as well as when using Pollyscale) is a real timesaver when doing multiple items, as is my preference.
For clean-up, I use lacquer thinner, whether the paint is solvent-based or water based, it does the job equally well.
The first time I was able to successfully spray Pollyscale (and I struggled with it for some time before that) I painted four dozen boxcars in various versions of boxcar red, switching colour bottles and/or mixing new versions as I worked. An absolutely beautiful experience to suddenly "get it" and accomplish so much.
I only use acrylics - Protopaint, Acryl, craft paints, etc. I pretty much ran out of Pollyscale. As pointed out by Wayne, they do dry fast and it takes a bit of practice to use them with an airbrush. I always use two bottles during my painting sessions: one for the paint, and one with demineralized water. Between coats, it's important to switch bottles and clean the nozzle by flushing the nozzle with water against a rag.
Simon
Thanks, lots of helpful information! I think I will put these new models away and plan on finishing them next year after I retire. Meanwhile, I'll get some paint and play around a bit to see which I like best. Plus, practice, practice and practice to achieve a degree of proficiency.
I reached out to several companies yesterday and about half replied. I received a thorough reply from Modelers Decals & Paints, and probably will start off using their product in my airbrush.
IDRick I purchased a Badger 350 airbrush and compressor 20 years ago but never used it...
That's what I have, and use. It works for what I do.
snjroy I only use acrylics - Protopaint, Acryl, craft paints, etc. I pretty much ran out of Pollyscale. As pointed out by Wayne, they do dry fast and it takes a bit of practice to use them with an airbrush. I always use two bottles during my painting sessions: one for the paint, and one with demineralized water. Between coats, it's important to switch bottles and clean the nozzle by flushing the nozzle with water against a rag. Simon
Hi there. I have used craft paints on rolling stock. I can't remember the makes... I have some Ceramcoat bottles in my stash, and don't remember much of a difference with the other brands.
Generally speaking, the finish of the craft paints is not quite as fine as with higher quality paint: I end up with a bit of an egg-shell finish on mine. But I find it acceptable for rolling stock. I can't really comment on durability though, and I would recommend a good primer first. i find that the tricky part is to get the right thickness - I start with something thicker and go with trial and error with my airbrush by gradually adding thinner (I use Vallejo solvent for acrylics). There is a lot of variability between colors... I also use a strainer, and mix the paint thoroughly first. I'm told that the pigments for the craft paints are not as fine as the higher quality paints.
My experience with the craft type acrylics, is the pigment is pretty thick compared to other model paints, and it does take some practice with thinning and application.
I used on my buildings, and I did a lot of experimenting to get it to spray with good results. Of course, you can put up with a little bit uneveness painting a brick wall, but not on the side of a box car. I've never tried it on rolling stock.
I'm thinking, using it with rolling stock, your need to gloss coat it after everything dries good, do your decals, and then you can fade or weather to your liking.
I've used distilled water, and alcohol, with mixed results, so using the craft acrylic thinner that Mel mentions makes sense.
As Symon mentions, keeping a bottle of water handy is good advise, as the thicker pigments can dry out and clog a gun real fast. When you start to notice the blobs, it's time to clean.
I'm sure there are others in here who use the craft paints, and will chime in with tips and techniques.
IDRick Do I need to purchase a primer or any other additive to assist with the process?
Do I need to purchase a primer or any other additive to assist with the process?
Just wanted to make sure you understood primer isn't an additive. It's the first coat of paint you would put on before painting the car the color or colors you want for the final product. I generally use Tamiya spray can primer gray, it's nozzle is designed to create a much finer spray than the typical "rattle can" does. I also use Tamiya spray cans for the gloss finish coat needed to seal in the paint and allow for a smooth surface for decaling, and for the flat finish coat to seal in decals.
wjstix IDRick Do I need to purchase a primer or any other additive to assist with the process? Just wanted to make sure you understood primer isn't an additive. It's the first coat of paint you would put on before painting the car the color or colors you want for the final product. I generally use Tamiya spray can primer gray, it's nozzle is designed to create a much finer spray than the typical "rattle can" does. I also use Tamiya spray cans for the gloss finish coat needed to seal in the paint and allow for a smooth surface for decaling, and for the flat finish coat to seal in decals.
Thanks Stix, good catch. I do know that a primer is not an additive but the earlier sentence gave an incorrect impression.
snjroy Hi there. I have used craft paints on rolling stock. I can't remember the makes... I have some Ceramcoat bottles in my stash, and don't remember much of a difference with the other brands. Generally speaking, the finish of the craft paints is not quite as fine as with higher quality paint: I end up with a bit of an egg-shell finish on mine. But I find it acceptable for rolling stock. I can't really comment on durability though, and I would recommend a good primer first. i find that the tricky part is to get the right thickness - I start with something thicker and go with trial and error with my airbrush by gradually adding thinner (I use Valejo solvent for acrylics). There is a lot of variability between colors... I also use a strainer, and mix the paint thoroughly first. I'm told that the pigments for the craft paints are not as fine as the higher quality paints. Simon
Generally speaking, the finish of the craft paints is not quite as fine as with higher quality paint: I end up with a bit of an egg-shell finish on mine. But I find it acceptable for rolling stock. I can't really comment on durability though, and I would recommend a good primer first. i find that the tricky part is to get the right thickness - I start with something thicker and go with trial and error with my airbrush by gradually adding thinner (I use Valejo solvent for acrylics). There is a lot of variability between colors... I also use a strainer, and mix the paint thoroughly first. I'm told that the pigments for the craft paints are not as fine as the higher quality paints.
OK, I see, and I bet your going to use the formula that uses the vodka?
Awww, come on Mike... Ya know, little for the airbrush, little for me! I share! LOL
IDRick snjroy Hi there. I have used craft paints on rolling stock. I can't remember the makes... I have some Ceramcoat bottles in my stash, and don't remember much of a difference with the other brands. Generally speaking, the finish of the craft paints is not quite as fine as with higher quality paint: I end up with a bit of an egg-shell finish on mine. But I find it acceptable for rolling stock. I can't really comment on durability though, and I would recommend a good primer first. i find that the tricky part is to get the right thickness - I start with something thicker and go with trial and error with my airbrush by gradually adding thinner (I use Valejo solvent for acrylics). There is a lot of variability between colors... I also use a strainer, and mix the paint thoroughly first. I'm told that the pigments for the craft paints are not as fine as the higher quality paints. Simon Simon, have you ever used one of the "Make your own" thinners? MRH has an excellent publication "guide to acrylic painting in a post Floquil world" that gives three formulas for making your own thinners. I'm going to try one of them with Delta Ceramcoat. May result in better craft paint coverage and less clogging of the airbrush. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
snjroy I haven't, I should look it up. Some have used auto window washer fluid, or added a few drops of alcohol to distilled water. I should say that I am by no means an expert on this.
I haven't, I should look it up. Some have used auto window washer fluid, or added a few drops of alcohol to distilled water. I should say that I am by no means an expert on this.
Well, you have used craft paints more than once and you're more than 200 miles from Idaho, so that makes you an expert, right?
Well, LION is thinking at least five gallons, but that car needs a lot of work. Id want to scrape it and prime it frist, Lets budget at least for 15 gqllons.
And what about the inside?
ROARING
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Thoroughly mix the craft paint, strain it, then thin it, majorly. (My craft paint mixes are generally started at about 10% paint to 90% thinner, then I adjust as needed, based on coverage.)
I spray at 25-30 PSI as well, so it will need to be thinner to be sprayed at a lower PSI.
I use a mix of Acrylic Airbrush Medium (Golden brand from the crafts store, I stock up with their handy coupons.) and Distilled water with a few drops of Liquitex Flow Aid (again crafts store) added in. (About 80% is airbrush medium.)
And then mix again! (Stir style powered paint mixers are very well suited for this.)
These paints will dry very quickly, so a big bottle of airbrush cleaner goes to the paint booth with me. (I use a distilled water/isopropyl alcohol/dish soap mix for cleaner. Then I rinse with more distilled water.)
This will also dry to a dead-flat finish, so a coulpe coats of gloss will be needed before decaling. (I use acrylic gloss coats as well. Currently ones by Model Master, and Modelflex, again from the crafts store when possible.)
Yes, the pigment isn’t as fine, so use lighter than normal coats to avoid obscuring details, but they are way cheaper than model paint, and are better (In my opinion) when doing any kind of weathering work, being they dry so flat.
And a good primer is highly recommended.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Excellent, thanks for the detailed information. It's always helpful to mention product names and you were thorough in your commentary. There's a number of good primers out there, which do you prefer? Thanks again!
Currently I am using primer from Acrylicos Vallejo, as it is a acrylic based polyurethane primer, so the same cleanup as regular acrylic paints. And, it comes airbrush ready.
I will point out, that, when I mix using craft paints, I am still aiming for a skim milk consistancy, and have found that very little paint to a lot of thinner medium goes a long way. 80-90% thinner ends up just about where I need it.
I use Scalecoat 2 99% of the time.
.
For a single freight car I mix 4ml paint with 3ml thinner.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
As mentioned, the key is to practice on throw away cars first. My first attempt at serious weathering (decades ago) was an Athearn BB CN light grey covered hopper. It (to me) had no place on my 1950s ATSF layout so it was a good test subject.
Well, my efforts proved my decision to use a throw away car to be excellent! While the results with this car were not acceptable, I did manage to learn proper techniques which worked well on the second try.
Not to buck conventional wisdom here, but I've found the Tamiya spray cans to be really good for painting models.