Real Dumb Newbee Question

[BRVRR]

I have a Bachmann NYC 'Niagara' 4-8-4. Its a great puller and runs smoothly at all speeds. My only gripe with the engine was a wrong (5015) road number. I changed the number with decals and installed a Digitrax DH163 decoder in the tender.
The grandson runs the wheels off of it almost daily. Haven't had any problems with it so far. It pulls 8-10 heavyweight passenger cars and 4-6 express reefers with no problem.
There is a picture or two on my website, steam engines page.

[twhite]

The locomotive in question IS a Santa Fe prototype, as that was the basis for Bachmann's 4-8-4 to begin with. However, they've stuck what looks like a Union Pacific semi-Vanderbuilt tender behind it, and painted the model for Union Pacific. So what you have, SpaceMouse, is a model of a 4-8-4 as originally built by Baldwin for the Santa Fe, but with a foreign tender and paint-job. I know it sounds confusing as all Heck, but that's the way some manufacturers work when they put together something that they think will 'sell'. The 4-8-4 is a popular wheel arrangement, and the Union Pacific seems to be a good-selling road to model, correct prototype or not. What the heck, put it on the track and enjoy it. I'd say that the instruction sheet you got for a "Niagara" is just a catch-all sheet for all of Bachmann's 4-8-4's, no matter WHAT the roadname.
Tom

[Jetrock]

My best guess is that Bachmann uses the same mechanism for the Niagra as it does for the FEF or any other 4-8-4(same wheel configuration, after all) and most likely just prints one standardized instruction sheet for all of them, and just happened to put "Niagra" on the instruction sheet (most likely it was the first one with that mechanism produced by Bachmann.)

[SpaceMouse]

Sorry to all Niagra lovers out there.

[cefinkjr]

Definitely NOT a Niagara. In fact, calling it a Niagara is an affront, an insult, libelous, and every other sort of nastiness (to a Niagara lover)! [:D]

Here's a picture of a working Niagara http://abpr.railfan.net/april99/04-09-99/nyc6012.jpg and one in an engine yard (where?) http://abpr.railfan.net/june98/06-21-98/nycnig.jpg. Such a pity that all Niagaras were scrapped. [:(]

Chuck

[SpaceMouse]

Thanks.

The parts manual says it is a Niagra 4-8-4. As I said I was pleasantly surprized. I was buying a "lot" of track in my mind. I figured the train was going to be something I resold. Certainly the transformer is not very good. and the rolling stock seems cheap. But the engine seems more solid, though id doesn't run that smoothly on EZ track with the transformer that came with my kid's Harry Potter set.

I have a friend with a bunch of trains stuff that is going to help me get a good engine to get started without of his collection. Once I know more about what I want, I'll start going after it. Like every other hobby a person gets into, you get what you think you want then you play with it until you figure out what you really want.

[Jetrock]

It looks like the locomotive included in Bachmann's "Overland Limited" train set (part number 00614.) It is NOT a Niagra, as mentioned above. If the person who sold you that couldn't tell Santa Fe from Union Pacific, they certainly wouldn't have known the difference between a UP FEF and a NYC Niagra.

As 4884bigboy pointed out, if that is in fact an FEF, then the period when the locomotive ran was 1939-1959.

One of the rules of something like eBay is "let the buyer beware": If you don't know what you're buying, you don't know what you're going to get. I heartily recommend that you take a little time to educate yourself about railroads and engines--a trip to a local library or the books section of your local hobby shop can provide you with the beginnings of your railroad education.

I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to discourage you here--I know you're excited to get your pike going--but, frankly, you're likely to finish a book or two about trains and be MORE excited about getting your pike going! A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, and more knowledge can feed more ideas and inspiration--and prevent spurious purchases.

It does look like a pretty engine--for the Midwest in the Forties and Fifties. It is a "train set" quality engine, so I don't suspect it is the most accurately modeled or the smoothest-running engine ever made--but it looks good in the photo.

Oh, another thing about hobby companies: They OFTEN sold locomotives that are lettered for railroads that never owned them. They learned long ago that just about anything with SP on it will sell in the West, anything with UP on it will sell in the Midwest, anything with NYC or Pennsy will sell in the East, and anything with a Santa Fe warbonnet will sell anywhere--regardless of whether the locomotive involved was ever owned by that railroad or even if that railroad was still around when the engine was built!

Let the buyer beware--and you're the buyer!

[SpaceMouse]

It is this one.

[Anonymous]

If it's a 4-8-4 with Union Pacific on the tender, it's not a Niagra. Union Pacific called it's 4-8-4s FEFs, or Four Eight Fours (4-8-4). They were built in 1939 and lasted until 1959.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

All I know is that it's certainly not going to fit very well on an 1880's Northern California layout...

I know. I know. But give me a break. I'ts my first loco and my kid hasn't evven given up the controls of his Hogwarts Express long enough to see if it even runs.

We got a 4x8 sheet down and a dual loop with a couple switches. He hasn't jumped the track in a while.

[Jetrock]

All I know is that it's certainly not going to fit very well on an 1880's Northern California layout...

[cefinkjr]

Chip:

"Niagara" was just one of the many, many names used for a 4-8-4 steam locomotive. As I mentioned in an earlier reply to another topic, there is probably no other wheel arrangement that had more different names than the 4-8-4. (Check http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/) for all of the known printable names.)

The most common name for a 4-8-4 was "Northern" in homage to the fact that the first 4-8-4s were built for the Northern Pacific. The New York Central had to be different and use the name "Niagara". (We always were a bunch of mavericks on the Central. [8D])

So why is your engine lettered for the Union Pacific? Simple. Bachmann is not too careful about properly lettering models and the Union Pacific name sells pretty well. I've never been able to understand why (being a former Central employee) but equipment lettered UP probably outsells equipment lettered New York Central. [V]

Incidentally, the 4-8-4 was also one of the most successful and most widely used steam locomotive type. (Although PRR never had one.) Originally intended as a heavy passenger locomotive, it could pay its way on fast freight too. Niagaras, though, ran only on passenger trains from Harmon (where trains from Grand Central lost their electric motors) and LaSalle Street Station in Chicago; refueling at Collinwood (Cleveland) and taking water on the fly at several locations.

So now you need a string of two tone gray and white smooth side passenger cars to follow your Niagara.

Chuck

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

I think Bachmann have offered a Santa Fe 4-8-4 - I suspect they offer the same chassis under the Niagara, the SP GS4 Daylight and GS4 "War Baby", so this may explain why your instructions are for a Niagara.

It could also be that a previous owner got some instruction sheets muddled - I have a Bachmann F7 bought used that came with the instructions for a GP40...

Bachmann DID offer both a SANTA FE 4-8-4 'Northern' and 2-10-4 'Texas' type, but they had 'cheezy' drives. Avoid!. Their subsequent releases of 4-8-4 'Niagras', and 'Daylight's'/ War Baby's (a gray/black GS-4 Daylight engine - not a GS-6) were much improved drives. The Santa Fe engines did not get the same upgrade because the original Bachmann body mold (same for 4-8-4 and 2-10-4) was broken.

Play with your Bachmann's, and When you are serious enough. determined enough, or rich enough. go buy a Broadway Ltd. Santa Fe or 2-10-4ty pe engine.

[SpaceMouse]

It has an oil tender and it has Union Pacific union pacific on the side.

I have NO DOUBT that it is a Niagra. Like I said. I just don't know anything about the 4-8-4 and I know just as much about the quality of the model.

[Charles D. Carter]

Look for the railroads road name on the tender. Chances are if it is a "Niagara" it will say New York Central and the tender wheel arrangement will most lokely be the "centepede" type (all wheels connected on a common truck assembly).
If it is a Santa Fe engine, it shoud say ATSF on the panel below the engineer / firemans window and have big bold numbers on the tender. The tender will most likely be an oil burning type (no coal load) as opposed to the NYC engine which will be coal fired.
Bowser makes a fine replacement drive chassis for this engine should it loose its performance or suddenly die out (like mine once did).

[SpaceMouse]

Hi,

This is definately a Niagra. I just know nothing about the train in history. I found the same train listed on InternetTrains.com for $84.85 Retail $112, but I know nothing of the quality of the train. IT is certainly better in that I expected a low end Santa Fe like the kind that goes on eBay for about $19.

[leighant]

The term "Santa Fe locomotive" could have two meanings. It could mean a model of a locomotive used by the Santa Fe railroad, any one of dozens of types of locomotives, steam and diesel. There was a type of locomotive, apparently first built for the Santa Fe railroad which came to be known as the "Santa Fe TYPE", a 2-10-2. That means two pilot wheels, ten driving wheels and two trailing wheels under the firebox. That way of classifying steam locomotives by their wheel arrangements is called the Whyte system, by the way. There is a third meaning of the term "Santa Fe locomotive" which might occur in model railroading. That is locomotive model which may not represent any kind of locomotive ever operated by the Santa Fe railroad, but because Santa Fe is a popular name, the model manufacturer has put the name "Santa Fe" on it.

The 4-8-4 wheel arrangement is usually called a "Northern"...but sometimes different railroads call that type by different names, as "Lehigh Railroad Railroad" said, it was called a Niagara on the New York Central.

The Santa Fe Northerns made through runs from Kansas City to Los Angeles with heavy passenger trains.

3751 class 3751-3765 built 1927-1929
3765 class 3765-3275 built 1938
3776 class 3776-3785 built 1941
2900 class 2900-2929 built 1943-44

For more info try www.atsfrr.org (Santa Fe Rwy Historical and Modelers Assn) and links therefore.

[Anonymous]

I think Bachmann have offered a Santa Fe 4-8-4 - I suspect they offer the same chassis under the Niagara, the SP GS4 Daylight and GS4 "War Baby", so this may explain why your instructions are for a Niagara.

It could also be that a previous owner got some instruction sheets muddled - I have a Bachmann F7 bought used that came with the instructions for a GP40...

[Anonymous]

If its a Niagara, Its a New York Central model...

[SpaceMouse]

I thought I was getting a Bachman Santa Fe Loco in an eBay box I got. Instead I got a Bachman 4-8-4.

I like the way it looks much better, but I know nothing of either the history behind the 4-8-4 (or even what it is called) nor do I know anything about the HO loco itself. Can you help out?

Maybe even ot a link that talks about the loco.

The parts sheet say Bachman Plus Niagra 4-8-4 and 52' tender with smoke.