We have a review of this locomotive coming in the May issue.
The tender is a tight fit on the frame, but it gets easier after you've removed it a few times.
Whatever you do - DO NOT remove the screw holding the trucks on. There is a nut on the other end that may come loose. On the sample I worked on, the nut that came loose was the one under the TCS motherboard. To reattach the truck, I had to remove the motherboard, being very careful of its fine wires.
Fortunately, it all went back together fine.
Eric
Thanks Rich,
I was a biut hasty, but of all the steam engines I have and have ever encountered, I have never seen the "Y" shaped drawbar used before.
Thescrews that need to be removed are directly below the rear axle of the front tender truck and the front axle of the rear tender truck. Swiveling them aside still will not allow enough room to put a screwdriver shaft straight in on them.
Bachmann should have had a directions sheet describing and with some sort of pictures to illustrate what is required.
The reason I chose the K4 streamline is my layout theme is based on the PRR from the early 1940's until the late 1950's.
Both my Uncle and my Dad worked on the Pennsy when I was very young , up until I was about 6 years old.
Dad was brakeman and my Uncle was a steam engine engineer dating back to just before World War Two and was exempted from military service as was my dad, but Dad decided to join the Navy and served aboard a fletcher class destroyer in the Pacific theater of operations.
Dad returned home and worked for the Pennsy again for awhile, until he and my uncle went into the fiberglass boat business.
The company was first known as Crosby Aeromarine Boats.
Later the nme was changed to Midwestern Industries Hydrodyne boats.
In 1963 First Lady Jackie Kennedy ordered a custom built Hydrodyne for a gift to her husband, President John F Kennedy.
Ironically it rolled off the assembly line just two hours prior to his death in Dallas Texas on November 22nd 1963.
It was put into storage until awhile later when the Secret service showed up to tow it to Washington D.C.
Apparently Mrs Kennedy never used it, and the secret service used it for family outings on the Potomac.
Where it is today ( if it still exists) is unknown to any of my relation.
We also built a custom built offshore racing boat for US astronauts Gordon Cooper and Gus Grissom.
The boat was named "Miss Firebird" and the Pure Oil Compny was their major sponsor
It had dual controls and the Pure Oil Company Firebird was emblazoned on its front deck.
They ran a race on the Mississippi river from New Orleans to St Louis Missouri with it.
The K4Kid
A few years ago I remember a short with a tender swap using the jumpers. The jumpers I quickly realized swapped all three functions. Had to rewire the tender PC board and the tender was wired for light bulb in the loco, not for an LED.
I saw questions in the Bachmann forums about tender wiring a few times.
As far as joining the forums, over the years I left the forums and eventually joined again. No problem joining. I was immediately accepted. It was automatic. Used a new name.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Here is the orignal text of my post on improving Bachmann locos:
The following are a number of small improvements I have developed, in some cases with the help of others, for many of the current and recent Bachmann HO locomotives, mostly those in their Spectrum line.
After mentioning some of these items in another post, John requested I elaberate. Much of this info I have posted before, either here or on the Bachmann board, but for those who missed those - here goes:
But first a disclaimer - I run DC, using Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless throttles. Some of my performance related changes are directly related to the use these throttles or in some cases, you may see an improvement with any DC throttle, but maybe not to the same degree as the Train Engineer which has a pulse width modulated output.
Tip #1 - remove the motor circuit RF suppression capacitors. They are generally located on the circuit board often right near were the motor leads are attached. Sometimes they are disc type, on most newer models they are PC board type. Removing them will lower the starting speed and lower the slowest operational speed. It will also correct problems with some brands of aftermarket decoders.
This mod is especially effective on the 2-8-0, but does improve EVERY loco, and I have now removed ALL such capacitors.
I do this to all brands of products that have such RF filters in place. In addition to Bachmann, I have found them on some Intermountain and Proto2000 DC versions.
Tip #2 - add weight to the tenders - if you run long trains or do lots of backing, or back whole trains into staging, this will vertually eliminate tender derailments while backing. Additionally it greatly improves electrical pickup and is one key step in eliminating problems with the tender to loco wires.
Some other brands also need weight, but this is mainly a Bachmann issue. I add about 2 oz to most all Bachmann tenders. It seems to have no negative effect on pulling power as it is less than the weight of one freight car.
Tip #3 - OK, now we get loco specific - Spectrum USRA Heavy 4-8-2 - I modify the drawbar by bending a "dip" into it as close to the loco end as possible - about 1/8" in length and depth. This provides better clearance for the wires, which plug in directly above the drawbar on this model, and shortens the drawbar slightly, which improves the locos appearance. I run all my locos close coupled as I have large curves, but this mod does not seem to effect the use of either position or decrease useable minimum radius.
Tip #4 - replacing Bachmann couplers with Kadee couplers - generally the coupler pockets are too shallow to allow Kadee's to drop in. To solve this I gently file down the shank of Kadee #148's until they fit - I never use generic couplers on anything.
Tip #5 - the previously Spectrum, now regular line 2-8-0 - I add a small amount of additional weight in the domes. Not sure it really helps much, but I feel better about it. I also remove the metal spring from the pilot truck. This does seem to show a measurable increase in pulling power, if only by a few cars.
Tip #6 - the new regular line 2-8-4 - it is very easy to add about 5 oz of weight to these and greatly improve their pulling power - I will try to get a picture up showing the boiler off and the weight added. Mine will pull 35 cars on level track after the added weight.
Tip #7 - tender swaps - the following is a copy of a post from some years ago on the Bachmann board regarding tender swaps. It contains most everything you need to know about Spectrum tender swaps and how to do them without major rewiring or moving/replacing circuit boards:
If anyone has other Bachmann tender swap questions, I can likely help, just ask. I have used Spectrum tenders behind a number of other brands of locos with good results as well.
This is quite long now, so I will leave it at this. Feel free to offer your thoughts or ask questions.
Sheldon
richg1998 TheK4Kid, Initially we did not realize your experience. Sounded like your first loco. I have some Spectrum steamers but none connect like the K4 you have. I have seen post where some have issues with BLI locos. I think steamers. I have two A/B sets but they are fine. Good luck. Rich
TheK4Kid, Initially we did not realize your experience. Sounded like your first loco.
I have some Spectrum steamers but none connect like the K4 you have.
I have seen post where some have issues with BLI locos. I think steamers.
I have two A/B sets but they are fine.
Good luck.
The close coupling equalizing drawbar has been used on the Spectrum K4, the new streamlined K4 discussed here, the N&W J, and the China SY Mikado.
There may have been others, but they would go back farther than the current Bachmann instruction data base. I seem to remember others for other manufacturers as well.
I suspect other Bachmann/Kader products sold in other parts of the world and not marketed directly by Bachmann USA also use this design. Possibly the China QJ 2-10-2 comes to mind.
I have a sizeable fleet of Spectrum steam locos, and as mentioned, have done a lot of kit bashing with them. I also have BLI and other brands.
I do not find BLI to be any better overall than Bachmann in the steam locomotive department. In fact, I have a list of BLI problem stories I could share, and I have way less BLI locos than Bachmann locos.
Yet my few Bachmann problems were easily fixed with minor mods or Bachmann warranty replacements.
Some years back I posted a thread on a series of very simple improvements to a number of Spectrum/Bachmann steamers.
Dollar for dollar, I will take a Bachmann any day.........much more bang for the buck.
But, regardless of brand, having worked in this business, and just like the OP having been at this hobby for 50 years, I'm not quick to throw any manufacturer "under the bus".
And that is my main reason for my replies to this thread.
These trains today are so much better, for so much less (inflation adjusted), how can we complain? But that's just my view........
BigDaddy Sheldon, just a video I found on youtube, that showed more than just the sound effects of the loco. I cannot vouch one way or the other for the videographers' expertise. I agree the OP was a little quick to criticize. With all due respect to yesterdays' International Woman's Day, most of us in the hobby aren't women and we don't read directions. I'm all for close coupling but following those instruction, the OP could not separate the chassis from the tender. Is it glued or painted shut or just not the right tools? Streamlined steam doesn't do anything for me, so I will never know how this works.
Sheldon, just a video I found on youtube, that showed more than just the sound effects of the loco. I cannot vouch one way or the other for the videographers' expertise.
I agree the OP was a little quick to criticize.
With all due respect to yesterdays' International Woman's Day, most of us in the hobby aren't women and we don't read directions. I'm all for close coupling but following those instruction, the OP could not separate the chassis from the tender. Is it glued or painted shut or just not the right tools?
Streamlined steam doesn't do anything for me, so I will never know how this works.
Having done extensive kit bashing on other Bachmann locos, easily 25 or 30 of them, and other brands like BLI, I suspect that in addition to the screws the tender shell also latches or "snaps" onto the floor, possibly requiring the sides to be spread slightly.
And again, in the past, most locos with these drawbars came factory assembled as one unit. But I have easily taken then apart and re-assembled them - like the N&W J.
I find it most amazing that waiting until Monday to get help from Bachmann was such an imposition......
PS - I suspected, so I just looked it up to be sure, the previous non streamlined K4 locos from Bachmann have this same drawbar - this is nothing new for that loco.
To all of you who tried to help me.
Thankyou ! :)
PS- I have now contacted Bachmann forums 4 times, and each time asked to be sent an activation email. So far , I have received nothing from them. My old username and password no longwer work either and it was only two months ago I used the site with no problems.
I really don't know what their technical problems are .
Sheldon, I have built over 20 kit steam engines, three brass ones, and a number of Bowser kits, and others and never having any problems.
I have three older Bachamnn Spectrum 4-6-2 K4 HO engines, and they all run fine.
One has TCS WOW sound.
They only lack strong pulling power.
I did manage to couple the tender to this streamline engine. It required moving one axle from each truck as the axles set direcxtly over the screw holes holding the body to to the tender frame.
I feel it was a lot of hassle to couple the tender to the engine.
My experience in HO scae goes back over 50 years.
I have built three layouts over time, one that entirely filled a two car garage.
I am also a licensed Indiana Radio and TV Technician and hold an electrical engineering degree, a HAM radio license and have built 5 HAM radios over the past 50 years.
I recently rebuilt a 1966 Zenith color TV for a neighbor of mine.
It required almost an entirely new wiring harness.
So I am no newbie when it comes to building things.
But once again thanks for all who offered help, it is appreciated!
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy ...and Ken Patterson thinks this is a fun hobby? A confirmation email should be a software thing and work 24/7. That said, not nearly as bad as Humana Pharmacy that sends me "important" emails about my prescriptions that require me to sign in. Once I sign in, I am dumped to the homepage with no clue as to where to find the subject of their email. The local pharmacy was just as bad: RX: "You have a prescription that needs to be refilled' Me: "What prescription?" Rx: "We can't tell you because of HIPA (a government privacy act) but you can guess" Me: "Your kidding" RX: "No" A RTR guy ought to be able to hook the engine to the tender without tools. Evidently, it is not designed that way. 5:37 into this video is a minor tip to do it. The reviewer predicts drawbars will be broken by some owners. That isn't any way to design a model. Some model railroaders are not modelers, some are modelers but not operators. I have bigger issues in life than that. Drinks are on me.
...and Ken Patterson thinks this is a fun hobby?
A confirmation email should be a software thing and work 24/7. That said, not nearly as bad as Humana Pharmacy that sends me "important" emails about my prescriptions that require me to sign in. Once I sign in, I am dumped to the homepage with no clue as to where to find the subject of their email.
The local pharmacy was just as bad:
A RTR guy ought to be able to hook the engine to the tender without tools. Evidently, it is not designed that way.
5:37 into this video is a minor tip to do it. The reviewer predicts drawbars will be broken by some owners. That isn't any way to design a model.
Some model railroaders are not modelers, some are modelers but not operators. I have bigger issues in life than that. Drinks are on me.
Henry, I took a few minutes and watched the video, I'm not a youtube fan......any hack with a video camera can pretent he knows something.......
Clearly the reviewer does not have the depth of experiance to even know why Bachmann used that design.
As I explained earlier, it keeps the loco close coupled on the straight for better appearance while allowing it to go around sharper curves. It works well on other locos it has been used on.
I noticed he found the hidden paperwork but did not bother to go thru it, at least not on his video, to see if the draw bar instructions were included?
His solution to the task is not what Bachmann recommends on the instructions linked earlier in this thread?
Do we really know the drawbar instructions are missing from these locos? Or just hidden under that insert just like the EM-1 and latter 2-6-6-2 packaging?
I know, every one of these locos needs to come with a DVD instruction video, because we all know reading things from paper is obsolete.......
Seems to me the OP was quick to blame Bachmann without giving them a chance - he should send it back. Not because it is junk, but because of his own built in bias.
I'm now more temped than ever to buy one, paint it grey and red, and letter it ATLANTIC CENTRAL..........and of course get rid of that pesky decoder and sound...
Not every product will be a fit for every modeler.
Not all that long ago all Proto2000 diesels came with the shells separate from the chassis?
Some diesels still come with delicate coupler installation needed.........
Personally, not just in model trains, I think a lot of people today have unrealistic expectations, but I'm old school about a lot of things......
But, maybe I should just spend my time elsewhere......
I don't read it as a tight screw problem. He got the screws out, but nothing comes apart. According to the video there is a layer that needs to be spread.
Here's the email address I was told to use to get the confirmation process moving:
webstore@bachmanntrains.com
800-356-3910
I can't seem to make it live. I guess I did!
Mike.
My You Tube
TheK4Kid I removed the screws from the bottom of the tender. It is so tight that I cannot get it to pop off , and Iam afraid I may break something. It's going back to Bachmann and they can keep their piece of junk! I'll buy a BLI steam engine instead
I removed the screws from the bottom of the tender.
It is so tight that I cannot get it to pop off , and Iam afraid I may break something.
It's going back to Bachmann and they can keep their piece of junk!
I'll buy a BLI steam engine instead
I do recall now discussing this with someone in the Bachmann forums that had a tight screw so I guess this is not unusuall.
Just do what you have to and make sure you document evrything in nice language and lt Bachmann know. Not every modeler has the proper experience. Even some hobby shops.
I am a retired mechanic and I am sure I could have done it and I would have used anti cam out on the screwdiver tip to prevent messing up the screw head if a tight screw. I did that once on something like this.
just an idle thought ...
the paper with instructions on how to hook up the drawbar ...
it wasn't under the bottom sheet with the other documentation ?
Thinking back on how I got into the forum, waiting for the confirmation, I called CS, and they told me to send an email to the store, and they would alert the people over there.
Something about " they'ed let Bob know", just a few minutes later I was on, with an email back from Bob. It seemed kind of strange for a site that you would think has thousands of members, I was told that it was not always monitored, as far as new members signing up.
i haven't used the ask in the forums [on the bachmann site] for a couple of years, but just went there and it logged me in ... no request for a credit card, ??
you just seem to have bad luck, well, good luck with the BLI
So because you lack the skills or experiance for this minor assembly that makes the loco a piece of junk?
OK, I get it, your not a model builder, your a RTR only sort of guy, that's fine.
Don't blame Bachmann, sorry they designed a product for different group of modelers........
I used the Bachmann link that was shown here.
Since this afternoon, 3 times they have failed to send an actiavtion link to my email. I checked to make sure I gave them the proper email. LIke I said 3 times and it is a NO GO.
POssibly they don't send out emails on the weekend.
As far as I am concerned I am DONE fooling with Bachmann, they can go pound sand!!!! :(
BigDaddy re-registrering and I can't get a confirmation email out of them.
I had that, I emailed the on-line store, explained things and got an email back right away saying it would be taked care of, which it was.
My password program thinks I registered, but Bachmann says I did not. I tried forgotted password and re-registrering and I can't get a confirmation email out of them.
But at no time was I asked for a credit card. It was good you didn't register at whatever that site was.
At one time I spent a lot of time on the Bachmann forum, it has always been a great forum. I simply cut back on all online forums.
I just went on the Bachmann forum and logged in with no problems?
TheK4Kid Mike, Thanks, I saw the instructions about removing or loosening the tender truck screws. Seems like a lot of work to couple the tender to the engine. I looked back through all the instructions that came with the engine, and this was not part of them. I'll take a look at the Bachmann forums. I don't know if I could modify this to a conventional draw bar without voiding the warranty. I have never seen this kind of a draw bar setup before on any HO steam engine and tender. I feel it is a very poor design. This is a very nice steam engine otherwise. Thanks for the help. The K4Kid
Mike,
Thanks, I saw the instructions about removing or loosening the tender truck screws.
Seems like a lot of work to couple the tender to the engine.
I looked back through all the instructions that came with the engine, and this was not part of them.
I'll take a look at the Bachmann forums.
I don't know if I could modify this to a conventional draw bar without voiding the warranty.
I have never seen this kind of a draw bar setup before on any HO steam engine and tender.
I feel it is a very poor design.
This is a very nice steam engine otherwise.
Thanks for the help.
You do not loosen the tender truck screws, there are screws in the floor that hold the tender body on. You loosen/remove them.
You think it's a bad design? Well it allows the loco and tender to stay close coupled for better appearance and still go around sharper curves. It works very well, it's not a new idea, you just never owned any of the other engines it has been used on.
Yes. That new decoder is top of the line for running and sound. If you do not like sound, just turn off the sound. Some do not like sound.
TheK4KidSorry Charlie, Bachmann can go pound sand!
I've used the Bachmann forums for years, very helpful.
Your opinion seems to be different.
Happy Model Railroading, Ed
richg1998 You must have had a hacked link. No one including me has ever been asked to use a credit card number to join. I have belonged for quite a few years. You better check your anti virus. Rich
You must have had a hacked link. No one including me has ever been asked to use a credit card number to join.
I have belonged for quite a few years. You better check your anti virus.
Ditto that, no fee to be on the Bachmann forum, the OP was on a scam site.
A few more thoughts:
Bachmann has used this drawbar design on a number of different locos over the last 20 years. Most did come with the tender attached in long skinny boxes - like the N&W J.
Maybe they decided this time a more normal box shape was desirable........?
But any hobby shop that could not fiqure it out is not some place I am going to rely on for information about his hobby........
Sure, Bachmann should have had that instruction sheet in the box, did you look under all the packaging? They did that once or twice before.......
I don't have the new streamlined K4, it is unlikely I would buy one (unless I decide to paint one up in my ATLANTIC CENTRAL colors, which I have considered), but I have a lot of Bachmann locos, and I am very happy with them.
Go ahead, send it back, do whatever makes you happy. But it seems pretty silly to miss out on this loco if you model PRR just because they left a piece of paper out of the box.
But what do I know, I'm one of those old guys who actually works on my model trains..........
From what I recall, https. not http. I saw discussions sometime ago. Not quite sure now.
Thanks Mike. He should get it. It worked fine for me. I signed in ok.