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Falling cost of brass

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Falling cost of brass
Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 4:52 PM

Well the bug hit me and I bought a Westside Models class A climax, almost mint in box. $225 out the door. I always wanted one of these. So how many of you jump on brass on occasion due to the price coming way down?

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 5:31 PM

I jumped at the chance to buy a United Models Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 for $125.00 in great condition.

I couldn't say no to that price.

Larry

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 5:41 PM

Over the past 3-4 years I've bought a few NYC-specific brass locomotives for my roster.  All of them were "pre-owned but they were in very good shape cosmetically - particularly a nearly mint H-10a 2-8-2 Mike I've had a hanker for, for a while:

Eventually I'll paint and detail it but I want to convert it DCC first.

A few more brass NYC locomotives on my bucket list but I can wait:

  • NYC L-2a 4-8-2 Mohawk w/exposed Elesco FWH
  • NYC H-7 2-8-2 Mike w/Elesco FWH
  • NYC NE-2 2-6-6-2 switcher
  • NYC DES-3 GE 3-power boxcab

It's fun to have some unique and unusal locomotives that - more than likely - will NEVER be offered in plastic.

Tom

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Posted by micktropolis on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 5:42 PM

I've been keeping a close eye out myself for certain pieces for sure. Having made the jump to DCC and wanting sound has made investing in (pre-owened and older) brass a little more difficult however. 

I haven't purchased any brass besides my BLI 4-12-2, but I see adding some more unique UP steam to the roster that isn't available in plastic. Assuming I can get the jump on them.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 6:06 PM

I have been thrilled with the bargains on brass out there lately.

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I have accumulated a full fleet of can motored USRA designs that were imported in the 1980s for less than I paid for my PowerHouse USRA Light Mikados when they were new.

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-Kevin

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 7:25 PM

I got this for $35.00. I won't chase it but will pounce when the oppourtunity presents itself.

  

I would like to get it shiny again.

 

Brent

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:30 PM

One thing I notice is how many sellers try to "clear out" their inventory when a mass-market locomotive is announced. Presently I'm seeing it with PRR P5a electrics. Before that it was the PRR S2 Turbine, Baldwin Centipedes and a few others that escape me at the moment.

Market forces at work. Just about all the brass I've acquired were bought at what I would consider below the "market average". It all gets painted and RUN.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:35 PM

Depends on your poison.  Maybe some steam engines of apparent lessor demand but brass D&RGW cabooses and passenger cars seem to stay expensive from what I've seen so no such luck in my genre of interest.  It seems brass isn't falling for all of us.

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Posted by emdmike on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 8:45 PM

I have been buying brass since it wasnt such a good bargain.  I remember what my PFM/United Shays cost me back in the late 1990's, along with a few of the Overland diesels I got from a local mail order dealer that let locals pick up models at thier office(Broad Ripple Station).  These days, the high detail, yet fragile, plastic models have driven the prices of many brass trains way down.  Add to that the glut of models from estates hitting the open market, its a buyers market to say the least. I have become a bit more selective in what I buy as I have many more hobbies that take up my spending $$ these days.  But all of my motive power for my layout I am building are brass, all from Overland Models.   Mike the Aspie

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:14 PM

BATMAN
I got this for $35.00.

Does it run?

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Posted by Howard Zane on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:20 PM

Yup, brass prices have dropped during the last half decade. Main reasons are...number one is the basic law of economics...currently supply exceeds demand as many older guys who purchased brass during the heyday of the late 20th are either passing away or retiring and moving to smaller quarters....henceforth many collections are now on the market. Second reason would be the huge preponderance of RTR plastic everythngs complete with DCC, lights, sound, and excellent finishes. Another reason is that most brass is of steam prototypes (or the really collectible), and each year we grow further from steam modeling. Then there is the ignorance factor as many newbies to the hobby just do not know about brass models. Example: During the 90's the Timonium show had at least 35 brass vendors attend most shows. Today, there are just two dealers, but still brass does show up at some tables, but not like in days of yore.

Current new brass models are approaching costs where most modelers, even though they can afford it, just say no. Many builders may cease production, and importers may go the way of the phone booth. Then within a few years the supply may dwindle coupled to brass no longer being produced and the economic law may again go into effect, but only in reverse....demand could exceed supply.

Now would be a good time to enter the brass world.....tomorrow???

HZ

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:23 PM

maxman

 

 
BATMAN
I got this for $35.00.

 

Does it run?

 

Still, haven't tried it. The wheels look like they have not touched a rail, not a mark on them. It is on the project shelf. GN came into Vancouver, so it will be just fine on the layout....some day.

Brent

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Posted by emdmike on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:28 PM

Its a PFM/United model, it WILL run!   Might need the motor turned a little bit by hand first as many times there is oxidation under the brushes and the motor needs a quarter to half turn to take off and run.  Fresh grease in the gearbox and oil the motor, axle and side rods and she is good to go!  PFM/United have to be one of the best built models for operation.  A replacement Canon motor would be a good upgrade to her.      Mike the Aspie

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 9:32 PM

emdmike
it WILL run!

That's what I like to hear Mike.Big Smile Now, how do I make it shiny?

 

Brent

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 11:42 PM

Howard Zane

Yup, brass prices have dropped during the last half decade. Main reasons are...number one is the basic law of economics...currently supply exceeds demand as many older guys who purchased brass during the heyday of the late 20th are either passing away or retiring and moving to smaller quarters....henceforth many collections are now on the market. Second reason would be the huge preponderance of RTR plastic everythngs complete with DCC, lights, sound, and excellent finishes. Another reason is that most brass is of steam prototypes (or the really collectible), and each year we grow further from steam modeling. Then there is the ignorance factor as many newbies to the hobby just do not know about brass models. Example: During the 90's the Timonium show had at least 35 brass vendors attend most shows. Today, there are just two dealers, but still brass does show up at some tables, but not like in days of yore.

Current new brass models are approaching costs where most modelers, even though they can afford it, just say no. Many builders may cease production, and importers may go the way of the phone booth. Then within a few years the supply may dwindle coupled to brass no longer being produced and the economic law may again go into effect, but only in reverse....demand could exceed supply.

Now would be a good time to enter the brass world.....tomorrow???

HZ

 

Yeh. Went to San Francisco recently and ran accross a working phone stand, we took pictures with that in it, times have changed.

 

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, March 28, 2019 12:17 AM

Howard Zane
Now would be a good time to enter the brass world.....tomorrow???

Club has a narrow gage railroad.  This being Pennsylvania, it should be the EBT.  For whatever reason, at this late stage of my life I thought it might be nice to have an EBT 2-8-2.  Looked around a little and saw that BrassTrains had one that sold for $495.  I suppose a bargin compared to the one I found on EBAY that sold this past March for $1025.

"Tomorrow"?  Sorry gents.  I don't care how nice you try to convince me brass is.  At those prices I'm not buying one.  Not now, not tomorrow, never.

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Thursday, March 28, 2019 2:31 AM

maxman
 =

 

Club has a narrow gage railroad.  This being Pennsylvania, it should be the EBT.  For whatever reason, at this late stage of my life I thought it might be nice to have an EBT 2-8-2.  Looked around a little and saw that BrassTrains had one that sold for $495.  I suppose a bargin compared to the one I found on EBAY that sold this past March for $1025.

 

 

 

That loco is pretty rare. They always fetch high prices. Unlikely to see an EBT loco in plastic anytime soon. It just depends what you are looking for.

I have noticed a general downward trend in brass prices of roads that I follow over the past few years. There are always the exceptions.

At O scale West last year there were lots of tables piled high with brass locos for sale - mostly estates....

 

Guy

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, March 28, 2019 4:36 AM

Mike,That is one sweet looking 2-8-0..Is that a C&O G9 2-8-0?

Larry

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, March 28, 2019 7:06 AM

BATMAN

 

 
emdmike
it WILL run!

 

That's what I like to hear Mike.Big Smile Now, how do I make it shiny?

 

 

Badger sandblaster with some soda... does wonders.

Simon

 

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Posted by emdmike on Thursday, March 28, 2019 9:03 AM

It was a C&O G9, early run by Rok Am for Overland Models.  That is the closest to the ex BC&G 2-8-0 that the Logansport & Eel River RR owned back then.  She has an odd driver spacing when compared to others. BLI did the Ohio Central(current owner of the engine) but the driver spacing is incorrect.  Only detail I did not try to model is the open space where the second cross compound air compressor used to be on the real loco.   While Rok Am wasn't the best Korean builder by far, most of them in those early days struggled with quality control as they learned the craft. Thankfully mine runs really smooth and quiet.  I pulled the gear box, cleaned all the old hard grease out and regreased.  She is Sagami powered, as is the GP35.   Here is  a pic of the GP35's drive chassis.   I gave $100 for this engine, the 2-8-0 was $450ish if I remember right.  Its a bit harder to come by, so I was ok paying the piper for it.   

Here is a few more of my brass engines

Lindsey cast brass NW2 from the late 1940's  USA made brass!

Tenshodo DM&IR woodside caboose

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, March 28, 2019 9:27 PM

Thanks Simon.

I joined the FB group "Brass Model Paint and Repair". I have a lot to learn.Laugh

No photo description available.

Brent

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Posted by FRRYKid on Friday, March 29, 2019 1:54 AM

Howard Zane

Current new brass models are approaching costs where most modelers, even though they can afford it, just say no.

I will be entering the brass world at some point. (All the rest of my rolling stock is plastic - kits, RTR and some kitbashed.) I have made a reservation for a brass caboose. I took a bit of discussion with some friends as I thought the price was a bit much but was told it was within reason. It is a caboose that I want for my railroad (I had thought of buiding one in plastic). At least one of them ran through my hometown and the seller is letting me make payments so that helps the budget.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, March 29, 2019 6:38 AM

Howard Zane

Yup, brass prices have dropped during the last half decade. Main reasons are...number one is the basic law of economics...currently supply exceeds demand as many older guys who purchased brass during the heyday of the late 20th are either passing away or retiring and moving to smaller quarters....henceforth many collections are now on the market. Second reason would be the huge preponderance of RTR plastic everythngs complete with DCC, lights, sound, and excellent finishes.

Demand being the key principle.  Unfortunately for me, the models I need (brass D&RGW standard guage cabooses) remains high so the prices seem to be holding steady or in some cases are higher.

Another reason is that most brass is of steam prototypes (or the really collectible), and each year we grow further from steam modeling. Then there is the ignorance factor as many newbies to the hobby just do not know about brass models.

It hasn't been lost on me that the main subject of this topic is steam engines so it follows - great for steam fans, which I am not so much for a number of reasons.

So as far as this topic goes, yes, but it depends.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, March 29, 2019 7:00 AM

riogrande5761
It hasn't been lost on me that the main subject of this topic is steam engines so it follows - great for steam fans,

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I have far more brass freight cars that I do brass locmotives.

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They are all painted, so they don't look brass anymore, but I have also enjoyed the falling prices on brass freight cars. Many times they are lower cost than a quality resin kit.

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I paid about $100.00 for both of these brass covered hopper cars.

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Also, all of the STRATTON AND GILLETTE cabooses are brass. Again, more falling prices has made this easy.

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-Kevin

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Posted by emdmike on Friday, March 29, 2019 9:20 AM

I have found many brass freight cars/cabooses without boxes and mixed in amoung the plastic stuff in the pop can flats that dealers use at shows.  I light "tink tink" with my fingernail on the side of the model tells me quickly if its brass or plastic.  While I prefer original boxes, for the right price, its not a deal killer.  Right now, train shows is the best place for killer deals on brass.  Ebay can be hit or miss and takes lots of looking and knowing what your looking at.  Nice looking freight cars and cabooses Kevin!   Mike the Aspie

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 29, 2019 9:52 AM

speaking of dealer boxes, I once bought a United 0-6-0 with fair paint at a show for $15, dealer did not even know it was there. On another occasion  a brass dealer let me buy an Ambroid kit, built and painted very well for a poultry car for $5. Those can still bring $50 or more as alot of people, like myself, like to have a few unusual cars in their yards. In the same vein I just bought a couple of Eastern Car Works 40' depresed center flat cars and those can go for a premium too, even as kits (which mine are.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, March 29, 2019 10:17 AM

emdmike
Nice looking freight cars and cabooses Kevin! 

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Thank you Mike. There is another one of those PRR H30 brass covered hopper cars at Train Central in Indianapolis. I have resisted it twice, but if it is still there next time I am in Indiana, I am buying it.

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-Kevin

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, March 29, 2019 11:24 AM

SeeYou190
I have far more brass freight cars that I do brass locmotives

Because brass has historically been priced beyond my typical budget, I've only sprung for items I really needed for my RR and time frame. 

In order to have a correct combine for my Rio Grande Zephyr, I resorted to brass, my first brass car here, and I bought it even while married to my first wife who was very antagonistic to the hobby.

I also sprung for some brass cabooses because so far, no correct D&RGW cabooses have been made in plastic.  To me, having signature cabooses makes a huge difference.  Here are 3 of the 6 I have presently:

Thankfully I haven't needed to bother with brass freight cars because the plastic market has offered me about everything I could wish for and in many cases, more accurate and better detailed.

The only brass freight cars I might have considered are brass auto racks, which apparently aren't very runable, D&RGW "Pressed Steel" box cars, which were inly in company service in the 70's and correct GS gondolas - which were silly expensive and the Red Caboose ones are pretty decent stand-in's.  Otherwise, the plastic market has been truly awesome!

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Friday, March 29, 2019 5:52 PM

i think the reason brass demand has gone down is that it used to be brass models were prototypically accurate, but that's not the case any more.  Mass produced models look as good or better, run better, are available with DCC and sound already installed.

I have a few brass models; a 1990s Overland NW-5, for instance, which will never be in plastic (or very unlikely.)  My Challenger MILW GP-30 is just a disappointment; though it looks good, it is wrong in several details including an incorrect rear plow, and drop steps and safety chains.  The Proto GP-30 is simply a better model.  And the Overland SRR F3 with rooftop air tanks was so incorrect in terms of the piping I simply returned it.

"What's so special about brass" is simply a question that for most people nowadays, the answer is "nothing."

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

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Posted by emdmike on Friday, March 29, 2019 7:55 PM

Kev, Train Central is closed for a bit, they got forced to move.  They are going to be on north Shadeland Ave now in the 1600 block if I remember right.  They should have the new address up on the website once they are going again.  I figure a month or two to get moved and set back up again.  They have to be out of the old shop by this Sunday.  New location is in a strip mall, much better parking and it wont be a challenge to get across traffic pulling out and not getting nailed by cross traffic.   Even today brass importers are screwing up stuff with incorrect paint schemes or detail issues and at the current price for an HO scale brass diesel, I will stick to older stuff.  I am not such a nit picker to complain about slight detail issues.  I just prefer my engines be metal, be it diecast or brass.     Mike the Aspie

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