Hello all --
I have a Proto 2000 GP38 that I'm working on. The engine came with dcc installed, but it would run sluggishly, so I've disassembled it and cleaned out the trucks, going to replace the dcc controller. But...
The reason it's "sluggish" is that the motor won't rotate very well. I'd like to replace the motor with another one (which I don't have yet, not even sure what to get). But first, I have to remove the old motor from its mount.
The problem is: how the heck do I get the motor apart from the frame? It's held in by 4 rubber "plugs" of some sort. How do I pry this thing out?
Tips and instruction needed. I've never attempted anything like this before. Without knowing exactly what I need to do, I know I'm gonna break it. I don't care about the motor, but I need the frame intact. Thanks...
You might have to pull the plastic fuel tank off in order to get access to the bottom of each of the four nubs. The tank is usually held in place by super-sticky double sided tape. This happens to be an old FA-2 but yours will be similar.
LL_motor-mount2 by Edmund, on Flickr
The motor on the left is, IIRC, an Athearn. Showing how similar their mounts are.
Then I give the nubs a light spray of silicone or, if you have some, Armor All that will work. Then just rock the motor side-to-side and eventually one pair or nubs will pull free. You may have to help them a little with a wide flat screw driver.
LL_motor-mount1a by Edmund, on Flickr
LL_motor-mount1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Here are the two rubbery motor mounts. Athearn uses a similar method but some of their newer ones use a screw and washer into the nub.
LL_motor-mounts by Edmund, on Flickr
To put it back in, align the four nubs and press straight down.
Have you tried a drop or two of thin oil (CRC 2-26 or De-Ox-It) on each shaft bearing? I have twenty-year old Proto locomotives and don't recall that a motor had ever gone bad. Haven't replaced any brushes that I recall either.
Some of the early PAs had high current draw but they still ran good. I would check the current draw of your motor. Maybe the brushes are worn out? Check the brush springs. Inspect the commutator and clean it.
{edit} I should add: I use a silver "Sharpie" pen to mark an F on the front of the frame and I also mark the trucks and motor so that they are properly oriented when I get back to the reassembly process. It is amazing how often I forget how something goes back together. Also, try to keep track of different sized screws. Sometimes I return them to their original tapped hole while performing the work so I avoid getting them mixed up.
Cheers, Ed
Good pictures Ed, as Ed says, just rock the motor back and forth, and work it loose.
You might want to arm yourself with a new set, just in case. If it's the older "white" colored mounts, they have a tendency to dry out and the "nubs" break off.
I've never had the motor out of mine, so I'm not exactly sure which type they used.
The Athearn motor mounts should work.
Mike.
My You Tube
Well, I tried getting the motor out, and broke it in the process. Bent one shaft end where the flywheel is. I got the motor mount out as well, but broke it apart in the process. The frame is OK (as is the rest of the engine), but now I have no motor/flywheels or mount.
The mounting system is one of the dumbest bits of engineering I've seen. No way to take it out easily. I see that some newer engines have motor mounts that are held in by screws (4 or 2). MUCH better design.
I'd like to replace the motor, but I'm wondering if I'll find one to fit in place of the old one. Might be a case of keeping an eye out on ebay until something shows up. I need a motor that is no longer than 1 7/16" (36mm), with small flywheels and some kind of coupling installed. (Anyone got an old Proto2000 GP38 around they want to get rid of?)
A question about motor mounts in general: The chassis on the Proto2000 GP38 has 4 holes, they seem to be spaced approximately 10mm apart horizontally. I see that the Athearn mounts, like this:
... might fit a replacement motor, not necessarily an Athearn.
If anyone has a mount like this in your parts box, could you check the spacing of "the stalks" -- to see if they're about 10mm ??
OldEnginemanWell, I tried getting the motor out, and broke it in the process. Bent one shaft end where the flywheel is. I got the motor mount out as well, but broke it apart in the process.
Wow, just how did you take it out? big hammer and crowbar? I don't get how you bent the shaft with the flywheel?
Didn't you completely remove the drive shafts from each end and strip it down to the bare motor first?
I fail to see how you did that.
Oh well, new motor time, and those mounts with the screws are good, but to remove the motor, you still have to wiggle it back and forth. The screws just expand the rubber nubs to tighten it all up.
It will not just fall out when you remove the screws.
I'll go down and measure what I have. Not sure if I have the screw type.
Good luck,
EDIT: I have some newer mounts, with screws, and they are 10mm, center to center.
LL_motor-mount-ath-OA by Edmund, on Flickr
LL_motor-mount-ath by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Just before I called it quits last night, I stumbled onto the following site:
hodieselsupply.com
Seems to be up in the Manchester, NH area.
And low-and-behold, there was a replacement motor for a Proto2000 GP38, at a very reasonable price (25). So I bought it. Comes with the motor mounts with the little screws, flywheels, drive connectors - ready to drop in!
So perhaps I have a route to get this back together.
Oddly enough, when the old motor was in the frame, it seemed reluctant to rotate. Once I got it OUT of the frame, even with the bent shaft, it spins easily (sigh).
Next step is to get the motor back into the frame, get the drivetrain together, and see if it works on dc. Then... try to get it going on dcc.
OldEnginemanOddly enough, when the old motor was in the frame, it seemed reluctant to rotate. Once I got it OUT of the frame, even with the bent shaft, it spins easily (sigh).
Are you sure you bent the shaft? I've had some L-L engines where the flywheel interferes with the cavity it sits in. If it isn't aligned perfectly it will scrape and make noise. Sometimes there is a little flash on the die-cast metal.
You said in your first post the motor was stiff and I replied that this is not a normal occurrence with these motors. If the shaft was already bent that would surely make the motor turn stiff.
Glad you found a replacement motor. By the way, have you checked the axle gears for cracks? I can't say for sure on the GP-38 but MANY early Life-Like engines suffer from cracked axle gears.
Proto_gear-2 by Edmund, on Flickr
This whole things seems very non-typical, as far as the motor removal. I wonder if a previous owner had dumped some type of adhesive in and around the motor, from the inside?
I guess signs of residue or remants of the adhesive would still be noticable, if it was used.
And the bent shaft? I've never know that to happen, but who knows? I certainly haven't "seen them all".
As Ed suggest, checking the axle gears is a great idea. You can get the gears, and replace that way, or you can get the axle assembled, with NS wheels, as a "drop in" replacement.
Keep us posted, please!