Kadee coupler for athearn boxcars?

[tstage]

SeeYou190

tstage

 

Kevin, If it's a link to a forum thread => Add a bracketed url at the beginning of the link and a bracketed /url at the end.

Thank you Tom. I will try that next time.

I have been using the "insert link" button in the tool bar with no luck.

-Kevin

Kevin,

The insert/edit link button only works on non-MR forum links.  If it's from the forum then the bracketed urls work like a charm...

Tom

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

As far as ready to run cars and coupler height... watch wheel size.  I had a mess of Walthers center beams and checked the couplers.  They were all too low.

Then I saw the lettering on the car end and saw that they should have 36" wheels.  The model had 33" wheels.

Once I put in 36" wheels, the couplers were perfect.

 

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

If you look closely, on most Athearn BB underframes the frame outside the bolsters droops down slightly, forcing the coupler pocket too low.  Dip the frame in boiling water for a few seconds to soften it and then weight it to raise the pockets.

Of course, as said above, Kadees work best in Kadee boxes.  But I've got a ton of BBs with No. 5s in the Athearn box.

 

 

[Eilif]

Just one more vote for the #148's or #5's.  I've got a ton of BB's of various types with either of those and they almost all work quite well.  If you've got a smidge of droop because of a loose box, you can always shim the inside box (or just the bottom of the metal cover at the opening). If it's just too low, then washers should  do the trick.   None of that is a big deal and I've never felt the need to install KD boxes or new/modified frames on BB rolling stock.

I prefer #148's because of ease of installation and while I've considered smaller scale versions, I like the wider tolerances of the oversized coupler.

[BRAKIE]

BN7150

I never trust Athearn's underfloor.In the box cars, replace couplers including the draft gears.

Judging by your photo I can see you didn't straighten the weight or frame when you built the kit.

These are important steps in building BB kits if you want to obtain correct coupler height.

For such a simple kit there was a lot of  necessary steps involved.

 

[SeeYou190]

tstage

Kevin, If it's a link to a forum thread => Add a bracketed url at the beginning of the link and a bracketed /url at the end

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Thank you Tom. I will try that next time.

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I have been using the "insert link" button in the tool bar with no luck.

.

-Kevin

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[hon30critter]

Like several others, I have found that almost all of my BB cars had couplers that were too low. Using a #27 would not have worked on many of the cars because the coupler heights varied. I have had to use different combinations of the Kadee washers to get all the couplers to the proper height. Some people suggest that you should not use more than one washer but I have never had a problem even when I had to use two reds and a gray on the same post. If the screw head fits the truck properly the truck can't wander around.

Something that I have found frequently is that the end of the pivot post on the bolster has been flared by having the screw turned down tight enough to jamb it up against the post. The flared end prevents the Kadee washers from slipping over the post. Unfortunately most of the truck screws have to be tightened to or past this point in order to reduce the truck wobble. It is possible to trim a slight bit off the end of the post, but I found it easier to simply use a pair of side cutters to cut the washer on one side, thus allowing it to fit over the flared post. The washer sits flat once it is past the flare.

One thing that is worth mentioning is accuracy of the assembly of the cars. In many cases I found that the underframe was warped with the result that the coupler pocket was drooping. There was a gap between the floor and the coupler box. If the coupler boxes do not sit tight against the floor using washers is not the correct solution. In many cases I had to glue the coupler boxes to the floor in order to get them positioned properly.  You may still need a washer or a #27 to raise the body once the coupler pockets are in place, but if the pocket is sagging you will need a bunch of washers to fix the problem which is obviously a sloppy way to address the issue.

Dave

 

[riogrande5761]

BigDaddy

Get a Kadee coupler height gauge.

Would Athearn BB car be uniformly incorrect?  Evidently it was consistent enough for Kadee to make the recommendation.

Back in the 80s and 90s I build quite a few blue box Athearn kits and KDs were consistantantly low.  MDC as well.  

[tstage]

SeeYou190

I posted a thread on the process here --> http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx

I cannot figure out how to make links clickable!

Kevin,

If it's a link to a forum thread => Add a bracketed url at the beginning of the link and a bracketed /url at the end of the link and the result should be this:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx

Tom

[dstarr]

IDRick

I have been using #5 couplers on my athearn BB freight cars but haven't consistently checked coupler height with the Kadee gauge.  Kadee says that old athearn BB cars require a #27 rather than a #5.  What is an old BB car?  Most of mine were purchased in the 90's but no clue when they were actually produced.  Should purchase a supply of #27 couplers?  Have you found it necessary to use 27's?

 

 

   BB is short for Blue Box, the widely distributed Athearn "shake-the-box" kits.  Athearn got bought some years ago, and shortly afterwards stopped selling BB kits, must have been around 2010 or so.  All the Blue Box kits had the Kadee #5 (industry standard) coupler come out a bit low.   A couple of #6 flat washers from the hardware store under each truck would bring the #5 couplers up to height.  My freight car fleet must be nearly 100 BB cars and every single one of them has washers under the trucks. 

  I made a coupler height gauge from a block of softwood with a coupler screwed on top.  I used the NMRA gauge to adjust my homebrew height gauge to the proper height.  After building a kit and installing #5 Kadees , I alway checked it against my height gauge and added washers under the trucks if required.  All the Athearn freight cars required washers. 

[tin can]

I've got several Barkley's boxes full of Athearn blue box "runners."  All of them have #5s; most have original coupler clips (tweeked a little to fit tighter) and the Kadee fiberboard washers on the truck bolsters to get coupler height right.

 

[j. c.]

KaDee makes it easy to tell what coupler to use https://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc.htm 

[csxns]

IDRick

Have you found it necessary to use 27's?

On the first run of the Walthers Centerbeam's and Athearn blue box AC4400CW's and Dash 9's.

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

    All Athearn blue box car kits are old. They stopped making them a long time ago. I know it's hard to believe that it is already 2019. The 1990s were a long time ago but it seems like it was just yesterday.
    I have several dozen Athearn blue box cars. I always just use Kadee #5 couplers in them. The air hoses do hang a little low so I always bend them up a little bit before installing them.
    As for the height of the coupler itself, compared to the height gauge I always considered them to be ok. I do allow some variance. If the coupler is a little low I think it is ok because it will mate with ones that are the perfect height. But if a coupler is too high then it won’t mate with the ones which are too low and will uncouple when the train hits a grade.

[doctorwayne]

I don't recall ever having a problem with Kadee #5s on any Athearn car, but I aso never had any issues with Athearn's clip-on covers, either:  if they didn't snap into place, a little simple re-bending of the sides so that they're 90º to the bottom did the trick.
I did use Central Valley floors and underframes....

...on these modified Athearn boxcars...

....but only because I couldn't be bothered doing the brake gear in separate parts, as it would be well-hidden by the cars' sidesills.

Wayne

[BN7150]

I never trust Athearn's underfloor.
In the box cars, replace couplers including the draft gears.

 

 

[mbinsewi]

The problem I had was from using the Kadee's in the coupler box that was on the car, along with the metal clip-on cover.  The coupler tended to "droop" because the Kadee coupler was thinner than the horn hook. Same with Athearn BB locos.

Once I started to use the #242 box, it was all good.

Some cars may need the underset or overset shank to align up.  I typically would shim the box as need to get proper alignment, as an alternative to keeping the different couplers on hand.

And yes, it is a good idea to get in the practice of testing all rolling stock, along with locomotives, even if it's right out of the box.

The other end of the Kadee coupler gauge, the end with out the coupler on it, is used to check the height of the car body, so you know if you need to shim, or not.

As much of a needed tool as the standards gauge is.

Mike.

EDIT:  Kevin, there are a couple of hoops you need to jump through to link back to the forums.  I do it just so I stay in practice.

 http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx

Mike.

[SeeYou190]

mbinsewi

I use the 148 whisker coupler for just about everything, along with the #242 box.

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Nothing works better than a Kadee coupler in a Kadee coupler box. I agree 100%.

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It is easy to modify an Athearn car to take a Kadee coupler box.

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I posted a thread on the process here: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx

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Thank you Tom for teaching me how to make links clickable!

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-Kevin

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[drciesel]

IDRick

I am curious, is there an old versus new distinction between BB rolling stock?  If so, what is (are) the distinguishing characteristic(s) between old versus new?

Yes, I believe their is a disctinction although I can't pinpoint when the change took place.  I have a couple of Blue Box box cars with separate grab irons/ladders as opposed to the molded on type associated with most BB kits. I suspect this occured just prior to the roll-out of the RTR line.

[IDRick]

Hat tip, well said Henry!

[BigDaddy]

Get a Kadee coupler height gauge.  I can name 3 youtube reviewers that routinely check coupler height on new rolling stock and it's frequently wrong.

We are talking modern models, built to a much higher standard of detail, and cost, and still they can't get coupler height correct.  One side may be correct and the other off.  The point is you don't know unless you measure.  

Would Athearn BB car be uniformly incorrect?  Evidently it was consistent enough for Kadee to make the recommendation.

[IDRick]

mbinsewi

I use the 148 whisker coupler for just about everything, along with the #242 box.

https://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page148.htm

It looks like the #27 is the medium underset shank, which raises the coupler head a tiny bit.  If thats what your coupler gage is showing you need, than use it.

You could also use the 147 as that has the whiskers, so you don't need to use the brass spring plate. 

I'm by far not a coupler expert, but the 148 has worked for me.  I might get some of the 147's just to have them for that stubborn car that just won't line up.

Just my take on it.

Mike.

EDIT:  Tom's 158's would be good too, closer to scale than the 148.

 

 

Somehow back in the 90's, I read the kadee table and felt I needed to purchase #28 couplers.  I have several packages but never tried adding them to any rolling stock...  I do need to get another height guage and do some testing...

[IDRick]

tstage

Rick,

BB = Blue Box, or Athearn's "shake 'n the box" kits.

I don't have any BB kits so I stick with Kadee #58s or #158s for all my rolling stock because they are more to scale than the #5s

Tom

 

 

I used BB abbreviation intentionally as it is a commonly known abbreviation but spelling it out is helpful for those that don't know it.  I am curious, is there an old versus new distinction between BB rolling stock?  If so, what is (are) the distinguishing characteristic(s) between old versus new?

[mbinsewi]

I use the 148 whisker coupler for just about everything, along with the #242 box.

https://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page148.htm

It looks like the #27 is the medium underset shank, which raises the coupler head a tiny bit.  If thats what your coupler gage is showing you need, than use it.

You could also use the 147 as that has the whiskers, so you don't need to use the brass spring plate. 

I'm by far not a coupler expert, but the 148 has worked for me.  I might get some of the 147's just to have them for that stubborn car that just won't line up.

Just my take on it.

Mike.

EDIT:  Tom's 158's would be good too, closer to scale than the 148.

[tstage]

Rick,

BB = Blue Box, or Athearn's "shake 'n the box" kits.

I don't have any BB kits so I stick with Kadee #58s or #158s for all my rolling stock because they are more to scale than the #5s

Tom

[IDRick]

I have been using #5 couplers on my athearn BB freight cars but haven't consistently checked coupler height with the Kadee gauge.  Kadee says that old athearn BB cars require a #27 rather than a #5.  What is an old BB car?  Most of mine were purchased in the 90's but no clue when they were actually produced.  Should purchase a supply of #27 couplers?  Have you found it necessary to use 27's?