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Brush Painting- What am I Doing wrong?

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Brush Painting- What am I Doing wrong?
Posted by Harrison on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:07 AM

Yesterday I painted my tranfer caboose, using craft paints. There are lots of brushmarks. Should I sand the paint off and get a can of Rattle-can spray paint, or try to find someone in the area who has an Airbrush? Would getting better paints help with brushmarks? I have a testors weathering paint set in the little glass bottles, I painted with those without any brushmarks.

Thanks,

Harrison

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Posted by PennCentral99 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:10 AM

Acrylic craft paints are thicker and different than the testors enamel paint. Try thinning the acrylic craft paint and try on a piece of scrap plastic 

Terry

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Posted by j. c. on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:21 AM

i thin craft paints with air brush medium to get a smother coat.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:23 AM

Like Terry said, thin it and practice, you’ll get it right eventually.  When you find you’re comfort spot crafters acrylics work very well.
 
 
Mel
 
 
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I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:26 AM

Along with what Terry suggest, a paint more formulated for plastic would give you better results, which is why the Testors are probably working better.

Craft paint might be fine for scenery type painting, or even buildings, and it can be sprayed with an airbrush, with thinning, by experimenting with distilled water and 71% or 91% alcohol as a thinner, to see what combination works best for the brand of paint your using.

I would remove the craft paint, and use a spray paint.  Krylon seems to work good with plastic.  Or if you have a hobby shop close by, Tamyia paints work good, spray cans or brush.  You need a paint that will "flow" and let brush marks settle out.

Mike.

EDIT:  Others posted while I typed, all with good advise!

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:29 AM

Craft paints are the only paint I use. Each bottle,color,brand, could be different.

I use window cleaner as thinner. I have found that the brush used is a huge factor.

I've come to learn that each brush will give different results.

I'm guessing you used the wrong brush with a too thick paint

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:31 AM

Not only the paint needs to be the right one for your endeavour, you also need to invest into a set of quality brushes! You can´t expect a quality job with cheap tools!

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:40 AM

Hi Harrison,

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1) You need to thin the paint. The best product ever made for thinning water soluable paints was "Thinner For Acrylic Paints by Delta Ceramcoat", but it is not made any longer. We used to call it Skill-In-A-Bottle for good reason. Do not thin paints with water, you will not get the best results. I have been trying products intended as airbrush thinners with OK results.

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2) You must use a good brush. I use Windsor & Newton Series 7 brushes. They are the best, but they are in a gray area legally, are expensive, and sometimes hard to locate. At minimum use a 100% pure Kolinsky Sable brush.

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3) Use Citadel or Vallejo paints. Cody's office this week actually has a section on where to find Vallejo paints. The pigment load in these paints is very high and ground very fine. The opacity is excellent even when thinned. They are durable and dry nicely.

.

If you want more information, just ask. I could go on about brush painting all day. My brush painting skills are superb, and I have all the awards you would ever need to back it up.

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Feel free to ask anything on this subject.

-Kevin

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Posted by NHTX on Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:42 AM

     Harrison, the thought of sanding off the craft paint is a bit drastic.  There is a strong possibility your detail could come off with the paint.  If possible try soaking the model in a paint remover formulated for plastics.  I have heard of using a Windex type glass cleaner to clean air brushes after spraying craft paint so, it may work on your model.  Let the model soak in it for half a day and then scrub gently with an old, soft bristled toothbrush.  The paint should lift off.  You may have to repeat two or three times so, be patient.

     What I know of craft paints is, they seem to be made for porous surfaces and are therefore very thick when compared to model paints.  Spray painting is favored among most builders because it can produce a thin uniform coat that does not obscure detail.  I've had better results with solvent-based paints because they can be thinned without beading up when brushed on a non-porous material such as plastic or metal.  I hope this helps and, your model turns out to your satisfaction.

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:11 AM

UNCLEBUTCH
I use window cleaner as thinner.

I've heard of that before, for thinning for airbrushing.  Never tried it.

Mike.

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Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:31 AM

Craft paints are strippable using ELO (did it several times), possibly alcohol as well (tried once with so-so results, too impatient so I used ELO to finish)

I tend to use craft for smaller detail brush painting rather than large expanses, so I can get away with thinning a bit with water vs Liquidex thinner.

As for Vallejo... Craft paint: 2oz (59ml) for 1.39 or so, vs. Vallejo (17ml) for 3.00 and up...

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:44 AM

Harrison

Yesterday I painted my tranfer caboose, using craft paints. There are lots of brushmarks. Should I sand the paint off and get a can of Rattle-can spray paint, or try to find someone in the area who has an Airbrush? Would getting better paints help with brushmarks? I have a testors weathering paint set in the little glass bottles, I painted with those without any brushmarks.

Thanks, 

It's true, it is possible to paint with a brush and not have them but I'm not experienced enough to know how to get away with no brush marks using a brush.  I did paint the ends of the flat car part of an autorack that should have been TT yellow but wasn't, and used a brush and it came out good, but being a narrow area that was inbetween the cars, I risked it and it worked out.

I would think if you are painting a surface that has wide flat area's like a train car, using an air brush would eliminate the risk of brush marks.  That is why I bought an air brush.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:56 AM

While I've not painted freight cars, I did brush painting with structures.  The first coat generated brush marks.  The got brushed over with a 2nd coat. 

Testors paint is quite expensive, but I use that for fine detail.  Painting a car with paint is probably easier, faster, and cheaper using spray paint. You can probably tamper down the paint with dull coat. Anyone use that approach for cars?

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, February 7, 2019 10:58 AM

riogrande5761
It's true, it is possible to paint with a brush and not have them but I'm not experienced enough to know how to get away with no brush marks using a brush

Jim,I use a quality brush and l "dry" brush the paint on since this doesn't leave brush marks. You will need paper towels to remove excessive paint from the brush and I clean the brush frequently to keep it from getting stiff and leaving those ugly brush marks..

I favor the old Polly S paints but,found Tru Color paint works.

Larry

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Posted by Harrison on Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:02 PM

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I have a testors weathering set, painted some plastic with some and no brushmarks. I will be getting a testors Red flat today at HobbyLobby. My mom doesn't like paint stripper, so will sand off the craft paint before using the good stuff.

Harrison

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:06 PM

Does anyone know if craft paint will come off with isopropyl alcohol?  That might be more acceptable to moms.

Henry

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:09 PM

You could also try a strong cleaning solution that your mom has around the house, it might soften the paint enough to remove easily,  like 409 or Fantastic.

Worth a try.

Mike.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:59 PM

SeeYou190
Windsor & Newton Series 7 brushes. They are the best, but they are in a gray area legally,

What does that mean?  Are the handles made from mari-ju-wana bush stems?

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Posted by PennCentral99 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 1:34 PM

BigDaddy

Does anyone know if craft paint will come off with isopropyl alcohol?  That might be more acceptable to moms.

if he didn't seal it, it should wash off with warm, soapy water. Leaving it soak for a few minutes should help, then a light scrubbing with a toothbrush should take it off.

as far as rubbing alcohol, I've had success with soaking the item in 91% alcohol for 24 hours, then removing the sealer and paint with a toothbrush. Other success stories vary.

Terry

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Posted by Eilif on Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:11 PM

I highly recommend against sanding off the paint.  You will loose detail and it probably won't even get it all off. 

Craft paints that aren't sealed will come off easy with an overnight soak in purple power or Castrol Super clean degreasers.  I've stripped hundreds of acrylic painted miniatures with these chemicals

Other possibilities that you might already have at home to safely strip plastic.

-Rubbing alcohol

-Simple Green

-"LA's Totaly Awesome" concentrated degreaser (sold at dollar tree)

-PineSol, but don't leave it in too long as it can attack the plastic over time.

-Even putting it in a strong degreasing soap like dawn or laundry detergent overnight will proabably loosen it enough that you can just take an old toothbrush and rub off the paint.

As to your original question regarding craft paint, the advice of folks here has been pretty much spot-on. I use craft paint for alot of things (especially weathering and terrain) but for surfaces I want to be nice and smooth and I don't necessarily plan on weathering I head to the hardware store and buy a can of spray paint.  There's a ridiculously good range of affordable, reliable satin finish colors at most hardware stores.

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Posted by PennCentral99 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 2:58 PM

Oh, keep forgetting....if you don't have scraps of styrene, you can get a 48 pack of plastic spoons at the dollar store to use as practice for your brush stroke and experimenting with the thinning of your paints.

For thinning acrylics, I've had good results using Liquitex brand thinners

Terry

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Posted by garya on Thursday, February 7, 2019 3:26 PM

BigDaddy

Does anyone know if craft paint will come off with isopropyl alcohol?  That might be more acceptable to moms.

 

Yes it will.  91% will take it right off.  70% may work, too.

Gary

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Posted by Harrison on Thursday, February 7, 2019 5:05 PM

Got the testors paint. Just stripped the car using 91% Alcohol, took alot of rubbing, could be because I put on 7 coats of paint.HmmSmile, Wink & GrinOops - Sign. After dinner I will be painting it with the testors.

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, February 7, 2019 5:45 PM

maxman

 

 
SeeYou190
Windsor & Newton Series 7 brushes. They are the best, but they are in a gray area legally,

 

What does that mean?  Are the handles made from mari-ju-wana bush stems?

 

It, apparently, has to do with the actual fur used in the bristles and the interaction of various export certificates with endangered species treaties.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 5:52 PM

maxman

 

 
SeeYou190
Windsor & Newton Series 7 brushes. They are the best, but they are in a gray area legally,

 

What does that mean?  Are the handles made from mari-ju-wana bush stems?

 

.

The Windsor and Newton Series 7 brushes are made from very select furs from a weasel that has various protections under international treaties and trade agreements.

.

These weasels also need to be harvested in Russia, which adds even more complication. Issues with dealing in animal  fur also come into play.

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They are available, but not all the time, and not from all suppliers.

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Like Daco Strong decal setting solution, sometimes you just need to go around the front door and mail order from a small brick and mortar hobby shop in Europe.

.

Like Cuban Cigars, once you have tried them, nothing else will ever be good enough. Sometimes it seems Cuban Cigars are easier to get than paint brushes and decal setting solution.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, February 7, 2019 5:57 PM

Some have had positive things to say about the Harbor Freight airbrush.  I used one when I had to send my Badger back for warranty repair (after 20 years)  I didn't particularly care for it, but it got the job done and money is money.  You shouldn't buy what you can't afford. 

Henry

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Posted by Harrison on Thursday, February 7, 2019 8:20 PM

I painted it with the testors enamel paint, it worked a lot better. I think one more coat will do it, then on to the roof and details.

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Thursday, February 7, 2019 8:25 PM

Harrison,

Two comments that echo what has been said:

Use better paint for this - citadel, Vallejo, testors, etc. they go on much smoother when thinned and they cover better. I have always used the best paint I can afford because the cost of painting is your time- for our uses, a bottle of paint can last a long time, making the cost easier to manage.

The standard method for this type of painting is to use an airbrush. The coats go on thinner, cover better and ultimately you have more control over the final finish. On a smooth, flat surface it is very hard to get a smooth, thin coat with a brush. When you get the paint thin enough to lie down, you need lots of coats to cover and it gets too thick. BTW: I brush paint all the time. For this work, I use an airbrush.

Good luck with the project,

Guy 

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Posted by Harrison on Friday, February 8, 2019 8:11 AM

Ok- I put the seccond coat on, looking a lot better.

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

My YouTube

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 8, 2019 8:22 AM

Can't wait to see it!

Mike.

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